Linux-Advocacy Digest #663, Volume #32 Mon, 5 Mar 01 21:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: Mircosoft Tax ("Edward Rosten")
Patch to Kulkis_Sig_10.1 now ready for downloading (Tim Cain)
Re: Crimosoft will get off scot-free (Bloody Viking)
Re: Crimosoft will get off scot-free (Bloody Viking)
Re: Crimosoft will get off scot-free (Bloody Viking)
Re: KDE or GNOME? (Craig Kelley)
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market ("2 + 2")
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market (.)
Re: Cuts both ways ("Keldon Warlord 2000")
Re: Sometimes, when i run Windows (Marada C. Shradrakaii)
Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market (.)
Re: Linux Joke ("Keldon Warlord 2000")
Re: Linux growth underscores threat to Microsoft ("2 + 2")
Re: Why can't Apple do it? (John Rudd)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Mircosoft Tax
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:17:50 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> You were comparing RH7 to RH6 and WinME to Win311. So what coan WinME
>> do that Win98 can't?
>
> For the record, I never asked to compare windows with linux, or anything
> else. I asked solely about the differences between the 6 floppy win3.1
> and the 150-odd megabyte windows ME.
Not a huge amount. EF has cited a couple of examples, but not 140MB's
worth.
> [I've only just noticed the crosspost to pro and anti-linux groups, so I
>
> apologise for any confusion]
-Ed
--
| Edward Rosten
| u98ejr@
This argument is a beta version. | ecs.ox
| .ac.uk
------------------------------
From: Tim Cain <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Patch to Kulkis_Sig_10.1 now ready for downloading
Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:55:16 +0000
Hi,
Like many people here, I've been happy using Kulkis_Sig_10.0
for some time, and I can only admire the amount of work that
Aaron has put into this long-standing and useful sig, which is
now in it's J'th release.
Unfortunately, as is the case with many large monolithic sigs,
errors do creep in and then propogate from one release to the
next until somewhere down the line we're standing around the
terminal, scratching our heads and wondering what the hell the
damn thing's supposed to mean.
In order to forstall this sory fate for what is probably the
best-known, and definitely the largest sig on usenet, I have
done a little fine tuning and updating to help reflect the
newer "reverse order" format.
In order to keep bandwidth usage and download times to a minimum,
I just used a "diff -e" on the original (10.0) and the patched
(10.1) versions:
diff -e ./kulkis_sig_10.0.txt ./kulkis_sig_10.1.txt
=================================================
41c
...despite (C) below.
.
=================================================
I hope you all find this useful, and any errors or problems
should be reported to absolutely anybody but me.
Best,
Tim.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.microsoft.sucks
Subject: Re: Crimosoft will get off scot-free
Date: 6 Mar 2001 00:52:33 GMT
Alan ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Microsoft pays no federal taxes.
: http://www.ecommercetimes.com/news/viewpoint2000/view-001012-1.shtml
How did they manage that? Pay off the IRS to be classified as a religion?
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.microsoft.sucks
Subject: Re: Crimosoft will get off scot-free
Date: 6 Mar 2001 00:57:04 GMT
Tim Hanson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: Allthough I agree with you, I was using Beowolf as an example only.
: Incidently, the Microsoft clustering solution goes all the way up to
: (brace yourself) 32 nodes, at only $3,000 per node. You work for
: government? Want the price on toilet seats?
Even government has limits, believe it or not. With all the cutbacks, NASA was
driven to take a Slackware album and make Linux Extreme with it. Now, the
military is another story, with the $1,000 toilet seat. Financially, the DoD
can afford Windows, but not operationally when ships go Blue Screen Of Dead In
The Water.
: Shooting one's mouth off is something that is not done at Microsoft, in
: my opinion. I think it is likely that JA is making a play for Congress
: to limit the use of GPL in federal projects because it can be done with
: little legislation and, for possibly the last time in the next twenty
: years, the climate looks good for getting it through.
:
: > Microsoft's traditional "crush-kill-destroy" strategy won't work against
: > GPLware, so now their only recourse is legislation. (Actually, their
: > "value-added" recourse is still there, as it always has been, but they
: > apparently have religious qualms against relying on it. It's Capitalism's
: > greatest shame that a company sitting on a pile of gold the size of MS's has to
: > compete by destroying the competition directly, rather than actually generating
: > a better product. I suspect I could have rounded up about 1000 associates and
: > produced a pretty darn fine suite of products from scratch within a couple of
: > years, if I had the money that MS spent on marketing alone last year.)
: >
: > At any rate, it's certainly in JA's best interest if governments buy MS trash so
: > he and his cronies can pocket the money, rather than letting those governments
: > use stuff that they get for free (and often even give back in improved form).
: I work for government and I can tell you that, except for
: military-industrial, a huge gravy federal contract is the kiss of slow
: death for an enterprise.
: >
: > Bobby Bryant
: > Austin, Texas
: --
: Johnson's First Law:
: When any mechanical contrivance fails, it will do so at the
: most inconvenient possible time.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bloody Viking)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.microsoft.sucks
Subject: Re: Crimosoft will get off scot-free
Date: 6 Mar 2001 01:17:17 GMT
SoneoneElse (SomeoneElse) wrote:
: I had thought the toilets went on ships not aircraft.
: A friend in the Navy told me that they have some very strict
: requirements on ships, such as a toilet which when it rises in
: temperature high enough to melt or burn, does not emit
: toxic fumes ( after all this is probably below decks in an area
: with poor ventilation ). Meeting requirements like that can
: make parts very expensive.
An explanation like that does sound reasonable. Same with the Aaron Kulkis
explanation with the order and payment interface problem. A problem is that
all manner of military hardware is low-numbers production runs. While any old
hammer could be used, for high pressure steam plumbing, you need special steel
to bolt pipes together to withstand the heat and forces. Thus, the bolts and
nuts have to be specified as not too much in the civilian world rivals the
requirements of a ship's powerplant.
Parts for fighter planes will be big bucks as there is no civilian market for
them, ensuring small production runs. Ships too have the problem as Bath Iron
Works doesn't exactly rival GM in terms of units manufactured for example.
While that holds true for many parts, it does not always hold true, like
paperclips, general purpose nuts and bolts (shit-steel), hammers, wrenches,
etc. Snap-On makes some fine wrenches that would be good in an engineroom.
Sure, Snap-On is pricier than Craftsman, you want some quality for wrenches to
be used all the time, and abused too. But Snap-On does not cost a grand a
3/4-inch wrench.
Given the general spendthrift nature of military culture, a debacle like the
USS Yorktown going BSO-D.I.W. was inevitable. Yeah, we can crack jokes about
$1,000 toilet seats, but a Yorktown debacle is an outrage. The costly-parts
problem, despite legit explanations, has caused a spendthrift mentality
unparalleled anywhere else in the economy.
--
FOOD FOR THOUGHT: 100 calories are used up in the course of a mile run.
The USDA guidelines for dietary fibre is equal to one ounce of sawdust.
The liver makes the vast majority of the cholesterol in your bloodstream.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE or GNOME?
Date: 05 Mar 2001 18:29:11 -0700
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) writes:
> On 05 Mar 2001 15:52:30 -0700, Craig Kelley wrote:
> >Brian Langenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >I like Python a lot, I just can't get over not having an EOL
> >terminator.
>
> IMO having such a terminator is a misfeature (as much as I like C++).
> A sensible default should be for each "line of code" to be on one line,
> because that is how the typical line of code gos.
Except that I prefer to make my code readable:
object->method ( really really really long arg one,
arg two,
result of object2->method( sub arg one,
sub arg two,
sub arg three
),
a fourth arg
);
In python, that is one huge line to fit in 80 columns.
> >I like Perl, but it takes discipline to write good perl. It has the
> >notion of 'defined' and 'undefined' so that an exception is always
> >detectable, even if the number zero is a valid response. It also has
> >Java/C++ style exceptions and objects.
>
> This is news to me! How do you do exceptions in perl ?
eval {} with Exception::Class
> The objects really aren't the same as Java and C++. C++ and Java are
> both statically typed and have protection mechanisms.
Well, they have dynamic bindings as well. Perl is always dynamic, but
that's okay.
> In terms of memory management, Java is GC, C++ has no memory
> management, Perl is reference counted.
Perl hasn't been reference counted since 5.004. It changes a bunch
even though the minor numbers don't go up like other languages.
> This makes perl more like java -- all objects live in dynamic
> memory, all access is indirect via references, and because of the
> indirection, objects always behave polymorphically (since you can
> assign derived class references to base class references)
:) Perl is even more evil than that. It doesn't enforce any sort of
parent-child relationship, but it's default behaviour leads you to
believe it does.
> >I always wish that regular expressions and strings were as easy in
> >every language as they are in Perl. It really is a good language, but
> >not as structured as I would prefer.
>
> What I like most about Perl is that I've been able to dump bourne
> shell scripting for everything besides init/Makefile scripts and
> autoconf macros. I still wouldn't use perl for "real programming",
> but it serves very well as a "better shellscript than shellscript".
Perl is real programming. It can and does do everything that C/C++ do
but with more simplicity and elegance. I'd say that Java is a better
engineered language, but it is over-engineered in a number of places.
> > Perl 6 will change all that,
> >plus give much better thread support and debugging.
>
> Have you seen Ruby ? It looks and feels like Perl, but it has more of
> a genuine OO look and feel.
I saw the book at our local bookstore and thought about picking it
up. I will now.
> What will perl 6 offer that makes it "more structured" ?
For one, it's entirely written in C++ and will have first-class C++
objects as plug-ins. It will use C++ in object design below the hood
and will behave much more like Java with having static bindings
available (that is up for debate still); but the big news is that the
interpreter is all written with threads, allowing for some Java-like
multi-threaded applications (without all the baggage that Java
brings to the table).
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "2 + 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:45:16 -0500
Gary Hallock wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>In article <3aa3e713$0$34309$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Jon Johanson"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>> Why do people just not get it? It's old news - the price of the OS is
>> almost insignificant to any serious server or computer company
>> investment. PLUS the few dollars you save "not buying" Linux you'll
>> easily spend 3x over paying to support it and the additional admins and
>> programmers required to milk usability from it. It's a known fact that
>> unix OSes require more TCO to stay usefull.
In the example I was referring to, the low end Dell server designed for
server farm rack without a monitor, cost about $1000. The cost of Linux was
included, but the cost of Win 2000 was nearly another $1000.
This is a significant amount.
Now I will agree that a Win 2000 Advanced Server, with the MTS-heritage
componentized transaction processing monitor built-in, is worth additional
money. Note that both the TP monitor and the box would be higher cost, since
they are found in higher end products.
At one point, an uncomponentized TP monitor from IBM DROPPED to $35,000 per
cpu.
I advocate Win 2000 in many instances because the low prices and
off-the-shelf part interoperability favors consumers. However, Linux, unlike
Unix and mainframe products, have even better cost and interoperability
characteristics.
2 + 2
>>
>
>Realy? Source please. And don't bother trying to compare running
>Solaris on Sparc to Windows on a PC. Do you have any evidence that, all
>other things being equal, Windows has a lower TCO than Linux?
>
>Gary
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:47:50 +1300
> Been thinking along those lines myself. I despise Windows, I despise
> Bill Gates, yet here I am helping people with their Windows problems
> so they can go on using Windows and Bill Gates can go on making money
> while I can go on offering free tech support so he doesn't have to
> work quite so hard for his bucks.
I admire those who offer their help for free out of, basically, a desire
to do the right thing and help out your fellow man. I try to emulate
that behaviour myself, whenever a question I can answer is asked.
To worry that helping others might increase BG's wealth by another
0.00001% is unworthy of the original goal.
------------------------------
From: "Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Cuts both ways
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:53:34 -0800
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9813v7$ppj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>This page supports a product which purports to run Linux apps on
> >>Windows:
> >>
> >>http://neomueller.org/~isamu/line/
> >
> > Does it also emulate linux stability? <g>
>
> No, however, Micoros~1 have come up with a new innovation they call
> stability in Win XP: it can stay up for more than 4 hours on the trot.
>
> I think they have filed a patent on this one :-)
>
> -Ed
>
ATTN: Linux idiots
he was joking.
--
"One by one the Penguins steal my sanity." (found printed on a T-shirt)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marada C. Shradrakaii)
Date: 06 Mar 2001 02:00:39 GMT
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when i run Windows
>Aaron, try simply rebooting a windows machine every 30 seconds, it very
>rarely has time to crash :)
Ironically, my Windows install often crashes WHILE rebooting. Two rapid
control-alt-deletes should reboot, but I get a BSOD perhaps 5% of the time. I
suspect it's the mainboard, as it has only happened with this particular
board/CPU combonation.
--
Marada Coeurfuege Shra'drakaii
Colony name not needed in address.
------------------------------
From: . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Windows Owns Desktop, Extends Lead in Server Market
Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:04:01 +1300
> I don't know about you, but my moral compass is not degaussed.
Heh =)
> I suppose you
> could say that the virus fuckwits are vigilantes, but vigilantes that use
> criminal methods are still criminals, no matter the motive.
I can't see that there's anything inherently illegal OR immoral in
writing a virus. After all, a virus is simply a program that reproduces
itself and attempts to 'survive'. Destructive capabilities are added as
an afterthought, and they are the only thing that should be considered
illegal.
------------------------------
From: "Keldon Warlord 2000" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux Joke
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 19:04:39 -0800
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Jon Johanson wrote:
> >
> > "Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >
> > > No, that's the answer to the question "Why does the Windows
> > > NT/2000 user always obtain the next Service Pack".
> > >
> >
> > Actually, we have quite a few server not running sp1 - they didn't need
it.
>
>
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/default.asp?Search=Keywords&LangIDCODE=20
%3Ben-us&Value=SP1&OpSysID=925&Show=Alpha
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q265/3/81.asp
>
> You better git goin'! Better grab you SP1 and then git those
> hotfixes to fix it!
>
> Jess kiddin'. Here's what Microbesoft says about SP1:
>
> Service Pack 1 (SP1) provides the latest updates
> to the Windows 2000 family of operating systems.
> These updates are a collection of fixes in the
> following areas: setup, application compatibility,
> operating system reliability, and security. SP1 is
> not considered a required upgrade; Microsoft
> recommends that customers review the SP1
> documentation found under Learn More to determine
> whether to install SP1.
>
> > > yeeee haaaa!
> > >
> > > By the way, note that Service Pack is essentially
> > > a butt-fucking by Bill Gates.
> >
> > Kinda like how 2.4 is butt-fucking by hippies?
>
> Nasty, stinky, fat, Jolt-drinkin' hippies!
> With Cheez-Its on their beards!
and Yoo-Hoo, don't forget the chocolate "beverage". ;-)
--
"One by one the Penguins steal my sanity." (found printed on a T-shirt)
------------------------------
From: "2 + 2" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux growth underscores threat to Microsoft
Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:03:06 -0500
Chris Ahlstrom wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-4979275.html
>
>"Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer has acknowledged that
>Linux has become its No. 1 threat, and
>the IDC numbers underscore that position.
>Although the figures show that Windows shipments
>increased 20 percent, Linux outpaced it with a 24
>percent increase."
>
>What's weird about it is that, with Windows at
>41%, and Linux at 27%, 68% of the server market is
>running on PC OS's (more if you count Netware).
>
>I guess it's a tribute to PC hardware makers and
>network technology.
This is an interesting point.
The "PC" server market has no doubt attracted a broader spectrum of hardware
makers, since the pre-PC invasion hardware makers have seen the handwriting
on the wall--compete or die!
Also, the server market even within the Linux/Windows segment has a lot of
price differentiation. USB also has attracted a broader range of suppliers.
Finally, clustering has meant that low priced hardware components can be
used.
The effect of convergence will even be greater with Intel's McKinley chip.
2 + 2
>
>Chris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 18:09:38 -0800
From: John Rudd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.next.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why can't Apple do it?
Ziya Oz wrote:
>
> Some apps are better handled via local computing,
Those apps (which include things like games, which are very system
intensive) will drive forward the system requirements of the future.
That's the kernel of what Don and I were saying.
--
John "kzin" Rudd http://www.domain.org/users/kzin
Truth decays into beauty, while beauty soon becomes merely charm. Charm
ends up as strangeness, and even that doesn't last. (Physics of Quarks)
-----===== Kein Mitleid Fu:r MicroSoft (www.kmfms.com) ======-----
------------------------------
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