Linux-Advocacy Digest #741, Volume #31 Fri, 26 Jan 01 03:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: Getting first W2K server ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Microsoft "INNOVATES" again! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Comparison: Installing W2K and Linux 2.4 ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Comparison: Installing W2K and Linux 2.4 ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Comparison: Installing W2K and Linux 2.4 ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Windows 2000 (Steve Mading)
Re: Microsoft is fired. ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Getting first W2K server (Perry Pip)
Re: Poor Linux (Steve Mading)
Re: What really burns the Winvocates here... (Marten Kemp)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Getting first W2K server
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 01:55:52 -0500
"Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> > Forget that. You'll be coming into work at all hours of the day, now.
>
> MCSEs on a four-hour minimum for callouts say that's what they like best
> about Windows shops. Salaried employees, or employees that like to have a
> life outside working hours, aren't nearly so fond of it.
>
Which is why, whenever I interview, I make it clear:
I will not take responsibility for the operation of ANY Microsoft product.
And the usual response is: "smart man."
> Bobby Bryant
> Austin, Texas
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft "INNOVATES" again!
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:00:43 -0500
Mig wrote:
>
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> > Sorry, Whistler has always had a theming system. The new shell is
> > something different, but includes the existing Whistler Theming support.
> >
> > You can see screenshots here:
> >
> > http://whistler.aptik.com/cgi-bin/gallery/gallery.cgi?Category=3
> >
> > Pay close attention to this one, which shows theming in action:
> >
> http://whistler.aptik.com/cgi-bin/gallery/show.cgi?Pic=Screen004.gif&cat=3&p
> > age=1
>
> It look pretty much like something i have seen on Gnome before (probably
> some sawmill theme - http://thems.org). Poor Microsoft... finally they have
I think you mean http://themes.org/
http://thems.org is Tri-Hospital EMS
> X windowmanger style decorations.. it just took them at least 6 years. If
> they want any respect then they hopefully concentrate on configurability
> and not just themability.
Uh...what...you mean...changing colors won't win...but..but..but..
..it took Bill almost a DECADE to figure it out....damn...
> The wizard looks like KDE's wizard - kandalf - maybe KDE should do
> something about it unless KDE "stole" kandalf from somewhere else
>
> > You really should read what you're commenting about.
> >
> > From the article:
> >
> > > One tester said Microsoft is changing the Whistler desktop interface by
> > > introducing some type of "extensible shell," or graphical user
> > > interface,
> > based
> > > on Microsoft .Net.
> >
> > This is the real change, not the fact that it's themeable.
>
> Hopefully this is the configurabily thing i would like to see... X desktops
> & Windowsmanagers dont have this (Well Enlighenment and Sawmill has it but
> its difficult to utilize) ready for ordinary enduser usage
>
> --
> Cheers
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Comparison: Installing W2K and Linux 2.4
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:05:50 -0500
ono wrote:
>
> > Maybe I am being a little harsh. Early Win2000 betas were slow too, but
> from
> > what I saw there is no reason on Earth why any intelligent person would
> > "upgrade" from Win2K to Whistler. I'd bet it might go over with those
> > running WinME, but I doubt many people who run Win2K will waste their time
> > and money on it.
> I heard that they want to put the cd-burner into the os. It's about time
> they do something about that. I had it with shoving out money for stupid
> burner-software upgrades.
> What I heard too ist that they want to charge money for IE6 (don't have a
> link). It makes almost sense to charge money for it as there is no more
> competition (ns beeing almost as dead as a dodo and opera having 0% of the
> market).
With all due respect, putting a CD-burner INTO the kernal is about the
dumbest idea I've ever heard of...
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Comparison: Installing W2K and Linux 2.4
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:06:51 -0500
J Sloan wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:30:59 GMT, "Chad Myers"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >The Windows user will be productive in a matter of minutes, the Linux
> > >one? Well, try back in a few days.
> > >
> > >-Chad
> >
> > If he's not at the console, check the "reading room". Good chance he
> > is in there with a pile of How-To's and forgot to come out.
>
> Actually, this sort of nonsense indicates that you have
> never used Linux.
>
> Log in, then click on the program you want to run.
>
> Does that really sound too difficult for you?
>
But but but but....the bitmaps are different.
> jjs
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Comparison: Installing W2K and Linux 2.4
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:07:27 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:09:52 GMT, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Does that really sound too difficult for you?
> >
> >jjs
>
> You're dreaming.
Strange...the newbie detailers in the automotive industry seem to
figure it out just fine.
>
> Flatfish
> Why do they call it a flatfish?
> Remove the ++++ to reply.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000
Date: 26 Jan 2001 07:06:41 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Steve Mading wrote:
:>
:> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> : Steve Mading wrote:
:> :>
:> :> T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> :> : Said Steve Mading in comp.os.linux.advocacy on 23 Jan 2001 19:42:17 GMT;
:> :> :>
:> :> :>Actually, I think the reason for it is that the only reason Windows
:> :> :>is popular at all is because of all the applications that are only
:> :> :>released for Windows and nothing else, not because the OS itself is
:> :> :>all that spectacular. Therefore, porting the OS to other platforms
:> :> :>would be usless unless MS could get all the third-party application
:> :> :>developers to make all of their software for non-intel platforms
:> :> :>also. If ONLY Windows and maybe Office ran on platform Foo, but
:> :> :>nothing else did, nobody would want it. MS discovered this, and stopped
:> :> :>trying to support other platforms. Of course they falsely attributed
:> :> :>this to people being uninterested in other platforms, when in fact
:> :> :>they *would* be interested if the Windows world hadn't been
:> :> :>monoplatform for so long that all the app developers forgot how to
:> :> :>program cross-platform code. (Consider how Corel ported WP 2000
:> :> :>to Linux - by using Wine instead of actually doing a real port.)
:> :> :>
:> :>
:> :> : Coincidentally, immediately after Microsoft bought a big stake in the
:> :> : company, IIRC.
:> :>
:> :> I got a copy of Corel WP 2000 for Linux *before* MS bought that
:> :> large sum of stock in Corel.
:>
:> : Was it a native port, or something to run on Wine?
:>
:> Wine. My point is that you can't blame the MS buyout for
:> the decision to use the Wine solution. The work was already
:> done to make the Wine solution before that happened.
: Why would they port to Wine when they already had a native Unix solution
: for close to 10 years
The Unix version had not been updated in a while. It was a choice
between porting the modern version from Windows to Linux vs
updating an older Unix version that hadn't been touched for
a few years. Keep in mind that the people who made that Unix
version didn't work at Corel, they worked at the (now defunct)
WordPerfect Corp - which was probably a part of the reason for
dropping the Unix version - Corel didn't have people trained
in Unix programming. Granted, a good programmer can transition
to an unfamiliar OS, but that's not how beurocratic organizations
think - they turn down people for having the wrong buzzwords on
their resumes.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft is fired.
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:09:40 -0500
"Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
>
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> > Hmm.. according to the press release, it was a configuration error.
>
> Hmmm... They're having trouble again today. It sure takes MS a long time to
> fix configuration errors.
>
What do you expect when all you've got are MCSE's to figure it out.
[It's not like an MCSE is as worthless as a junior high diploma or somethin......]
> Bobby Bryant
> Austin, Texas
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip)
Subject: Re: Getting first W2K server
Date: 26 Jan 2001 07:39:56 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Wed, 24 Jan 2001 23:52:04 -0600,
Bobby D. Bryant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I should have also said in my other post ("not just Microsoft"), that if your
>company buys the wrong thing and it doesn't work as advertised, standard
>practice is to blame the technical staff for sabotaging it.
>
Now that's funny....look who Microsoft is blaming for their own web site woes:
http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/computing/01/25/microsoft.web.sites.reut/index.html
"It was an operational error and not the result of any issue with
Microsoft or third-party products nor the security of our networks,"
Microsoft said in a statement released late on Wednesday.
Perry
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Poor Linux
Date: 26 Jan 2001 07:24:04 GMT
Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Steve Mading wrote:
:>
:> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:>
:> : Read Bach's book "The Design of the Unix Operating System"
:>
:> : There's a section on the Unix processes scheduler.
:>
:> : The algorithm is both insanely simple AND wickedly efficient.
:>
:> : I believe the word is "elegance"
:>
:> But we have to admit that there is one really big flaw in the
:> scheduling technique used: the busy-loop problem. If you make
:> a program that gets stuck in a loop that has no I/O, then it
:> gets an absurd amount of CPU time that brings everything else
:> to a crawl after a while.
: Nope. The scheduler has a 32-bit quantity associated with
: every process.
: When a process hits the CPU, the high bit is set.
: Every so often (1 millisecond or so), this value is right-shifted.
: Scheduling goes like this:
: Start out with most urgent "nice" value.
: Of those processes which are NOT waiting on an event, select among
: those processes in which the high-order bit is still 0...looking
: for the one which has the LOWEST value.
: When all "not waiting on an event" processes at this nice level have
: run, the scheduler proceeds to the next nice level.
: simple, elegant, and efficient.
Then explain why the following program gets 99% CPU usage, and
then brings the system to a crawl (so that when I type the
kill command to get rid of it it takes a few minutes to
respond, and pay attention to my keystrokes.) I'd really like
to know if this is something settable in the scheduler that I
can fix. (Now, keep in mind that the program has to be left
running for several hours before it will start affecting the
performance that badly. The longer it is running, the more
CPU time gets assigned to it.)
/* Program to suck 99% of the CPU time: */
int main( int c, argv **v)
{
int x = 0x0000ffff;
while(x) /* X is always nonzero, but making it a variable
* like this prevents the compiler from noticing
* that I'm deliberately building an infinite loop,
* so it doesn't complain to me.
*/
{
x = ~x; /* Silly statement so the loop actually
* does something and the compiler doesn't
* try to optimize the loop out of existance.
*/
}
return 0;
}
Compile and run the above program, then wait a few hours.
Disclaimer: Don't do it on a production system, and no
fair setting ulimit beforehand of time to manually cap the
CPU usage - let the scheduler try to figure out what to do
with it on its own.
This has been a problem I've seen on HP/UX, Irix, and Linux. I
haven't tested it on anything else lately so I can't speak
for Solaris or FreeBSD or AIX off the top of my head.
------------------------------
From: Marten Kemp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What really burns the Winvocates here...
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 07:52:10 GMT
Kevin Ford wrote:
>
> Pete Goodwin once wrote:
> >
> >Is easier to install than Windows? No it isn't!
> >
>
> I don't understand this argument. To me how easy it is to install an o/s
> is about 100 times less important than being able to trust it to stay up
> and be reliable and efficient.
Unfortunately, the vast herd of microcomputer users have enough problems
with those 'extremely complicated' apps. Why do you think that all the
manufacturers came to ship preloaded systems? The users put up with
fragile and inefficient versions of Win$tuff because they don't know any
better and have no interest in "becoming geeks."
One possible reason for why Linuxophiles sometimes have a hard time
convincing outsiders about the joys of a superior OS is that the average
IQ is only 100. New things and technical challenges require a large
amount of abstract thought and those who are capable of this are baffled
by those whose VCRs always flash 12:00. *That's* why installation is a
big deal; because there are large numbers of people who just don't get
the point and actively resist efforts to teach them.
Just my 2 dinars' worth.
-- Marten Kemp
------------------------------
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