Linux-Advocacy Digest #643, Volume #32 Sun, 4 Mar 01 20:13:08 EST
Contents:
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (J Sloan)
Re: NT vs *nix performance ("Chad Myers")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (mlw)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: NT vs *nix performance ("Chad Myers")
Re: Business ("Mike")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: Mircosoft Tax (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Nigel")
Re: Linux Joke ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Nigel")
Re: Why can't Apple do it? (Mike Flournoy)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Why can't Apple do it? (CR Lyttle)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (mlw)
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... ("Edward Rosten")
Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows... (pip)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:11:35 GMT
pip wrote:
> Doh!
>
> They are not buzzwords.
Coulda fooled me -
> I don't want to trade buzzwords. I want to illustrate the differences in
> OS's as asked to.
Ok, then instead of parroting the ms "innovation" buzzwords,
explain why each of them is unique to the windows pc platform
and why you don't think there is or could be a Unix equivalent.
jjs
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 23:57:26 GMT
"Alan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sun, 04 Mar 2001 16:02:08 GMT, "Chad Myers"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Nowhere in the cites you provided does it say that one can distribute
> >the copies one has made of the media.
> >
> ** NOTICE: In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, this
> material is distributed, without profit, for research and educational
> purposes only. ***
Ok, for research and educational purposes, but not recreational
or entertainment purposes.
Like I said, you still can't burn a copy of a CD for a friend legally.
The police aren't going to bust your door down, but technically
it's still illegal.
-c
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 19:16:36 -0500
pip wrote:
>
> mlw wrote:
> >
> > pip wrote:
> > >
> > > mlw wrote:
> > > > There are NO good points that are inherent to Windows. This is provable. Every
> > > > API Windows implements, has a better designed analogy in the UNIX world.
> > >
> > > Show me DirectX.
> >
> > OpenGL?
>
> No, try again. Must work with all cards....
Video cards do not have to have DirectX support in Windows, most do, but it is
not an absolute requirement.
--
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time.
The terror of their tyranny, however, is alleviated by their lack of
consistency.
-- Albert Einstein
========================
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:13:29 +0000
J Sloan wrote:
> I have lost track of the number of people who have said
> "I wish I could switch to Linux, but I need to run this one
> windows-only app". In other words, they have no great
> love for windows, but they are unwillingly chained to it via
> an application dependency, e.g. ms word or quicken, the
> 2 most frequently mentioned stumbling blocks.
true - that's why I think that WINE is a _really_ important project for
the Linux community.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: NT vs *nix performance
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:00:45 GMT
"Ed Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <sHto6.11845$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >"Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Sat, 3 Mar 2001 21:42:08 -0500, JS PL <js@plcom> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Only 95% are forced to buy windows? Why not 100%?? What is different
> >> > about the five percent that they are exempt from being "FORCED" to buy
> >> > windows?
> >>
> >> Presumably they bought Macs instead of PC's.
> >
> >Which is another reason why MS does not have a monopoly. They
> >can never establish price controls because Macs are a reasonable
> >alternative to the PCs and consumers could reasonably switch to the
> >Mac if the PC/Windows realm became too pricey (and indeed they
> >have as we have seen with the recent iMac v. PC price wars).
> >
> In engineering they teach a rule of thumb that one quantity being
> over ten times the next largest means than the smaller can be
> ignored because the larger totally dominates the input.
>
> Your fantasy of "it can't be a monopoly if it is not 100%' was not
> true for Standard Oil either, it did not save them from a breakup
> either.
Apple has a decent and sizable chunk of the personal computing market.
The iMac has been very successful. Macintosh hardware maintains a sizable
space in both Best Buy and Circuit City among others. You could argue
that Linux's trival shelf space in the stores wouldn't count against
MS's "monopoly", but Apple's does. In the Circuit City down here,
Apple has about as large a space as the PC section does (not counting
laptops). It could be argued that MS may have a monopoly on the PC,
but that is irrelevant because the Mac provides similar functionality
and is a reasonable and readily available alternative and competitor.
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Business
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:19:33 GMT
"Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> Mike wrote:
> >
> > "Aaron Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > Hey, Drestin
> > >
> > > Still pimping out your wife?
> >
> > Aaron: People who live in glass houses...
> >
> Do I have a website devoted to selling nude photos of my wife like
> Drestin does his?
>
> a) yes
> B) NO
Presumably, you need a wife first. Glad to see you're working on it.
http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/9881/shyguys.htm
Come on, Aaron, be polite.
-- Mike --
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:18:20 +0000
J Sloan wrote:
> Ok, then instead of parroting the ms "innovation" buzzwords,
> explain why each of them is unique to the windows pc platform
> and why you don't think there is or could be a Unix equivalent.
You make a lot of assumptions.
If you have a look at other posts I point out that the component
architecture that windows has _really_ embraced is a good and sound
idea. It makes sense and makes a great programming platform. That is why
Gnome is using CORBA, and why those great guys are establishing some
proper foundations for us poor programmers so that we don't have to
re-invent the wheel every five seconds.
The point is that - yes some ideas in the windows world are good. While
they may not have originated there, M$ _have_ actually really used them
to great effect. This is why I believe that Gnome is really leading the
way in providing a decent development platform.
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:20:46 +0000
mlw wrote:
> > > OpenGL?
> >
> > No, try again. Must work with all cards....
>
> Video cards do not have to have DirectX support in Windows, most do, but it is
> not an absolute requirement.
Quite so - but the point is that DirectX does a fine job of hiding the
physical details of the card away from us programmers. It just maked
things easier, faster and better. (note that nVida have helped in
forming version 8 - intersting)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: 5 Mar 2001 00:26:43 GMT
On 4 Mar 2001 19:21:45 GMT, Perry Pip wrote:
>On 4 Mar 2001 18:23:08 GMT,
>Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Most of the world is not a lifetime college student like you are. Real
>world prices are much higher. And even with those prices you've doubled
>the price of the OS.
ENough of the fraud and hyperbole, and time for some facts:
IBM Visual Age for Java $2067
Borland JBUilder 4 Enterprise: $2985
Borland Delphi Enterprise $2589
Borland C++ Builder Enterprise $2489
MS Visual Studio Enterprise: $1400 (list $1619)
Corel Wordperfect Office 2000 Win95/NT $399
Microsoft Office 2000 Std 95/8/ME/NT $499
Win ME Upgrade: $49
RH Deluxe Workstations: $78
Corel Linux OS $63
Windows ME $163
Mac OS 9 $103
Source: Buycomp.com
That's enough homework from me , and I believe it contradicts your
claims that Visual Studio and MS Office are excessively priced.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: "Nigel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: 5 Mar 2001 00:31:55 GMT
> OK - tell me something. I have copied a large amount of files from my cd
> onto my hd. How do I make these files readable in the GUI (a single
> recursive command). Using CLI it will be attrib -r -a -h -s /s
>
Highlight all files, right-click, select 'properties', change attributes -
this
works under konqueror (not sure about windows exploder though).
Still slower than the CLI but it is possible under the GUI.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Joke
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:34:57 +0000
> Funny how my ancient 2.0.0 kernel still works after all these years.
> Like the Energiser Rabbit, it keeps going and going and going and
> going...
My kernel 2.0.13 was working fine until recently. I had to upgrade
because 2.2.14 had much better drivers for my CDRW using SCSI over ATAPI.
Other than that, it was flawless.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Nigel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: 5 Mar 2001 00:35:31 GMT
> Hmmmmmmmm. I think not. Unless you have a postscript printer. Too much
> buggering around from defaults.
>
> How do you get that paper out message? Select different print trays?
> <skating on thin ice here as I could be wrong>
>
Easily solved - use CUPS (common unix printing system) or
GnomePrint drivers (drivers available for almost all printers and
support all commands available on same printers under windblows).
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Why can't Apple do it?
From: Mike Flournoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:20:36 GMT
in article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Elvis2001
at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 3/4/01 12:30 PM:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Rudd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> Subscription based computing in the consumer space will fail. (ie. .Net
>> is nothing to worry about, and will only be useful to people well
>> outside of the consumer space)
>
> IN other words - it will fail for the same reason DIVX did. That is,
> despite copyright laws, there is a sense of ownerwhip one experiences
> when buying a DVD, software app, etc. You buy it, you own it, you get
> to use it whenever you want. Period.
>
> JW
Good example, I had forgotten DIVX. Does the public library put bookstores
out of business? No. People want to own their stuff whenever it makes sense.
Pay-per-view might be viable but not for the masses. The rent model works
for Video stores because they are convient , people don't know what they
want and need to browse, and most movies are only good for one pass through.
I don't think software fits that mold. Even though you can rent Nintendo
games at the video store most are bought despite their high price. I might
rent an application as a form of shareware but I doubt it - only if it were
essential and I had to choose from several.
Mike
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:36:08 +0000
Nigel wrote:
>
> > OK - tell me something. I have copied a large amount of files from my cd
> > onto my hd. How do I make these files readable in the GUI (a single
> > recursive command). Using CLI it will be attrib -r -a -h -s /s
> >
>
> Highlight all files, right-click, select 'properties', change attributes -
> this
> works under konqueror (not sure about windows exploder though).
>
> Still slower than the CLI but it is possible under the GUI.
no, no, no - we want recursion! (and I meant about just with exploder
btw).
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:38:05 +0000
Nigel wrote:
>
> > Hmmmmmmmm. I think not. Unless you have a postscript printer. Too much
> > buggering around from defaults.
> >
> > How do you get that paper out message? Select different print trays?
> > <skating on thin ice here as I could be wrong>
> >
>
> Easily solved - use CUPS (common unix printing system) or
> GnomePrint drivers (drivers available for almost all printers and
> support all commands available on same printers under windblows).
Yes - and we have a winner ladies and gentleman: GnomePrint provides the
stuff that we need in a sane way!
Just again goes to show that the Gnome team has their heads in the right
place.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:45:21 +0000
>> start->run "command"
>
> OK, everyone knows this one. It's not a command shell. I'm speaking of
> a full-featured command-line shell with filename completion, complete
> with CLI tools, like awk, sed and grep. Does start->run do this? No.
If you *have* to use windows, it is well worth installing cygwin
(www.cygwin.com) which is free unless you develop and sell using it.
> It's kinda hard to work with a command line without virtual consoles.
> Windows doesn't have a true command line - it just has a DOS prompt.
I'll agree. I use 11 text consols and 1 X console. Switching randomly
between 11 full screen DOS boxes under windows is a pain in the arse.
Further to that, you are stuch at 80x25 (best shape, way too big) or
80x50 (too sqyare and still to big) whereas I can (and do) use 160x64
(yep that uses all 1280x1024 pixels of my moniter) text mode under Linux.
Also, unlike Xterms, dos boxes can't be resized and they scroll very
slowly. If that wasn't bad enough, there seems to be no sloppyfocus
option.
> Linux is more flexible, in that it's really easy to open multiple VC's
> and switch between them. The DOS box command line is kinda hard to work
> with, seeing as to how the default window manager on Windows (Internet
> Explorer) doesn't allow you to work with virtual workspaces. You're
There are programs which let you do this, but none are as flexible or
useful as the pager in fvwm(2).
> forced to work within the confines of the crippled environment Windows
> gives you. Windows is stifling in that it forces you to program and/or
> interact with a GUI 99% of the time.
Yep.
> And after all this, why even bother working with a crippled system with
> an outrageous license like Windows?
I don't. I find linux much easier to use and much more user-friendly.
> Of course, I will admit Windows has its good points. For example, all
> the companies in the world support Windows, because it is so numerous in
> quantity, and is so mainstream. Also, maybe the user interface is nice
> at helping completely computer illiterate people use the computer. But
> other than that, it's a crippled system. There are even better
> alternatives for computer newbies, such as BeOS and Mac OS-X.
MacOS 9 is fine for newbies. I'd say it was better than the Windows UI.
It has several points I like more than windows. But the WM still isn't a
patch on fvwm2.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:47:03 +0000
>> OK, everyone knows this one. It's not a command shell. I'm speaking
>> of a full-featured command-line shell with filename completion,
>> complete with CLI tools, like awk, sed and grep.
>
> The CLI is the old way of doing things. It has it's place, but it's
> getting a bit long in the tooth. Long live the GUI!
<snip>
My, we are in a trollish mood tonight, aren't we :-)
-Ed
--
|
Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: CR Lyttle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why can't Apple do it?
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:52:06 GMT
Neil Bradley wrote:
>
> > > next 10 years is pretty short sighted. It truely is up there infamous
> > > industry quotes like the IBM top exec who predicted that the world wide
> > > global market for computers was some small 2 digit number (IIRC), or
> > > Gates' quote about 640k being all the memory anyone would ever need.
> > We all know Bill only said that because it was all he had to offer and what
> > MS has to offer defines the limits of the universe.
>
> Gates never said that. It was Thomas Watson Jr.
>
> Think about it. The 640K limitation wasn't a Microsoft curse, it was
> IBM's architecture. IBM Made the mistake of mapping system ROMs above
> the 640K region instead of down lower. Microsoft worked within those
> bounds.
>
That was due to the limits on the original chips. Using more than 1meg
required complex paging. Plus on reset, the cpu execuited the 16 bytes
at the high end of the 1meg boundary (0xFFFFF0). The ROM had to include
that address. When software grew to need more memory, MS never bothered
to include the page switching mechanisms in its OS. Thus the need for
such junk as emm386. Remember all the problems with "extended" vs
"expanded" memory?
> BTW, The quote about there being a need for only 4 computes worldwide
> was Thomas Watson Sr.
>
What year? I think that was in the late 40's or early 50's wasn't it?
> -->Neil
--
Russ
<http://home.earthlink.net/~lyttlec>
Home of the Universal Automotive Test Set
Linux Open Source (GPL) Project
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 00:53:24 +0000
Edward Rosten wrote:
>
> > And after all this, why even bother working with a crippled system with
> > an outrageous license like Windows?
>
> I don't. I find linux much easier to use and much more user-friendly.
Now now, be careful. It may be more friendly for us types but not for
"joe average"
One of the nice things about Linux is that it may be a bit of a pain to
set up, but once you have it set up - it _stays_ how you want it without
the random errors that windows seems to produce by just using it.
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:07:59 -0500
pip wrote:
>
> mlw wrote:
> > > > OpenGL?
> > >
> > > No, try again. Must work with all cards....
> >
> > Video cards do not have to have DirectX support in Windows, most do, but it is
> > not an absolute requirement.
>
> Quite so - but the point is that DirectX does a fine job of hiding the
> physical details of the card away from us programmers. It just maked
> things easier, faster and better. (note that nVida have helped in
> forming version 8 - intersting)
On the contrary, OpenGL does a better job and allows for more diverse
architectures.
DirectX is a joke. Having written device support for DirectX, I can tell you it
sucks.
--
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time.
The terror of their tyranny, however, is alleviated by their lack of
consistency.
-- Albert Einstein
========================
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:06:31 +0000
>> > In many respects Unix is amateurish. Toolkits, printing subsystems
>> > and GUI all lack behind at the moment. Of course things are changing
>> > FAST and great programming toolkits are now available (read GTK+).
>>
>> [About printing]
>>
>> lag behind what?
>>
>> The printing subsystem on linux works better in general than under
>> windows.
>
> Hmmmmmmmm. I think not. Unless you have a postscript printer. Too much
> buggering around from defaults.
Not really. I have an HP500 deskjet. Using the RH printtool it went
something like this:
click on new printer, click setup, select HP500, click OK.
That was it.
I have since set up several instances to do other useful stuff, such as a
low res queue, and a fast text queue.
> How do you get that paper out message? Select different print trays?
> <skating on thin ice here as I could be wrong>
Well, I've always had my printer next to my computer (and it doesn't have
several trays), so I can't comment. The network printer in my college
doesn't give a paper out error on the screen.
>> For instance if you want several settings for one printer, you have to
>> manually change them each time under Windows.
>
> Run that one past me again... Why not create other printer instances?
It never seemed to work very well. One instance kept swallowing the others
settings. I never tried again. Also, there is a lot less flexibility.
Under Linux, I have more optins such as 2pages per page
(which I use a suprising amount).
>> The printing drivers are not accesible from the commandline `print'
>> command
>
> Are they not? You'd better check that again.
No, they are not[*]. First capture a port and then print to that port. The
print command just dumps raw data to the captured port. There is no way of
sending that data throgh a print driver (well, none that I've found).
[*] And outside of the command line, there is no way of avoiding the
driver, which is why I needed to use the print command to print a PS
document to a PS printer.
UNIX lets you use both from either place, which is a good thing.
>> It doesn't seem to have any print filtering machanism
>
> It does not need one.
Technically, no, but a filtering mechanism is very, very useful. The
filtering mechanism provides a consistent mechanism avaliable from the CLI
and the GUI. The windows mechanism is very inconsistent.
Also, using filters, I don't have to bother loading the correct app to
print the document esp. from the CLI.
>> IMO UNIX printing is several steps ahead.
>
> Well you done nothing to convince me that piping is superior to proper
> application components or that the printing system is any good either.
I was talking about printing, not component models. As a final point,
windows doesn't let you print a device independent[*] printout to a file.
You have to print the device dependent version. The print mechanism is in
a different place in UNIX. Everything uses PS, so if you print to a file,
that printout will work on any printer you have set up.
[*] Unless you count this way:
Install ADOBE's PS print driver install Ghostscript.
select the PS driver and print to a file run it through GS when you want a
hardcopy.
If this doesn't convince you, then I can only suggest that you try some
abusive printing. I have some quite odd printing requirements and I have
found that the flexibility of the UNIX print system makes it much easier
for me. I find myself fighting the Windows one.
> They both have their place. In the wastepaper basket of history.
> (OK simple piping _is_ very useful - but I think you get what I mean!) I
> am just thankful that some parts of the Linux community see this and are
> doing something about it! Thank goodness!
I don't believe piping should disappear. It is very good for simple tasks.
There is no point in burdening down simple tasks with a much more complex
structure. Most of the tasks I do are fairly simple and piping is fine.
I suppose I would use a component system for mor complex ones, but at the
moment, pipes work fine.
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when I run Windows...
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 01:07:07 +0000
mlw wrote:
> On the contrary, OpenGL does a better job and allows for more diverse
> architectures.
>
> DirectX is a joke. Having written device support for DirectX, I can tell you it
> sucks.
I can only speak about writing DirectX code, not on the device level. So
we will have different points of view. My main priority is to have the
most functionality for the least cost in terms of coding.
I don't want to write different code for different cards. Yes, I am a
lazy programmer.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
