Linux-Advocacy Digest #183, Volume #32 Wed, 14 Feb 01 01:13:04 EST
Contents:
Re: RH7/3Com and 3Com Mini PCI Ethernet adapter (J Sloan)
Re: Linux Threat: non-existant (J Sloan)
Re: Answer this if you can... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux Threat: non-existant (J Sloan)
Re: Interesting article (J Sloan)
Re: Windows XP! Will it really be reliable?
Re: The Wintrolls (Joseph)
Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?) (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Answer this if you can... (J Sloan)
Re: Whistler, yet another Windows push. (J Sloan)
Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?) (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: I just realized why Google bought Deja.com ("Me")
Microsoft plans lend further aid to open source OSes (Ray Chason)
Re: Microsoft plans lend further aid to open source OSes ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: I just realized why Google bought Deja.com (Glenn Knickerbocker)
Re: The Windows guy. (Marten Kemp)
Re: Windows XP! Will it really be reliable? (Ralph Miguel Hansen)
Re: The Windows guy. (Ralph Miguel Hansen)
Wednesday 14 February 2001: Ari Jort Englishes Bash; Damian Conway Latins Perl
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc,redhat.networking.general
Subject: Re: RH7/3Com and 3Com Mini PCI Ethernet adapter
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:11:20 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:04:24 -0800, "Guillermo Auad" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >I have RHat 7.0 installed on my IBM thinkpad and when I type
> >
> >% ifconfig eth0 (or eth1)
> >
> >it does not find the card. The card, a 3Com 10/100 PCI Mini Ethernet
> >adapter works properly when I boot Windows 2000 on the same laptop.
> >
> >Any ideas? please, reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >thx.
>
> Yea.
> Run Windows instead of Linsux .
>
> Or, do without your hardware like most Linux users.
Sorry flatfish, he wasn't asking for lame ass jokes -
The laptop no doubt came with windows, he is asking
for some info on getting the pcmcia ethernet card up
and running in Linux.
ifconfig won't load the drivers for the ethernet card
unless they have been made known to the system.
Check the file /etc/modules.conf and see if there is
a line containing the string "eth".
If not, the module has to be configured -
The Red Hat web site has excellent documentation
on this, as does the install guide that comes with RH.
If in doubt, consult one of the linux help groups -
jjs
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:13:41 GMT
Jan Johanson wrote:
> "Charlie Ebert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > The current estimate of Linux users world wide is 12% of the
> > total PC user population. Thank you!
>
> You're off a little, it's 1.2%
Actually, it could be argued that Linux users world wide
constitute 0% of the pc user population, since Linux is
not a pc operating system, but rather a Unix operating
system, which can also run on the same garden variety
hardware that pc operating systems are limited to.
jjs
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: 14 Feb 2001 04:13:42 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> It's almost impossible to by a crappy monitor now days. Even the worst
> aren't that bad and the norm is .28 so what is your point?
> Windows looks fine on every monitor I have ever seen it on and linux
> does not, without tweaking that is.
> I would also suspect that more people have decent monitors than crappy
> ones because the crap ones would have died by now so it makes sense to
> make the default 100dpi, or at least include a card in the box that
> says "If your fonts suck, try this".
> How many "Why does Netscape look so lousy?" posts are there in the
> Linux groups?
> They have entire web pages devoted to that topic, so there must be a
> problem.
> But, typical of the Penguinista you try and deny and reason around
> what seems obvious to the rest of the world.
So on top of spending 200 dollars for windows, you have to go spend
300 dollars for a monitor it will work with.
Neat.
=====.
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:16:41 GMT
Chad Myers wrote:
> It's a fad. Scooters have been around for many years now
> and only recently they have become super popular. But, like Linux,
> they're new-found popularity will fad and it will be put back
> on the back shelves just like every other fad to come up.
(yawn)....
this is getting boring....
jjs
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:18:41 GMT
Chad Myers wrote:
> "chrisv" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
> > LOL! Right. It's got NOTHING to do with it being the best tool for
> > the job...
>
> In many cases, it's not, but don't tell a Unix blockhead or a
> penguinista that!
Chad continues spewing insults and calling names.
Do tell, chad, if linux is just a fad, why are you so threatened?
What motivtates you to haunt the Linux advocacy forums?
jjs
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows XP! Will it really be reliable?
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:19:25 GMT
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:02:11 GMT, Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:07:53 -0500, jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>I just saw a news piece on Windows XP!
>>>Microsoft claims that it can run for days
>>>without crashing! Anyone have any real
>>>world experience with Windows XP?
>>>Is it really reliable?
>>
>>Just days? Hardwired russian apple II clones were more reliable.
>>
>>Bill gates deserves a house that burns to the ground every few days.
>
>What's totally hillarious about XP being announced is that
>Windows 2000 professional was a total flop in the sales
>department.
>
>There are thousands of companies who are setting on NT for
>two reasons. #1, it would simply cost them too much to
>buy new PC's and upgrade. #2. They don't want to buy
>32 bit CPU's when they know 64 bit is on the way.
>
>I think #2 is poetic justice for Microsoft and Intel
>as they both decided to delay the release of this
>technology even though Linux has a 64 bit OS already
>tested and ready for use.
64 bits operating systems are extreme overkill (have you any idea how big 2^64
is?) for anything but corporate databases... *large* corporate databases.
The only thing that makes 2^64 look anything but mind boggling huge is MS's
bloatwear. They'll need that address space just for their 3D dancing
paperclips.
P.S. 2^64 == 18,446,744,073,709,551,616
------------------------------
From: Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Wintrolls
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:30:21 GMT
Deepak Chandrashekar wrote:
> I think this thread is 100% pure unadultrated bullshit.
> Everyone knows that Windowzblowz is complete crap
> when it comes to robustness and uptime !!
>
> So if is for such apps. then go get Linux/Unix or something.
> Else, if u want to use some "kiddie" application such as MS-Word
> then .......
>
>
> ---------------------------->>>>>
> I dont want to pay M$ Tax
> <<<<<---------------------------
>
> Deepak
>
>
>
Kiddie application? Although there are many applications that are of
questionable quality on Windows, Word is not one of them. Word is one of
the best "office" word processing applications in the market. By office I
mean common everyday business document creation not special purpose
scientific or engineering documents which may require special notations.
Using this requirement yardstick MS-Word far exceed anything in the market
in terms of ease of use and functionality. Think about office documents.
What are actually needed? Maybe some nice fonts, bulleted lists, mail
merge, simple formating such as bolding, italics or underlining...
All these tasks are all easily done on Word.
---
JoE uSeR
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:31:46 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, T. Max Devlin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:53:36 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Said The Ghost In The Machine in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 11 Feb
> [...]
>>Soft links can specify absolute or relative pathnames, [...]
>
>Wow! I did not know this. I always figured all soft links were
>absolute, and never imagined that they might be able to point to a
>relative path. Wouldn't that be a potential admin problem?
It may depend on what one's doing. At the end of the day, of course,
they have to resolve to a hard filename, however (or, at least, to
a (writable and searchable) directory/name pair, if one wants to creat()
a file, rather than open()ing it) -- and there is also a limit on how
many links one can read through, to break stupid a -> "b", b -> "a" - type
loops and other such silliness. (It's not an elegant solution, but it's
an easily-implementable one.)
Also, chroot() cannot be defeated in such a simplistic fashion.
If one chroots("/a/b/c"), and /a/b/c/d is a symbolic link to "../../e",
one gets /a/b/c/e, not /a/e. (Disclaimer: I haven't tried it.
But '..' has a specific meaning in Unix/Linux; one could easily
doctor '/a/b/c/..' to point to '/a/b/c' instead of '/a/b' during
name resolution. Frankly, I'd have to look to make sure Linux is
doing it properly -- but if it's not, that's a serious (and very very
obvious!) breach of security. Unix has had chroot() for a long time;
this is an unlikely bug. Note that one can't chroot(".."), either, and
expect it to work, for the same reason.)
As for admistrating links -- if one has write access to the directory
containing the symbolic link, one can change it; if one has read
access, one can read it (I think); if one has search (x) access,
one can go through it during name resolution. These privileges are
identical to those accessing a file, directory, named pipe, socket,
or device; however, a complication steps in as the system also has to
check to see if the object pointed to exists, and what permissions it has.
However, that's only if one wants to "open" the link -- note that
stat() will attempt to gather statistics on the object the soft link
points to; use lstat() if one wants to gather statistics on the
soft link itself.
It's not clear who owns a soft link, if anyone; it may depend on the file
system. Note that hard links are merely additional directory entries
for a file, directory, named pipe, etc.; the filesystem maintains a
"link count" (how many other objects reference this one) which can
be picked up in st_link via stat(), but otherwise doesn't treat hard
links specially. However, hardlinks cannot cross volumes. (Side note:
older Unices did not allow hardlinks to directories without superuser
privileges, to avoid stupid a -> "b", b -> a - type hard link loops.
Modern Unices may not have such a restriction -- a simple test is to see
if, when one does 'ln x y', if x is a descendant of y, creating a loop.
Directory hardlinks are rarely, if ever, used nowadays.)
If a symbolic link crosses volumes, and one changes mountpoint
pathnames or privileges, things can break. Usually, this isn't a big
problem, although Unix-style softlinks lack the ability to have a program
(Explorer? Findfile? What?) look for where they moved. Whether this
is a serious problem is questionable; in Unix, the user has to know what
he's doing. One can work around this in various ways, of course;
the simplest conceptually is to have an ancillary database and periodic
rescans of some sort -- assuming the iconic viewer even worries about it,
as opposed to simply showing it as a symbolic link and somehow warning
the user if it breaks (HP-UX's CDE, for example, has a "broken-chain"
icon for just such a purpose).
>
>--
>T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 9d:18h:39m actually running Linux.
Use the source, Luke.
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Answer this if you can...
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:31:43 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Do you think the Penguinista's actually believe everything they say?
Define "penguinistas" -
If you mean Linux advocates, I'd say they generally do.
>
> Do you think they are telling the truth when they claim they have no
> troubles with "fill in the blank" when others are complaining about
> it?
Absolutely - For instance, I'm happily scanning pictures
left and right into my new HP 5200 C usb scanner, even
though claire/steve/flatfish claimed it couldn't be done.
> A full install, especially with SuSE 6.4 has all kinds of inetd
> services running and the ports are wide open.
Let's see, the current release of SuSE is what, 7.1?
> Win98SE and Win2k have them all shut down, although previous versions
> left Netbios among others wide open.
What do you mean, "shut down"?
Unix services aren't even available on windoze, except
for port of some basic ones like ftp.
> The Linux users due in part to their penny pinching are going to help
> Linux self exterminate.
Penny pinching, that's a good one - I enjoy racking up
the bills on good hardware and good Linux apps and
distros.
Just doing my part, ma'm.
jjs
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler, yet another Windows push.
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:37:21 GMT
chrisv wrote:
> Semantics. The point is, the software is not available on Linux.
All these things are consequences of microsoft's long
monopoly on the desktop - of course there is a lot of
windows pc software that hasn't been ported to other
platforms - but I'd rather not be part of the problem, so
I look for alternatives, and I always ask vendors about a
Linux version if I'm interested in their software.
Slowly, things are changing.
jjs
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NTFS Limitations (Was: RE: Red hat becoming illegal?)
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:38:08 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Charlie Ebert
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:34:14 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>In article <tKAh6.11200$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chad Myers wrote:
>>Pet peeve, really. I'm sick and tired of you idiots belittling .NET
>>when you really have no clue AT ALL what you're talking about.
>>Perhaps you should read just a LITTLE and then attempt to talk
>>intelligently about it. Until then, please refrain from speaking
>>from your ass.
>>
>>-Chad
>
>Okay. Corners everybody. We are not respecting Chad's space here.
>Your stomping all over Chad's .net concept and it's hurting his feelings.
>
>We have to remember to respect our fellow man.
>
>Now Chad. Isn't that better. Is your Pet Peeve better.
I didn't know there was such an animal.
Is it furry or naked? Does it have sharp teeth and claws?
Does it jump on top of people, or just genteely curl in one's lap?
Does it swim? fly? walk? grovel? dance? bounce? drool? pant?
go "splat" when one throws it against a window?
And, most importantly, does it come from Alpha Centauri?
:-)
[.sigsnip]
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 9d:19h:07m actually running Linux.
>>> Make Signatures Fast! <<<
------------------------------
From: "Me" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.religion.kibology,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: I just realized why Google bought Deja.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:49:10 GMT
"Leeb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> You know, I betcha the fine folks at Google are going to grep Usenet
> posts for URLs and use them as pointers to stuff on the Web.
They could do that for free.
------------------------------
From: Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Microsoft plans lend further aid to open source OSes
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 05:12:08 -0000
http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2657517,00.html
So, you won't be able to run your programs on Windoze unless Microsoft
says its OK. Seems a perfectly good reason not to run Windoze.
--
--------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Delenda est Windoze
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Microsoft plans lend further aid to open source OSes
Date: 14 Feb 2001 05:24:15 GMT
Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2657517,00.html
> So, you won't be able to run your programs on Windoze unless Microsoft
> says its OK. Seems a perfectly good reason not to run Windoze.
I stopped running windows altogether when I bought a dreamcast.
Next on the list is a playstation II, and if I keep this sort of habit
up, there will never been a reason to run windows ever again.
=====.
------------------------------
From: Glenn Knickerbocker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.religion.kibology,misc.invest.stocks
Subject: Re: I just realized why Google bought Deja.com
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 05:40:06 GMT
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:49:10 GMT, Me wrote:
>"Leeb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> You know, I betcha the fine folks at Google are going to grep Usenet
>> posts for URLs and use them as pointers to stuff on the Web.
>They could do that for free.
Ah, but they'd only get current links that way. Everybody knows web links
get more valuable as they age.
"Let's go and worship all the things that COULD be true."
�R http://www.bestweb.net/~notr/cosmic \\ --Wayne Delia, who
went to Florida and left me to clean up his problems at work.
------------------------------
From: Marten Kemp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Windows guy.
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 05:43:50 GMT
mlw wrote:
>
> I got a co-worker that is big into Windows. He complains that Windows has all
> the tools he needs and Linux is too primitive. He is sure that Windows does all
> he needs.
>
> He is working on a Linux web server. He wants to do a global replace in VI. I
> tell him to use sed. He whines a bit, then tries it. I hear from his cube.
> "Sweet!"
>
> Just a few more incidents like this and he will start to think his Windows
> platform isn't so easy to use.
>
> The people that say Windows is easier to use haven't put the effort in to
> learning some simple tools. Like a person that has an adjustable open-end
> wrench and knows nothing about socket wrenches. Life is simpler with one
> wrench, sure, but work is easier with a wide selection of tools.
>
> --
> http://www.mohawksoft.com
Great similie, wish I had thought of it. I once described using QNX on a
20mHz 386 with 4mb as trying to work on phillips-headed screws with a
flat-headed screwdriver. I rather disliked *nix OSes for a LONG time
after that.
-- Marten Kemp
------------------------------
From: Ralph Miguel Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows XP! Will it really be reliable?
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 06:55:16 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:07:53 -0500, jtnews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>> >I just saw a news piece on Windows XP!
>> >Microsoft claims that it can run for days
>> >without crashing! Anyone have any real
>> >world experience with Windows XP?
>> >Is it really reliable?
>>
>> Just days? Hardwired russian apple II clones were more reliable.
>>
>> Bill gates deserves a house that burns to the ground every few days.
>
> THAT would be funny!
>
You monster. He gave us the wintrolls.
Cheers
Ralph Miguel Hansen
Using S.u.S.E. 5.3 and SuSE 7.0
------------------------------
From: Ralph Miguel Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Windows guy.
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 06:51:16 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mlw wrote:
>
sweet
>
> The people that say Windows is easier to use haven't put the effort in to
> learning some simple tools. Like a person that has an adjustable open-end
> wrench and knows nothing about socket wrenches. Life is simpler with one
> wrench, sure, but work is easier with a wide selection of tools.
>
Right. Think how easy to set up a LAN with NT4 Bugfix 6 and how hard it is
to keep it running.
Cheers
Ralph Miguel Hansen
Using S.u.S.E. 5.3 and SuSE 7.0
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Wednesday 14 February 2001: Ari Jort Englishes Bash; Damian Conway Latins Perl
Date: 14 Feb 2001 01:04:27 -0500
Wednesday 14 February 2001 Ari Jort will speak at the Beginners Group.
Wednesday 14 February 2001 Damian Conway will speak at the Perl Mongers.
Both official notices are stuck on the end/appended.
Jay Sulzberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Corresponding Secretary LXNY
LXNY is New York's Free Computing Organization.
http://www.lxny.org
<blockquote
edit-level="light">
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Tomorrow's(WED 2/14)Gnubies (GNU/Linux/Free OS Beginners) Meeting
We are pleased to announce that on Wednesday, February 14, 2001 (yes that
is Valentine's Day) Ari Jort will be our speaker/expert at the GNUbies
(GNU/Linux/Free OS Beginners) meeting. His topic will be "Fun and Learning
with the Bash Shell". Ari is currently an engineer with VA Linux who "fell
in love with the shell eight years ago." He is also the VP of NYLUG (the
New York Linux Users Group). Having seen him clearly explain complex things
about Linux to true beginners before, I believe the meeting should be
informative and interesting. As always, the meeting is free and open to
the public.
Details:
Wednesday, February 14, 2001
6:30 Q&A
7:00 Ari Jort
on
Fun and Learning with the Bash Shell
at
CALC/Canterbury, 780 Third Ave., C-1
i n New York City
Please follow the following link below the announcement on our web page
(www.gnubies.org or www.eskimo.org/~lo/linux)
if you are planning to attend:
The link is repeated here for your convenience.
http://www.eskimo.com/~lo/linux/FEB1ariattend.html
We hope to see you there.
Lyn Ohira
GNUbies
(The GNU/Linux/Free OS Beginners Group in New York City)
</blockquote>
<blockquote
edit-level="light">
From: David H. Adler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Damian's talk next week -- at AMNH!
We have gotten very lucky all of a sudden.
The American Museum of Natural History has been good enough to give us the
use of one of their theatres for Damian's talk next wednesday.
Details:
Damian Conway speaks on Lingua::Romana::Perligata
AMNH - Linder Theatre
7-9pm, Wednesday the 14th of February.
I suggest everyone try to show up on time, as damian tends to do a good
deal of talking and we'll want to get as much of that in before they throw
us out. :-)
Directions and information about the museum can be found at
http://www.amnh.org/welcome/admission.html
(although there is no admission for this event).
Everyone will have to come in the security entrance, on the first floor,
Central Park West side, down the driveway UNDER the main stairway. The
Linder Theater is on the same floor.
Fortunately the museum is located within reach of food and such, to which
we should be adjourning to afterwards.
Many thanks to the Museum for allowing us to use their facilities, and a
particular thank you to Rachel Rawlings for making this happen.
See you all there!
dha
--
David H. Adler - <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
The Teletubbies are coming to America.
They must be stopped!
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</blockquote>
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
