Linux-Advocacy Digest #155, Volume #33 Wed, 28 Mar 01 08:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: OSX Links - (Donn Miller)
Re: Distro Bigotry... ("Mart van de Wege")
Re: Communism ("Mart van de Wege")
Re: New worm infests Linux machines/Exposes root backdoor (Peter
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger! ("Andy Walker")
Now I know ("David Jordan")
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. (Giuliano Colla)
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. (Giuliano Colla)
Re: Distro Bigotry... ("Andy Walker")
Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP. (Giuliano Colla)
Re: New worm infests Linux machines/Exposes root backdoor ("Ayende Rahien")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 06:12:15 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OSX Links -
SamanthaJoy wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Donn Miller
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Red Hat and SuSE are in this to make money also. Red Hat is a
> > distributor of Open source software who is in open source industry for a
> > profit, and they actively contribute back to OSS by paying people to
> > hack the Linux kernel.
>
> And Apple has contributed the first consistant user interface for UNIX.
Actually, that would only become a contribution if and only if Apple
decides to license its GUI to the Unix community, or better yet, open
source its GUI. One possible contribution to the open source community
is that Apple has done the bulk of the work of porting the FreeBSD
kernel to the MAC/PPC platform. Well, that would only matter if the
FreeBSD team ever wanted to port their OS to MAC/PPC. There's a good
possibility, though, that they would just take some examples from NetBSD
instead of Darwin.
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------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Distro Bigotry...
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:54:24 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "spicerun"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Matthew Gardiner"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I am not too sure about your situation, however, I find that Redhat
>> (Redhat Linux 7) has little or no interest in KDE, as demonstrated by
>> their pathetic ability to include KDE 1.1.2 (which is bloody ancient)
>> with their distro, however, they were able to include the latest gnome
>> libs etc, so, from my little example, certain distro's have a
>> "so-called" biasness to certain destops etc.
>
> I have to agree with you here....and I think this is also tragic. FWIW
> Redhat's 7.0.90 release actually has the latest KDE release on it
> (excluding the KDE released just in the past couple of days).
>
> I'm still looking for a distro that supports all equally well. (I
> half-way expected Charlie to hop in and tell me that Debian does this
> and more). I wonder if slackware supports all the
> WindowManagers/Desktops equally? Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for the
> next greatest release of Debian (or the woody iso images, whichever
> comes first).
Well,
I haven't seen Charlie answer yet, so let me as an another Debian user:
yes, Debian does support KDE2.1. It supports it very well indeed, just do
'apt-get install task-kde'. There is a snag however: this is in the
unstable distribution, so KDE2.1 is not judged production ready yet by
the Debian team (don't know if it has moved to testing yet).
Aside from that, all window managers/desktop environments are supported
equally by Debian; as long as the meet the DFSG, Debian is agnostic as to
what you install.
HTH
Mart
--
Write in C, write in C,
Write in C, yeah, write in C.
Only wimps use BASIC, Write in C.
http://www.orca.bc.ca/spamalbum/
------------------------------
From: "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Communism
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:04:17 +0200
Crossposted-To: misc.survivalism,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,soc.singles
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> cHip wrote:
<snip some stuff>
>
> All of which, due to human nature, is COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE TO IMPLEMENT
> without a totalitarian police-state.
>
>
>>
>> Now on to why it doesn't work. I should note that I have very strict
>> hobbesian beliefs (dont know what that is? look up Thomas Hobbes) The
>> reason it doesn't work is that human nature prohibits it. Some people
>> could not stand being at the same level as the rest, some would try to
>> revolt and take leadership (there is none in communism). Many would try
>> to do this and guess what would happen? Feudal Wars all over again.
>>
>> Now I'm tired of writing, but I think I corrected a few people.
Uh Aaron,
Not to be nit-picky or such, but that's just what he proceeded to do. The
guy actually agrees with you as to why Communism doesn't work.
We know you hold no great love for left-wing policies, but next time read
a little better before flying off the handle, please?
Mart
--
Write in C, write in C,
Write in C, yeah, write in C.
Only wimps use BASIC, Write in C.
http://www.orca.bc.ca/spamalbum/
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: New worm infests Linux machines/Exposes root backdoor
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:44:18 +0200
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> Windows CodeName Whistler, Build 2296
> Uptime: 24 days, 19 hours, 23 Minutes, 20 seconds.
> Reason for last reboot: Needed to installed another PCI video adapter.
> Tasks for next reboot: Need to take out the PCI Video adapter.
> Next reboot due at: When I get XP final.
> Computer uses: Email, Internet, Development (C/C++, Java, VB, .NET,
> ASP), TS Server, firewall, internet connection sharing, Word/Power
> Point, IIS & FTP server (light load, except when developing).
>
Fine for you if those figures where true.
I don�t believe you.
By the way: Someone who puts all that stuff on a *production* machine
*and* puts a firewall too unto it shows clearly that he/she has no real
knowledge about firewalls at all.
IIS alone on that machine is enough to render the firewall meaningless.
A firewall *always* belongs on a different machine, except it�s a
playthingy like ZoneAlarm and the other Personal Firewalls.
Peter
--
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines
------------------------------
From: "Andy Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Arrrrgh! Hoist the Jolly Roger!
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:42:02 -0000
Chris Ahlstrom wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>As if anyone really cares:
>
>http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/howtotell/
>
>This URL appears at the bottom of a Sony VAIO
>ad. I wonder why this URL is there... has
>Sony been accused of chicanery with Illegal
>Copies of Windows?
>
>Make sure your COA is genuine!
>
>http://www.microsoft.com/piracy/howtotell/how/default.asp
>
>That way, only the best counterfeiters will be
>able to counterfeit Microsoft software.
>
> Report software piracy. If you come across a
> product you think may be illegal, we'd
> like to know about it. Send e-mail to
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your confidentiality is
> assured.
>
>Man, if I were an exec at the typical business,
>I'd be afraid to report ANYTHING to Microsoft.
>
>I'm tempted to be utterly juvenile, and send a note
>to the e-mail above stammering that somehow Linux
>got onto my Windows box. What am I to do????
>
>Chris
>
>--
>[ Do Not Make Illegal Copies of This Message ]
So much for honor amongst thieves. You would think Microsoft would be the
last people to complain about illegal activities!
------------------------------
From: "David Jordan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Now I know
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 11:11:24 +0100
At last I've understood why GNU/Linux was so stable,
it was just 'cause it could do nothing apart from simple
fork() and listening to a TCP port.
Now that it is starting to be taken as an alternative for
the desktop I see its ... let's call UI's are going to do all
the painful way Windows has already done through
unstability, incompabilities and the so.
I've recently switched from GNU/Linux for my
desktop (I am a GNU/Linux, Unix system administrator)
by a Windows 2000 Pro. Advantages = more stability
(believe it or not), better web surfing, boss documents
100% compatibility and by far better e-mail clients;
disadvantages = price (just it). GNU/Linux has
failed to develop a browser (Konqueror, Galeon,
Mozilla, Netscape or Opera are simply jokes,
anyway the best one is Opera ... not GPL).
But what's more, I am also switching from GNU/Linux
to Solaris my servers since Solaris is behaving by far better
than GNU/Linux is doing. Even for firewalling, I prefer
Checkpoint Firewall-1 to iptables (not to talk about
incomplete ipchains+ipmasqadm team).
There was a time when I thought that a GPL GNU/Linux
would take the world. Now I think it is slowly dying not
only as desktop (if alive at all) but as a server.
If any response, please ... leave my mother apart ;-)
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:49:15 GMT
Chronos Tachyon wrote:
>
> On Tue 27 Mar 2001 04:52, Giuliano Colla wrote:
>
> [Snip]
> >
> > A misadventure I had just today might shed some light in your problem by
> > a different point of view. Maybe it has nothing to do, but one never
> > knows.
> > I've been playing in the last days with a new box which is intended to
> > be the firewall/router for our new ADSL connection.
> > I started with a blank 20 GB HD and I've installed Suse, Mandrake and RH
> > to find out which one was more suitable for the job (hardware support,
> > security settings, available admin tools, etc.)
> > Each time I was reinstalling from scratch, because I wasn't interested
> > in keeping the previous version. As each install doesn't take much more
> > than twenty minutes, I repeated the full cycle more than once.
> > Well, after the umpteenth install, the next one simply was refusing to
> > start because of "no room to install". With a 20 GB disk which I had
> > declared all available, it appeared quite weird. I tried both Mandrake
> > 7.2 and RH 7.0, and both were giving the same sort of error. As the
> > previous install was still there, I tried fdisk and cfdisk and both
> > claimed to be unable to re-read the partition table after they had
> > written it.
> > So I decided to wipe clean the disk somehow, and tried Partition Magic
> > (the standalone version which boots from floppy). Well, Partition Magic
> > once started, produced an error dialog of an inconsistency in the
> > partition table, and asking if I wanted it fixed. Once fixed, I didn't
> > proceed further, and tried again the installation, which, this time went
> > smoothly with no problem.
> > My conclusion: some weird corruption of the partition table may fool
> > completely both Mandrake and RH install, without affecting normal
> > operation. Any relation with your problem?
> >
> >
> [Snip]
>
> Just a quick note: if you don't care about the contents of a hard drive
> and you want to obliterate a corrupted partition table, "dd if=/dev/zero
> of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=1" followed by a plain-jane "fdisk" should work
> wonders. Slackware boot floppies are perfect for this purpose, even if you
> don't want to install Slackware.
>
Thank you for the tip. I had no idea that the problem was on
the partition table corruption until I was told so by PM,
and when I learned it went fixed with just a click, but now
that I've learned the symptom it may be helpful for next
time.
--
Giuliano Colla
Before activating the tongue, make sure that the brain is
connected (anonymous)
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:51:46 GMT
Brian Rourke wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> Sounds like you had a fun day.
>
Sort of the fun you had installing your Linux!
But once it's over you feel good.
--
Giuliano Colla
Before activating the tongue, make sure that the brain is
connected (anonymous)
------------------------------
From: "Andy Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Distro Bigotry...
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:01:42 -0000
Matthew Gardiner wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>I am not too sure about your situation, however, I find that Redhat (Redhat
>Linux 7) has little or no interest in KDE, as demonstrated by their
pathetic
>ability to include KDE 1.1.2 (which is bloody ancient) with their distro,
>however, they were able to include the latest gnome libs etc, so, from my
>little example, certain distro's have a "so-called" biasness to certain
>destops etc.
>
>Matthew Gardiner
>
>spicerun wrote:
>
>> Over the weekend, I had the 'privilege' of installing Suse Professional
>> 7.1. Everything went in just fine except that I was disappointed on a
few
>> items. One minor point I noticed was that the way Suse formatted their
>> startup screen still looks like the distro was thrown together in a hurry
>> contrast to Redhat's distro that looks more like an HP Unix or AIX
machine
>> coming up in their startup screens.
>>
>> What blew me away though was that Suse is apparently so biased in their
>> preference for KDE as a desktop, they only throw in token packages for
>> Gnome....and make it very hard (if not nearly impossible) to use Gnome as
>> my desktop. Having to switch to the twm desktop and add a script to the
>> menu for the twm desktop so that Gnome can be launched is ridiculous.
And,
>> even if you do get Gnome launched, it is very minimal packages.....not
all
>> of Gnome packages are available.
>>
>> Since I prefer Gnome, I ended up going back to the Redhat 7.0.99 Beta so
>> that I could run my desktop of choice......And, at least with Redhat, I
>> can also switch (via 'switchdesk') to KDE with hardly any effort.
>>
>> It just makes me wonder why a 'good' distro like Suse just has to force
>> you into such situations to where you will only pick what they want -- I
>> thought the idea behind Linux was to have the ability to run whatever
>> desktop you want. I'm just very disappointed about the way Suse handled
>> the choices for their users.
>>
>> At any rate, I'm still on Redhat until the next Debian comes out
>> (hopefully Jully?). I really hope Debian is much more friendly to
>> customization and lets you run what you want.
>
If you are interested in getting people to convert to Linux, it makes sense
to create a distribution running an up to date KDE desktop. The idea being
that converting over from Windows will be less painful for the user. RedHat
however have a different market hence are more concerned with stability than
getting the latest version.
What I'm basically trying to say is that it is a case of "horses for
courses". Who would want kernel 2.4 and X11 v4 on a server when stability is
a primary concern and graphical display virtually uneccesary?
What you need to do is find a distribution that suits your application, not
pick one at random then complain about the contents.
I'd love a dist that had the latest kernel and X release but I wouldn't
complain if it was slightly unstable!
------------------------------
From: Giuliano Colla <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I regretfully conclude that Linux is a piece of CRAP.
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:05:51 GMT
Brian Rourke wrote:
>
> On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 00:22:02 GMT, Giuliano Colla
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
[snip]
> >
> >But you're of a different sort. You've tried to organize your HD at best
> >for your needs, without being a Linux hacker, and that's completely out
> >of the normal pattern.
>
> Is this your nice way of calling me a weirdo? :)
>
No, but you're a weirdo in the market perception of the
distro. Making perhaps them address only the people who
would never install Linux by themselves, and forgetting
those who would. I read once a nice definition of "public
opinion": it's what people think that people think. I'm
afraid that a lot of marketing strategies are based upon a
similar assumption.
> >
> >That's the way things appear to go. Is it the good way? I have some
> >doubts. But then let's not blame Linux for that. It goes deeper to the
> >roots.
>
> Ok, point taken. In fact, I think I owe everyone an apology for not
> making a strong or clear enough distinction between the particular
> Linux distributions that I'm criticizing and the whole Linux
> enterprise. I tried to indicate the limits of my experience and of my
> comments, but I didn't know the lingo well enough to phrase my rant as
> precisely as I would have liked.
>
> Obviously, I think the whole enterprise is perhaps worthwhile, or I
> would not have put in so much time (however misguidedly) trying to get
> it to work.
>
> I do think, though, that it is the job of the distros to anticipate
> problems and anomalies (such as myself, if I am one), and to find ways
> to educate and assist their customers in dealing with such situations.
> That was the kind of thing that set me off.
>
You're right to be set off. What I was pointing is that the
distros follow a general trend of addressing a target made
of dumb people, making people even dumber, and failing to
satisfy the non dumb portion.
Microsoft has given a not negligible contribution to this
trend.
--
Giuliano Colla
Before activating the tongue, make sure that the brain is
connected (anonymous)
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New worm infests Linux machines/Exposes root backdoor
Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:02:29 +0200
"Peter K�hlmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > Windows CodeName Whistler, Build 2296
> > Uptime: 24 days, 19 hours, 23 Minutes, 20 seconds.
> > Reason for last reboot: Needed to installed another PCI video adapter.
> > Tasks for next reboot: Need to take out the PCI Video adapter.
> > Next reboot due at: When I get XP final.
> > Computer uses: Email, Internet, Development (C/C++, Java, VB, .NET,
> > ASP), TS Server, firewall, internet connection sharing, Word/Power
> > Point, IIS & FTP server (light load, except when developing).
> >
> Fine for you if those figures where true.
> I don�t believe you.
> By the way: Someone who puts all that stuff on a *production* machine
It's not a production machine, of course.
It's a development machine.
I thought is was obvious when I mentioend Development.
> *and* puts a firewall too unto it shows clearly that he/she has no real
> knowledge about firewalls at all.
> IIS alone on that machine is enough to render the firewall meaningless.
> A firewall *always* belongs on a different machine, except it�s a
> playthingy like ZoneAlarm and the other Personal Firewalls.
IIS is only for the intranet.
The firewall is there for the rest of the machines that use this computer to
reach the Internet.
------------------------------
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