Linux-Advocacy Digest #193, Volume #32 Wed, 14 Feb 01 16:13:07 EST
Contents:
Re: RH7/3Com and 3Com Mini PCI Ethernet adapter (Chris Webster)
Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
Re: Linux and the 21st Century Boom - Re: Wy Linux will/is failing on the desktop
Re: Ethernet card for UNIX/Linux ("Joel Barnett")
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
Re: Good article
Re: Interesting article (The Ghost In The Machine)
Re: Linux and the 21st Century Boom - Re: Wy Linux will/is failing on the desktop
("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Microsoft plans lend further aid to open source OSes (Nigel)
Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: linux is dieing (Aaron Kulkis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Chris Webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.misc,redhat.networking.general
Subject: Re: RH7/3Com and 3Com Mini PCI Ethernet adapter
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:06:31 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:21:04 -0700, Chris Webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Yea.
> >> Run Windows instead of Linsux .
> >>
> >> Or, do without your hardware like most Linux users.
>
> I have been using a USB keyboard, mouse and joystick for 12 months.
>
> I have been using fully suppported 3D gaming cards of various kinds
> for over 2 years.
>
> I have been using a flatbed scanner and video overlay card for
> over 2 years.
>
> What is it that I'm supposed to be missing?
Just Winmodems, if that's considered a flaw.... ;^)
--Chris
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:11:21 -0000
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 04:02:12 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
>on Tue, 13 Feb 2001 01:07:05 -0000
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:33:22 +0000, pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>>Lloyd Llewellyn wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > It's kind of ironic. Every time we do a 'apt-get dist-upgrade' to get a
>>>> > new version of debian, Wintrolls have to *pay* for a new version of
>>>> > Windows. The higher sales figures they are bragging about are a direct
>>>> > result of them being forced to make more purchases. What a laugh!!
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it's very ironic that Windows enthusiasts keep bringing up how much
>>>> money MS has managed to extort from the market as a result of its
>>>> monopoly.
>>>
>>>All true - but remember - M$ is a monopoly because they
>>>sold what people wanted to buy at a time when the alternatives
>>>were crap. You could arue that
>>
>> This is simply delusional.
>>
>> At no point in time has Microsoft bested it's competitors
>> technically.
>
>A business need not best its competitors technically. It can
>outmarket them, for example.
"when the alternatives were crap" is purely bullshit.
Until 1995, Microsoft was at a distinct disadvantage to
just about every other OS on the market. This is especially
true relative to Macintosh. This "gap" was even wider in
the 80's when Microsoft didn't even have a viable desktop
shell.
Until 1995, it was MS-DOS versus Macintosh.
>
>That said -- some of Microsoft's tactics for establishing market
>dominance are at best questionable; the notion of banning a browser
>from an initially-installed desktop because "it damages the OS"
>is laughable! (Or would be, if they weren't so damned serious about
>it at the time.)
>
>One thing they did do more or less legitimately -- although even
>here there are some questionable tactics (cf the magical "DR-DOS"
>beta error message, and the strange encryption done on some of
>their code), is that they leveraged their DOS dominance into
>Windows dominance. They then leveraged their Windows dominance
>into Win95 dominance.
>
>I'm not sure how they dominated in the DOS world, admittedly.
>DOS wasn't all that hot. (Maybe IBM helped; I forget now.)
>
>> Try and demonstrate otherwise, in actual
>> detail rather than simply by empty rhetoric.
>>
>> Microsoft sold what people thought most other people used.
>> The vendorlock you allude to existed as early as 1988, more
>> than a decade ago, and prior to the existence of ANY useful
>> version of Windows.
>>
>> Microsoft was subjecting people to DOS driver installs and
>> manual memory management as late as the 2nd half of 1995.
>
>Not to mention those HORRID protocol stacks. UGH!
>Win95 was bad, but it improved on that. (Mind you, that's
>not saying a heck of a lot.)
>
>>
>>>1. OS is a natural monopoly
>
>Bullshit. The mere fact that there are/were a fair number of operating
>systems disproves pip's statement; VMS, Apollo's Aegis, Solaris, HP/UX,
>AIX, Daisy-DNIX (now there was an OS that made Microsoft look *good*) [*],
That doesn't disprove anything. The OS is a natural monopoly.
>OSF/1, VM/CMS, RSX-11M, TOPS-20. Closer to home -- home PC, that is --
>there was CP/M, Apple ][ OS, Apple /// OS (DOS?), the IBM PC's built
>in BASIC (one has to squint a bit), AmigaOS, Atari's TOS, C64's
>built-in BASIC (one has to squint even more), Tandy's TRS-80's Basic,
>and last (well, not quite, but I don't know any more OSes) but most
>certainly not least, MacOS.
Yes, and all of these went the way of the dodo due to the fact
that supporting multiple operating systems is more expensive
than just supporting one. Buying an OS that isn't "used by
everyone" can also seem to put you at a disadvantage.
THIS is why the Amiga is just a memory.
THIS is why MS-DOS 3 kicked Macintosh ass.
THIS is why more expensive and more primitive DOS/PC
systems kicked Amiga's ass.
Compatible was more important than cheap.
Compatible was more important than easy.
Compatible was more important than powerful.
The network effects of interfaces discourage diversity due to
economies of scale. If those interfaces are owned, you end up
with a single vendor producing products that generate those
network effects.
[deletia]
Microsoft manged to have ownership of the standard that gained
the first decisive lead. A similar situation happened with Unix.
This is why VMS and other more interesting big iron OSes are
pretty much just historical footnotes at this point.
--
Unless you've got the engineering process to match a DEC,
you won't produce a VMS.
You'll just end up with the likes of NT.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Linux and the 21st Century Boom - Re: Wy Linux will/is failing on the
desktop
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:14:29 -0000
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 01:09:19 -0600, Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:3a89bb38$0$27533@reader4...
>> I'll make you a deal: find me a case where MS didn't abuse that
>> power to stop an OEM from shipping an alternative to Windows,
>> and I'll go hunting for supporting evidence to my claim.
>
>Huh? There is no way to prove what you're asking. All you have to do is
>accuse them of having a secret deal to offset any case of an OEM willingly
>choosing windows.
If such contracts were a matter of public record, the issue
could be settled quite simply.
[deletia]
--
The term "popular" is MEANINGLESS in consumer computing. DOS3
was more "popular" than contemporary Macintoshes despite the
likelihood that someone like you would pay the extra money to
not have to deal with DOS3.
Network effects are everything in computing.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: "Joel Barnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Ethernet card for UNIX/Linux
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:22:26 -0800
"John Travis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 07:33:14 GMT, "Martin Eden"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Hi everybody.
> >
> >I need an ethernet card for my new system. I'll dual boot Linux and
FreeBSD.
> >Any advice on which one to get?
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
>
> Realtek (RTL) 8029. Great cheap cards. I haven't had problems with the
> 8139 (not the 8129!) either. I also like the 3Com 3C900s (Tornado's I
> think). I would avoid Linksys as they seem to give a lot of people fits.
> But the Realtek 8029 is the only one I have used for _both_ GNU/Linux and
> FreeBSD. Free picked it up, and my dhcp server, without any problems.
It's
> an ne2k-pci clone sold under several names. I think mine was branded a
> Focus Networks EtherLAN PCI adapter of something (it said it worked for
> Novell, SCO UNIX etc. so I wasn't too woried :-).
>
Ovislink makes a cheap and reliable Realtek 8139 NIC.
> jt
>
> ________________________________________
> Alternative Computing Solutions...
> Debian GNU/Linux http://www.debian.org
> FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:20:38 -0000
On 12 Feb 2001 07:05:23 +1100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>>Under Linux I selected the Epson 640 Color stylus driver when I installed
>>Linux Mandrake. What do I find? The Gimp doesn't use this, it defaults to
>>postscript instead.
Here we have it, definitive proof that Petey boy is just a lying
troll. You could have tried the default. You could have even tried
the default after you found out that you screwed things up.
However, doing such a thing would not satisfy your trolling agenda.
>
>Yes. That's how it works. The driver will then pick up the Postscript and
>convert it to something your printer understands.
>
>>The Gimp picks postscript by default. I had to override that
>
>In other words, you sabotaged the whole system. The printer driver *expects*
[deletia]
--
The LGPL does infact tend to be used instead of the GPL in instances
where merely reusing a component, while not actually altering that
component, would be unecessarily burdensome to people seeking to
build their own works.
This dramatically alters the nature and usefulness of Free Software
in practice, contrary to the 'all viral all the time' fantasy the
anti-GPL cabal here would prefer one to believe.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Threat: non-existant
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:27:20 -0000
On 11 Feb 2001 12:27:11 -0600, Jan Johanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2684374,00.html?chkpt=zdnn_rt_
>latest
>
>Look at the numbers they're talking about. TurboLinux is just SOARING with a
>whooping 68% revenue growth (not profits, just revenue) which sounds
>impressive until you realize that it's a jump from 1.8 million to 2.9
>million. Give me a break, that's what two middle level managers at MS make.
>Compaq spends that much every time it submits a webspec test. Dell spends
Everyone has to start somewhere.
[deletia]
Plus, it's not the $$$'s that are really relevant by the
number of units being shipped. Linux being remarkably
cheaper than WinDOS skews these sorts of numbers rather
in favor of Microsoft.
No statistic exists in a vacuum.
--
Common Standards, Common Ownership.
The alternative only leads to destructive anti-capitalist
and anti-democratic monopolies.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Good article
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:33:36 -0000
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:12:31 +0100, Pedro Duato <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> : Interestingly enough, Apache is probably less troublesome and works
>better
>> : on Windows NT than IIs. If you can't run an open source operating
>system,
>> : at least stick to open source software as much as possible.
>>
>> In general, I agree.
>
> Why ? Software is just software, and XOR EAX,EAX is the same
>be it open source or be it $10000.
>
>> One should not, however, expect the same performance or reliability
>> from the NT ports of Apache or Postgres, or any other server software,
>> as from the real thing running on a real OS.
>
> Like it or not, Windows NT/2000 is a real OS, and if open source
Not quite. Unix, unlike NT5, is effective when handling large
numbers of concurrent processes. If Culter and his cabal
built NT without being able to manage that sort of thing then
that's HIS failing and Microsoft's.
>code does not perform as well as under FreeBSD, GNU/Linux or other
>like-unix OS's is just because open source has been designed with
>that unixism in mind, and in a certain way, it does prove it is some kind
>of OS dependent, or at least, optimized for if you don't want to say
>dependent.
>
>> No firsthand experience comparing the two, but a few others who've
>> tried tell me that while Apache on NT is far more robust and
>> predictable than IIS.
>
> I've run both of them at Windows 2000 and Apache at Linux and
>FreeDBS, and while Apache indeed does perform better under
>Linux that under Windows 2000, then it is expected so, isn't it ? Let's
>wait the multithreaded Apache and let's see if Windows 2000 port
So, this "real OS" has to wait until an application is coded
work specifically with it. This doesn't mean that Apache is
suffering from Unixism but simply not pandering to NT-isms.
[deletia]
When the multi-threaded version of Apache is ready for prime time,
the Unixen will likely exploit it quite nicely. This means that as
real OSes go, Unix functionality is a superset of NT's.
Anyone ever do performance testing of Apache under VMS?
--
The LGPL does infact tend to be used instead of the GPL in instances
where merely reusing a component, while not actually altering that
component, would be unecessarily burdensome to people seeking to
build their own works.
This dramatically alters the nature and usefulness of Free Software
in practice, contrary to the 'all viral all the time' fantasy the
anti-GPL cabal here would prefer one to believe.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Interesting article
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:39:22 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron Kulkis
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote
on Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:48:12 -0500
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>
>J Sloan wrote:
>>
>> Chad Myers wrote:
>>
>> > "chrisv" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >
>> > > LOL! Right. It's got NOTHING to do with it being the best tool for
>> > > the job...
>> >
>> > In many cases, it's not, but don't tell a Unix blockhead or a
>> > penguinista that!
>>
>> Chad continues spewing insults and calling names.
>>
>> Do tell, chad, if linux is just a fad, why are you so threatened?
>>
>> What motivtates you to haunt the Linux advocacy forums?
>
>He's afraid that if Linux becomes totally mainstream, he won't
>have any more excuses for why his shit doesn't work.
I think we can help him.
[1] "The power supply futzed out."
[2] (California only) "I had a blackout."
[3] "The dog ate my printout."
[4] "My disk drive failed."
[5] "My gel battery got old and I had a blackout."
[6] "A thunderstorm roared through the area and zapped everything."
[7] "I misspelled the printer name."
[8] "I accidentally removed /lib/libc*."
[9] "I accidentally did 'rm -rf /'."
[10] "I forgot the root password."
[11] "I forgot how to do './configure; make'."
[12] "The CLI is too hard. I can't handle typing."
[13] "Having more than one type of GUI confuses me. I can't handle
Athena's [*] black-bordered widgets next to GNOME's shadow-bordered
ones."
[14] "I forgot to download the documentation."
[15] "I can't type 'man'."
[16] "I can't handle penguin icons; it's a deep-seated psychosis.
That waving flag makes much more sense."
[17] "My CD-ROM doesn't work because I was using it as a cup holder."
[18] "I can't find the power switch."
[19] "I can't handle a text editor editing something in /etc."
and the last one,
[20] "It's hard to handle something that wasn't made by a monopoly
with the user's best interests at heart."
:-) :-) :-)
[.sigsnip]
[*] note that more modern Athena widgets have a 3-d look, and I think
the scrollbars were modified as well.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
EAC code #191 9d:11h:58m actually running Linux.
Linux. The choice of a GNU generation.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux and the 21st Century Boom - Re: Wy Linux will/is failing on the
desktop
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:53:26 -0600
"Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3a8ae001$0$24627@reader3...
> > "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:3a89bb38$0$27533@reader4...
> >> I'll make you a deal: find me a case where MS didn't abuse
> >> that power to stop an OEM from shipping an alternative to
> >> Windows, and I'll go hunting for supporting evidence to my
> >> claim.
> >
> > Huh? There is no way to prove what you're asking. All you
> > have to do is accuse them of having a secret deal to offset any
> > case of an OEM willingly choosing windows.
> You're still not getting me Erik? Where in my previous
> statements do you see any mention of *secret* deals?!
Well, i'm used to dealing with the regulars here that will assert any
supposition as fact.
> Show me facts, not implications like you have done just now, *then* and
> *only then* will I start taking you seriously (and I think the
> regulars will agree in this).
I'm still not quite sure what you're looking for. You're looking for an OEM
to provide legal sworn testimony of "We have not been coerced by MS"?
What it boils down to is this, OEM's want every price advantage they can get
when it comes to their competition. Any testimony by an OEM would be viewed
as MS giving that OEM financial incentives to do so. I think MS rightfully
didn't include any OEM testimony to avoid the appearance of that.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:04:54 -0600
"Ian Pulsford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
>
> > > You said it. Now consider that, for whatever reason (MoBo dead, got a
> > > faster one, you name it) I want to replace the motherboard. Now that
> > > braindead scheme kicks in, although the OS still runs on the same
> > > computer (you don't want to tell me that the MoBo IS the computer)
> >
> > You can replace the motherboard without re-activation.
> >
> > > And below you acknowledge that even a different NIC will kick it in.
> >
> > No I don't. You can replace components, even the motherboard without
> > reactivating. You just can't replace *ALL* your components without
> > reactivating.
> >
>
> So I can install Wizzer on a PC chocked full of sound cards and sell a
> Wizzer/sound card package to five or so clients per motherboard.
Wouldn't it just be easier to get the crack?
It's not designed to completely prevent piracy. Nothing can do that. But
like ordinary locks, they're designed to keep honest people honest.
------------------------------
From: Nigel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft plans lend further aid to open source OSes
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:58:42 +0000
>
> I stopped running windows altogether when I bought a dreamcast.
>
You mean that sega console that runs on Windows CE - if you think you have
escaped windows then think again (at least until you get the playstation2 as
games for this are mostly developed on linux).
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Whistler/.NET will Help Linux
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:06:22 -0600
I think you're reading a lot more "into" the "plan" than is there. Yes, MS
has a lot of dreams for what they would like to do, but I doubt even half of
them will become reality. That doesn't mean .NET won't be useful and quite
popular.
"Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:96e5rv$5v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> As a Windows 2000 advocate, I'd have to agree that MS is going to kill
> themselves if they forge ahead with .NET.
>
> What the hell are they thinking? I hope they don't really think people
are
> going to buy into their plan... it might make even diehard windows users
> change...
>
> -Todd
>
>
> "Mike Martinet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > From what I've read
> >
> > http://wired.com/news/business/0,1367,41622,00.html
> >
> > Microsoft isn't waiting for antitrust legislation to destroy them.
> > They're doing it themselves. If I understand correctly, with Whistler,
> > people will have to phone in registration numbers to get systems to
> > run. And that the copy protection supposedly includes a scheme by which
> > the reg. number gets tied to the machine's configuration - hard drive,
> > net card, modem, etc. This is insane. If true, people will have to
> > re-phone in their regs when they upgrade peripherals!
> >
> > But it gets better.
> >
> > Future versions of MS software (upgrades, service packs*, add-ons) will
> > only be available online through .NET. This looks like an attempt by MS
> > to force people to pay for software on a monthly basis - like cable TV.
> >
> > So, you change your NIC card and in order to make use of your monthly
> > software subscription to get the new driver you have to wait on hold
> > with your computer's configuration list for someone to re-enable your
> > machine so you can download the software you're already being billed
> > for. This sounds neat.
> >
> > In my experience, copy protection just doesn't work - either at home or
> > work. People blithely trade registration numbers and disks and software
> > with dongles gets replaced with applications that don't require keeping
> > track of a serial-port plug. I can't imagine home users being happy
> > about MS using their machines against them.
> >
> > I think in about 2 years there's going to be a hell of a lot of business
> > for people who know how to set up Linux.
> >
> > *Service pack. What a great marketing spin on the old 'patch', eh? "We
> > don't need no stinkin' patches!"
> >
> > MjM
>
>
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: linux is dieing
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:58:01 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:05:12 -0500, Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >Bloody Viking wrote:
> >>
> >> Henry_Barta ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >>
> >> : I don't have a UPS on this. If the battery in the laptop were
> >> : any good, I wouldn't need one ;) Neither would I call ComEd
> >> : reliable, but they've been good for weeks now.
> >>
> >> Yeah, but wait for summer. Anyways, it could be worse. You could be in
> >> California with its Third World style problems from the lame laws.
> >>
> >
> >Price controls ALWAYS lead to shortages.
> >
> >Ask anybody looking for an apartment in New York.
>
> This example is hardly definitive. There is a glaringly obvious
> issue of demand being greater than supply in cities such as
> New York. Price controls have NOTHING to do with it.
Yes they do.
When you have price controls, then there is less incentive to supply
more.
If I'm a builder...and have the option of building apartments in a
free-market zone, or a rent-controlled zone....I would be an IDIOT
to build in the rent-controlled zone.
And if I was the CEO of a corporation and made such a decision, I
would be subject not only to being fired, but even to being the target
of a class-action lawsuit by stockholders for gross mismanagement.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell012501.asp
...
The reason there is an electricity crisis in California is
because so many people are so confused about economics that
they think price controls can make something available and
affordable. But price controls do nothing more than change
the monetary signals, without changing the real costs of
anything.
Those costs have to be paid, one way or another, under any
form of economic or political system. If electricity prices
are not paid in the rates charged the consumers, then they
are going to have to be paid in taxes. If the public is so
foolish, and the politicians so irresponsible, that these
costs are not paid, then look for lights to keep going out
in California.
When the government holds the price down, that virtually
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
guarantees that the supply will be reduced and shortages
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
will follow. It doesn't matter whether it is electricity,
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
housing, petroleum, food or whatever. Price controls have
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
a centuries-old track record of causing shortages in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
countries around the world. But those who are ignorant of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
economics are surprised when the same thing happens in
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
California in the 21st century that happened in the Roman
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Empire a couple of thousand years ago.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> [deletia]
>
> This is simply the result of too many people trying to fit
> into too small of an area.
>
Wrong. Without price controls, California utilities would be able
to turn a profit on electricity purchased from across state lines.
However, the California legislature *arrogantly* DEMANDS not only that
other states sell them electricity, but ALSO that they do so at prices
far below market rates.
> --
>
> In general, Microsoft is in a position of EXTREME conflict of
> interest being both primary supplier and primary competitor.
> Their actions must be considered in that light. How some people
> refuse to acknowledge this is confounding.
> |||
> / | \
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
