Linux-Advocacy Digest #656, Volume #33 Tue, 17 Apr 01 03:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft (Peter da Silva)
Re: Blame it all on Microsoft (Peter da Silva)
Re: Microsoft gets hard ("JS PL")
Re: A mentality problem of linux programmer. ("Kelsey Bjarnason")
Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ? (Charles Lyttle)
Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised ("Scott R. Godin")
Re: Why left-wing communist assholes hate Reagan. (was Re: Communism, ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Who votes for Sliverdick to be executed: AYEs:3 NAYS:0 (1 ABSTAIN) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant (Peter da Silva)
Re: Who votes for Sliverdick to be executed: AYEs:4 NAYS:0 (1 ABSTAIN) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: To Eric FunkenBush (Donn Miller)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: 13 Apr 2001 13:36:04 GMT
Our experience in going from Windows 9x to Windows NT on the desktop is that
we significantly reduced the "my computer's doing something funny" calls. Our
experience with Windows 2000 is less positive.
It seems like the more Microsoft merges NT and Windows 9x, the more NT acts
like Windows 9x. NT3.51 was more solid and stable than NT4, and even though it
provided fewer of the 9x APIs we kept using it for quite some time after NT4
came out... what really drove us to upgrade was when they dropped support for
NT3 in new versions of Office. We had a couple of NT3.51 servers for our
domain controllers until we shut them down as part of our y2k placebo
upgrades.
We have one user who has Win2k because he's got these specialised printers,
and cameras and things, so we need the USB support. We're always having to
poke at his system to keep things working. The desktop/browser integration
stuff is particularly problematic... we have a corrupted .INF file somewhere,
so the add/remove programs dialog crashes, but even removing all the .INF files
and associated registry keys doesn't help... a subset of them keeps getting
recreated and that subset includes the broken data.
What is the benefit to having a browser interface in add/remove programs? The
new dialog provides no more functionality than the old, it's MUCH slower (it
can take minutes to come up on 'mere' 400-500 MHz boxes with a lot of installed
programs), and it's less reliable.
I'm afraid that Windows XP is going to make things worse still. I don't want
to see our support load get back up where it was with Windows 9x, where we
were reduced to reinstalling Windows on some user's machines on a regular
basis. Windows NT was a decent, stable, if perhaps a little boring, desktop
OS. I want that back.
If I were the Judge, and I had to come up with conduct restrictions that could
actually provide relief, I would require Microsoft continue support for all
their old operating systems in any software they produce, and support for their
old software in all new OSes. That would provide immediate and direct benefits
to people like me who have to support a collection of vertical market software
with a huge variety of vintages, and also remove their main incentive for
breaking APIs.
--
`-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.theory,comp.arch,comp.object
Subject: Re: Blame it all on Microsoft
Date: 13 Apr 2001 13:41:59 GMT
In article <9b58mv$du2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Joseph T. Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Today Linux or FreeBSD make a far better desktop environment than
> NT/2000, now that the critical applications every business needs
> (including office suites and Java/JavaScript capable browsers for
> corporate Intranet applications).
I wish that were true. Unfortunately unless you move the whole company over to
open protocols and interfaces everyone needs to run Windows anyway. At work
my Windows desktop is mostly an X terminal that happens to run Lotus Notes
and our timecard software locally, for example.
> Users generally aren't terribly productive for the days and weeks that
> it typically takes for them to restore their configuration and work
> environment, reinstall software, restore files (if anyone was backing
> them up - and you'd be amazed how many companies, even among the very
> largest, never bother backing up individual users' local data
> directories or encourage them to use backed-up network drives).
This is why we have always tried very hard to avoid reinstalling PCs, and
why we haven't moved to Windows 2000 yet.
--
`-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
From: "JS PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.arch,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Microsoft gets hard
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 01:42:06 -0400
"David Ehrens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:aFHC6.18762$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "JS PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> ...
> > That looks pretty proportional to their claim of 32,000 worldwide!
>
> Microsoft partners include companies who have several MS-certified
> (MCSE, MCP, MSD) employees on staff, or who at one point were interested
> in riding the Microsoft wave. I am one of the many former "paper"
> partners that MS had at one point. The advantages to these programs were
> minimal, aside from the legitimacy that certification confers on
> individual technicians. For instance, we had to pay distributor prices
> 5-10x higher than Compaq, Dell, and Gateway for product, were
> continually beat up by educational "partners" who were selling product
> illegally at academic discount prices, and as a company outside an urban
> hub, were routinely passed over (in referrals) in favor of preferred
> partners in major cities, in some cases in other states. It was a big
> disappointment. I know others who bailed out of various MS programs.
>
> I don't care if Microsoft can prove they have 500,000,000 partners.
> Their allegiances lie with companies in their size and weight class, not
> small consulting or integration outfits.
So before we get away from the assinine Linvocate statement that "there is
ONE word for a Microsoft Business partner, extinct"
Since you actually are or "were" classified as a Microsoft Business Partner,
I can safely assume that your now "extinct" like the other 32,000 that he
claims are now extinct, since all business partners of Microsoft are
supposedly EXTINCT? Or could it be that there are really NO business
partners who are extinct, or such a small percentage that it mirrors the
natural rate of extinction?
You see, it's these stupid assed statements that will be the death of Linux.
Normally when someone is choosing between two people to do business with,
they WON'T choose the guy that's bad mouthing and making proposterous
statements against the competitor. Statements like, "there's one word
for......." show nothing but immaturity and poor judgement. Not good
qualities.
------------------------------
From: "Kelsey Bjarnason" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A mentality problem of linux programmer.
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 05:46:33 GMT
In article <9bfbi9$dvo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Henry_Barta"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kelsey Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> [snips]
>
>> Well, let's tke the wife as an example here.
>
>> She's been using a computer for, oh, 5 years give or take. She plays
>> games, does word processing, does web design, updates user lists,
>> tracks order processing, all the sorts of things a user needs to (or
>> wants to) do. She hasn't got a clue how to set an environment
>> variable. Why would she? In her entire computing experience, she has
>> never, once, had a need to do so.
>
>> Why would "even the most ignorant user" know how to do something they
>> have never had a single reason to do?
>
> From the original article"
>
> "We have just finished a commercial product (a C/C++ SDK)"
>
> Would "even the most ignorant user" expect your wife to be using a
> C/C++ SDK?
Nope - but then one wouldn't expect A C or C++ developer to be amongst
the most ignorant users, either.
------------------------------
From: Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Could Linux be used in this factory environment ?
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 06:17:14 GMT
Monte Milanuk wrote:
>
> Charles Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > However there are a number of manufacturers who make PC equals for the
> > factory floor. They are much lower cost than traditional factory
> > hardware, especially HP or Sun systems. These systems cost lots more
> > than CompUSA trash, but still are cost effective, *IF* they have a good
> > OS loaded. Linux does have competitors in this market, QNX being one.
> > But the cost of a single BSOD is high enough to keep Windows out.
>
> I'm not so sure about that. When I left a steel mill in early 1999, the big
> thing the automation vendors were starting to push was 'SoftPLC', where the
> idea was that for normal stuff that doesn't require high speed i/o and
> distributed processing, rather than having dedicated racks of special
> processors, they could have cards connected to an x86 PC and have the CPU do
> the crunching -- kinda like a Winmodem, but a WinPLC, since the operating
> system they were touting for this task was WinNT4. Scary.
>
> Monte
I don't understand your comment. "SoftPLC" does run on x86 type
computers, but no factory I know is going to use consumer class PCs
running Windows. Think what could happen in your steel mill if a BSOD
stops everything in the middle of a pour. There are lots of PC type
modules for factories. PC-104 is just one standard form factor for
industrial use. There are lots of industrial OS around that can handle
industrial operations. Linux is just one of several.
--
Russ Lyttle
"World Domination through Penguin Power"
The Universal Automotive Testset Project at
<http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
------------------------------
From: "Scott R. Godin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft should be feared and despised
Date: 17 Apr 2001 06:17:16 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| Said Scott R. Godin in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 9 Apr 2001 13:36:29
| GMT;
| >In article <9aqr1b$r6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Joseph T. Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| >wrote:
| >
| > | BTW: many conservatives openly call for class warfare as well. I'm
| > | not defending them. To a libertarian, both ideologies have some
| > | serious issues.
| >
| >heh :j noticed that, have you?
|
| Now if only this didn't sound like simple naive arrogance; to either,
| libertarians have serious ideological issues.
Of course.. I thought that was obvious. Ever watched a discussion
between all three? Oy vey. :-)
--
send mail to webmaster (at) webdragon (dot) net instead of the above address.
this is to prevent spamming. e-mail reply-to's have been altered
to prevent scan software from extracting my address for the purpose
of spamming me, which I hate with a passion bordering on obsession.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Why left-wing communist assholes hate Reagan. (was Re: Communism,
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 02:41:18 -0400
Bloody Viking wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> : Great money
> : Low cost of living.
>
> Don't know about the cost of living in Detroit (pronounced as "daytwah" in
> French). But the cost of living around Chicago is high.
>
Chicago is about 2x-3x that of Detroit.
California is about 5x Detroit.
> What I discovered is that housing prices are about a constant but square
> footage will vary. That is, you can move to Norman Oklahoma but you still pasy
> $150L for a home though it's a bigger one. In my case, PRICE is the
> make-or-break item, not square footage. $150K is simply too much. When the
> price is too high, the square footage becomes a moot point.
Being in the IT field with good non-Mafia$oft skills, if you're not
pulling down $60K/year, you're selling yourself short.
Check out http://www.dice.com/ and http://www.monster.com/
>
> --
> FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
> The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
> The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Who votes for Sliverdick to be executed: AYEs:3 NAYS:0 (1 ABSTAIN)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 02:47:13 -0400
"Gunner �" wrote:
>
> On Mon, 16 Apr 2001 20:33:44 -0500, "David L. Moffitt"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >%%%% AYE!!!!
> >
> >"Rob Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >> Re:
> >>
> >> "Let's take a nice, Glen "Sliverdick" Yeadon style pure-democratic
> >> vote:
> >>
> >> All for putting Glen "Sliverdick" Yeadon up against the wall, and
> >> filling him full of lead, say "AYE!" All opposed, say "NAY"
> >>
> >> Let's see how much Sliverdick likes democracy now."
> >>
> >> > AYES:3
> >> > NAYS:0
> >>
> >> ABSTAIN:1
> >>
> >> An example of the dangers of pure democracy is all well and good,
> >> but I reject pure democracy even if Glen advocates it and wouldn't
> >> vote either way on the matter; there is no moral justification for
> >> the action or the mass decision behind it.
> >>
> >> _
> >> Rob Robertson
>
> Hummm Ayes:4
> Nays:0
> Abst:1
> Two more ayes and we have enough for the firing party.
Notice who "professor" Scott Erb won't even cast a "NAY" vote to
save Sliverdick.
I wonder why.
>
> Gunner
>
> >
>
> "So it was that four hours later, carrying two hundred cigarettes, completely drunk
>and with a
> half-naked, unmarried Filipino lady, I emerged, behind the writing desk in the
>Headmaster's
> study-simultaneously breaking a hundred and twenty-seven school rules. The Chaplain,
>now
> seventy-four and impatient to get his Archbishopric, had finished the tunnel just a
>hundred yards
> too early."
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter da Silva)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.arch
Subject: Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant
Date: 17 Apr 2001 06:25:24 GMT
In article <u4PC6.4121$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Each process can't address more than 4GB at a time. With VLM extensions a
> process can address up to 64GB.
Just like an 8086 addressing >1MB.
--
`-_-' In hoc signo hack, Peter da Silva.
'U` "A well-rounded geek should be able to geek about anything."
-- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Disclaimer: WWFD?
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles,alt.society.liberalism,talk.politics.guns
Subject: Re: Who votes for Sliverdick to be executed: AYEs:4 NAYS:0 (1 ABSTAIN)
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 02:37:18 -0400
"David L. Moffitt" wrote:
>
> %%%% AYE!!!!
>
> "Rob Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > Re:
> >
> > "Let's take a nice, Glen "Sliverdick" Yeadon style pure-democratic
> > vote:
> >
> > All for putting Glen "Sliverdick" Yeadon up against the wall, and
> > filling him full of lead, say "AYE!" All opposed, say "NAY"
> >
> > Let's see how much Sliverdick likes democracy now."
> >
> > > AYES:3
> > > NAYS:0
> >
> > ABSTAIN:1
> >
> > An example of the dangers of pure democracy is all well and good,
> > but I reject pure democracy even if Glen advocates it and wouldn't
> > vote either way on the matter; there is no moral justification for
> > the action or the mass decision behind it.
> >
> > _
> > Rob Robertson
AYE: 4
NAY: 0
ABSTAIN: 1
Doesn't ANYBODY like Sliverdick?
Hey, Sliverdick...not even your body Scott Erb will vote in your
favor? Or maybe he doesn't want to get on the bad side of the
majority in this little democratic society.
Hehehehhehe
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 03:07:32 -0400
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: To Eric FunkenBush
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> "Chronos Tachyon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> message news:SVKC6.28287$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > This conveniently skirts the fact that, in C, an #include is usually
> > harmless both to compile time and binary size.
>
> Not true. Put 3000 #includes in your program and see if it takes the same
> amount of time to compile as without them.
This is true; both the C and C++ compilers use the same C
pre-processor. So, the pre-processing stage should take the same amount
of time. What is taking all the time is the C++ compiler itself, which
would be cc1plus, as compared to cc1 for C.
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