Linux-Advocacy Digest #461, Volume #33 Mon, 9 Apr 01 06:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: another example of why Linux is brain dead. (mat@cd)
Re: another example of why Linux is brain dead. (Matthew Gardiner)
Re: Chimp in TV program downloads Linux to talk (Matthew Gardiner)
Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V (Was: t. max devlin: kook) (Rob S. Wolfram)
Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure ("David Brown")
Re: Undeniable proof that Aaron R. Kulkis is a hypocrite, and a (Chris Street)
Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000? (Per Espen Hagen)
Re: Freedos (Anthony Campbell)
Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant (Alexis Cousein)
Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant (Alexis Cousein)
Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant (Nick Maclaren)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:47:38 +1200
READ THE FUCKING MANUAL. If you don't like it, use a fucking type writer. Yeah,
I'm pissed off. Yes, I am fucking �litist! people should earn the right to use
a computer!
Matthew Gardiner
WGAF wrote:
> "Robert@-" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <2oRz6.92517$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "WGAF"
> says...
> >
> > >
> > >> Like RPM? I installed KDE 2.1.1 (upgrade from 2.1) by doing this:
> > >>
> > >> $ for i in qt kdebase kdelibs kdegames ...; do rpm -U $i/*; done
> >
> > >
> > >As oppose to downloading a single executable, running it once the dowload
> > >finished and it's done? Linux really shines in that respect, doesn't it?
> > >
> > >Otto
> >
> > Otto,
> >
> > This is Unix mind set, it has nothing to do with Linux only.
> >
> > If you suggest one solution to unix people that could make it little
> > easier to the end user, they respond with 20 other alternatives
> > using the most convoluted and absured ways to do it, and they wonder
> > why you would not try one of those unix ways.
> >
> > They will never get it.
>
> That seem to be the case..
>
> >
> > Any suprise windows, with all its faults, has 90% of the desktop
> > marker, and %45 of the serve market?
> >
> > Well, Unix only had 35 years to understand the end user, they might want
> > another 35 years more still, and I bet they will never get it.
>
> Unix isn't even close to understand the end users, which is the fault of the
> Unix admins. For them the end user is stupid, called end losers. Forgetting
> the fact that people do have a life after work and they don't want to learn
> anything about OSes, apps, etc. They just want to use the damn machine
> without become like one of the Unix admins.
>
> >
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you do not like it go: [rm -rf /home/luser] and
have a nice day :)
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:49:06 +1200
LOL, and you forgot, they aren't sold at astronomical prices! OMG!
Matthew Gardiner
Bob Hauck wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Apr 2001 19:51:35 +0000, Gary Hallock
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> <sarcasm warning>
>
> >You can always get the CD if you don't want to download all the files:
> >http://www.kde.org/cdrom.html
>
> But that's not fair! It isn't free, and Linux is supposed to be free
> isnt' it? You Linvocates are all big liars!
>
> >And if you want to download, why one file at a time? You can download
> >multiple files at once.
>
> Impossible. Linux doesn't have any good file managers or browsers or
> anything else an average user needs.
>
> >Download the files all at once and then:
> >
> >rpm -U *.rpm
>
> That's way too hard. You had to _type_!! Man, you Linux geeks are all
> big losers who don't understand the average user who has better things
> to do than to learn how to use the box he paid $2000 for.
>
> You _hafta_have_ a self-extracting binary to click on! Get outa the
> '80s man!
>
> >What is not real about Gnome and KDE?
>
> They aren't made by Microsoft!
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| To Whom You Are Speaking
> -| http://www.haucks.org/
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you do not like it go: [rm -rf /home/luser] and
have a nice day :)
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: lack of linux billionaires explained in one easy message
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:52:30 +1200
I wonder if WGAF can say V-I-S-O C-O-R-P
Matthew Gardiner
GreyCloud wrote:
> WGAF wrote:
> >
> > "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >
> > > Caldera is already having troubles from what I've heard on the net.
> > > (A lot of things are heard about different things.) But since its still
> > > Linux
> > > people will weigh what is it that they're getting for their money? The
> > > average user
> > > doesn't need it. The 5 user license more than likely can be
> > > circumvented by looking around for the equivalent for free. The spirit
> > > of Linux is just that... free and good.
> >
> > No, the spirit of Linux is to circumvent. If that doesn't work, then crack
> > it...
>
> Yep, and the spirit of Mafia$oft is to covertly steal others works.
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you do not like it go: [rm -rf /home/luser] and
have a nice day :)
------------------------------
From: mat@cd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: another example of why Linux is brain dead.
Date: 8 Apr 2001 23:03:28 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthew says...
>
>Why didn't you ask for help?
maybe becuase using a CDROM should not require one to ask for
help and read documentations? (assuming one is using windows).
>
>I read the documentation, and actually follow the instructions, and voila, I
>have
>a working CD-Writer. So get over it, and grow up.
You HAD to read documentations and FOLLOW instructions to use a CDwriter
and a CDROM??
It is true what they say, linux is free for people whose time is worthless.
/mat
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: another example of why Linux is brain dead.
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 18:58:14 +1200
First of all, I said CD-WRITER YOU FUCKING LUSER
Second of all, get a type writer and give everyone a break.
Thirdly, why did you use Linux?
Go back to Windows and spend $NZ2200 +GST on Office and Win2K, I am sure you
would love to donate that sum to the "Bill Gates needs more cash from lusers
foundation".
Matthew Gardiner
"mat@cd" wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Matthew says...
> >
> >Why didn't you ask for help?
>
> maybe becuase using a CDROM should not require one to ask for
> help and read documentations? (assuming one is using windows).
>
> >
> >I read the documentation, and actually follow the instructions, and voila, I
> >have
> >a working CD-Writer. So get over it, and grow up.
>
> You HAD to read documentations and FOLLOW instructions to use a CDwriter
> and a CDROM??
>
> It is true what they say, linux is free for people whose time is worthless.
>
> /mat
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you do not like it go: [rm -rf /home/luser] and
have a nice day :)
------------------------------
From: Matthew Gardiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Chimp in TV program downloads Linux to talk
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 19:06:24 +1200
Hence the reason why the New Zealand financial system relys on
IBM Mainframes running AIX, and the New Zealand Stock Exchange uses UNIX
for their mission critical applications, and Linux on non critical
servers. Work and Income New Zealand uses an UNISYS Mainframe running
UNIX to handle over 1 Million records. I wonder why they don't use NT?
I also wonder why Microsoft never releases a financial result for
their NZ subsidiary?
Matthew Gardiner
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Bloody Viking
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on 8 Apr 2001 00:26:39 GMT
> <9aob7v$3p6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >Kelsey Bjarnason ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> >
> >: So let's put this in context. Who are the Lone Gunmen?
> >: They're a group of socially inept ultrageeks with an
> >: extreme paranoia about business and government being
> >: "out to get" them, and the little guy in general. Now
> >: certainly not all Linux users fit that category, but if
> >: you look around, there do seem to be a few vocal ones
> >: who do. You draw the conclusion about the choice of
> >: picking Linux for the show. :)
> >
> >The funny part is that a chimp is easier to convert to
> >Linux than the Windows sheeple. Would you rather be an
> >ape or a sheep?
>
> Chimps don't get brainwashed by ad campaigns such as
> the "99999" one (which translates to < 1 second of
> downtime per day, or about 315.36 seconds = 5 minutes,
> 13.36 seconds a year). :-)
>
> Mind you, I think Win2k could do it. But I also think
> Unix has been doing this since I don't know when.
> Congratulations Microsoft for finally making it into
> the 1990's. :-) (Or maybe the 1980's?)
>
> [.sigsnip]
>
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
> EAC code #191 1d:21h:58m actually running Linux.
> Linux. The choice of a GNU generation.
--
Disclaimer:
I am the resident BOFH (Bastard Operator From Hell)
If you do not like it go: [rm -rf /home/luser] and
have a nice day :)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob S. Wolfram)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,soc.singles
Subject: Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V (Was: t. max devlin: kook)
Date: 9 Apr 2001 07:18:48 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
>message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
[snip]
>> - Control/C, Control/X, and Control/V
>
>I remember using RH 6, with copy, cut, paste, were alt instead of ctrl, it
>drove me *mad*.
I have no idea where the choice for these keybindings originated, but is
surely is a *very* poor choice. The Ctrl-[letter] combinations have had
a special meaning since the early days of ASCII. Why they had to be
abused for copy/cut/paste is a mystery to me.
How am I supposed to send an INT signal to an application that
interprets the ^C itself (where using the multitasking abilities of the
underlying OS is not an option)?
Cheers,
Rob
--
Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> OpenPGP key 0xD61A655D
Giraffiti, n.:
Vandalism spray-painted very, very high.
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: US Navy carrier to adopt Win2k infrastructure
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:48:03 +0200
Goldhammer wrote in message ...
>
>AFAIK, ext2 supports files up to 16Eb. The reason
>why files >2 Gb on 32-bit machines require the
>'bigfile' patch has to do with the size of int
>on a 32-bit machine. But linux on an Alpha doesn't
>have any 2 Gb "limit". Therefore, the 2 Gb "limit"
>cannot be considered limitation of Linux. It simply
>isn't, unless one argues that Linux on an Alpha isn't
>really Linux.
>
Yes, the 2 Gb limit is simply a case of 2 Gb being the largest value that
can be stored in an signed 32-bit int. Any application that wants to use
larger files can do so by using different library calls (changed
automatically with compiler switches for gcc) and being careful with their
types in the program. There are also kernel patches to enable larger file
limits - these have been around for a long time, and should be easy to
apply. And for 64-bit systems, the limits were never there in the first
place.
Any big database system on unix (or windows) should allow you to split the
database files - recent versions MySQL, for example, have no problem with
that.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Street)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Undeniable proof that Aaron R. Kulkis is a hypocrite, and a
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 07:46:53 GMT
On Mon, 09 Apr 2001 01:21:48 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>>
>> Jan Johanson wrote:
>> >
>> > "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > ALL newsreader software that has an ID string has it embedded
>> > > within the source code. It's a simple matter or editing it with
>> > > vi and running make to disguise both the newsreader and the OS.
>> > >
>> > > And since on Linux...you have the source code....
>> > >
>> > > Well, I'll leave the rest as an exercise for the reader.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Hey fuck head - yea you, dildo breath.
>> >
>> > Reply to this message, but change the header to indicate you are posting on
>> > a Mac instead.
>> > Should be effortless for a l33t programmer like yourself.
>> >
>> > If you can do that I'll believe a tiny fraction of what you say.
>> > If you cannot or will not that you are a fucking liar and we've all known it
>> > forever.
>>
>> JJ, go to ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/source/
>> and download one of the tar.gz files yourself.
>> Oh, you might not know how to unpack it, so go ahead
>> and download the ZIP version instead.
>>
>> It unpacks to only about 22 Mb of code and text, so you should
>> find it effortless to track down what you're looking for, JJ.
>
>Grep is your friend.
Twenty minutes with it will not reveal what you need though
>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> --
>> [ Do Not Make Illegal Copies of This Message ]
79.84% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
The other 42% are made up later on.
In Warwick - looking at flat fields and that includes the castle.
------------------------------
From: Per Espen Hagen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy,alt.solaris.x86,comp.unix.solaris
Subject: Re: Is StarOffice 5.2 "compatible" w/MS Office 97/2000?
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:49:30 +0200
Rich Teer wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Apr 2001, Per Espen Hagen wrote:
>
> > I would like to know then, what format would *you* use if you need to send a
> > mail where plain ASCII is just inadequate? For instance, if you need tables
[...]
> Honestly, I think too many people favour form over content.
Sure, but I would prefer good content with good form over good content with
lousy form. Maybe good form is indicative of poor content in your experience,
but for others, it is quite the opposite, and they are more likely to read and
take seriously a nicely formatted document. You can dislike this all you
want, but this last group of people may very well include your boss, your
customer, or someone else whose opinion may have serious impact on your
livelihood.
> > it as an HTML document and send it as an HTML attachment. Please tell me
> > about a better solution; I certainly can't think of any.
>
> Use a web page, or send it as PostScript.
Unfortunately, most PC users don't know what to do with a PostScript file.
And very few of them have PostScript viewers installed.
Web page or HTML attachment -- well, sometimes one is better, sometimes the
other. It's certainly easier for me to send an HTML attachment than to upload
my document to a Web server. Most people don't have their own Web server.
And sometimes you want a document to at least appear to be private.
--
Per Espen Hagen
http://sunfun.s5.com/ -- Get multimedia software for Solaris x86
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Campbell)
Subject: Re: Freedos
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:33:05 +0100
On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 05:18:15 GMT, Martha H Adams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi, Anthony. I've heard a little about this freedos, and maybe many others
>here besides myself would be interested. Where did you get it from? Any
>comments on installing and running it?
>
Go to www.freedos.org; all the info and files are there. The standard
method is to install via floppy, but as I already had a Dos partition I
installed from the hard disk, which is easier and quicker. For this, you
only need two files: one is the base distribution (1.2M) and the unzip
program (unzip.zip). You need this because pkunzip doesn't work
properly. If you don't have a Dos partition you'd have to make a floppy
install disk, much as you do for Linux.
The instructions for hard disk installation are a bit unclear. The trick
is to use the unzip program. I just unzipped the base.zip file to a
suitable directory (c:\freedos) and then went to that directory and
unzipped everything; this makes appropriate directories (c:\freedos\bin
etc.) and places the various files in the right places.
All you have to do then is to make an autoexec.bat file which includes
c:\freedos\bin etc. in your path instead of c:\dos, and there you are.
>Can freedos manage megabyte files and big trees? It might be very good to
>run in laptops. So can you fill us in a little?
>
>Thanks -- Martha Adams
>
>
I don't know about large files etc but I think it would probably work,
though the docs say that there is a 500M limit on hard disk size at
present.
Freedos seems to be still a work in progress and I don't think provides
the full functionality of MSDos-6.2, though it has most of it and it
seems to be under active development. It has quite a sophisticated
command.com but I use 4Dos as the shell (which works perfectly). For my
purposes it's fine, because I use Dos mainly to boot linux via loadlin
and to run a few programs under dosemu. When I boot freedos directly it
runs my old WP, Protext, which is pretty demanding as regards memory,
and also runs Fractint. I don't play any games so I can't say anything
about those.
Anyway, give it a try; you don't risk anything and you can easily delete
it if you don't like it.
Anthony
--
Anthony Campbell - running Linux Debian (Microsoft-free zone)
For electronic books (Homeomythology and The Assassins of Alamut), skeptical
essays, and over 120 book reviews, go to: http://www.cix.co.uk/~acampbell/
"Orthodoxy is my doxy, heterodoxy is another man's doxy."
D[William Waburton]
------------------------------
From: Alexis Cousein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.arch
Subject: Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 11:45:26 +0200
Rick C. Hodgin wrote:
>>> Well, the physical address bus is 36 bits these days, which means 64gb,
>>
>> While arguably you could use these to support a kernel that handles more
>> than 4GB, I doubt many *applications* would actually be able to use more
>> than 2 or 4GB, at least not without another ILP model than that normally
>> used (ILP32).
>
>
> I doubt there are any kernels that would need more than 4GB.
I doubt any application would see memory the kernel it's running on
doesn't see ;).
> But as
> far as accessing more than 4GB in an application, that is very easy.
"Very easy"? Pray tell us how you address more than 4GB if your ABI has
all your pointers contained in 32-bit integers, except if you use
extension mechanisms (yes, these do exist -- we all remember the mess
DOS expanded and extended memory was -- I would never have said using
these was "easy" though).
--
Alexis Cousein Senior Systems Engineer
SGI Belgium and Luxemburg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Alexis Cousein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.arch
Subject: Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 11:47:24 +0200
Eric Smith wrote:
> Probably not enough of a win to be worthwhile, though. Personally, I have
> yet to encounter an executable bigger than 1.5G.
Oh, there's also such things as stack and data ;).
--
Alexis Cousein Senior Systems Engineer
SGI Belgium and Luxemburg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nick Maclaren)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.arch
Subject: Re: IA32, was an advocacy rant
Date: 9 Apr 2001 09:57:32 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Alexis Cousein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|>
|> > But as
|> > far as accessing more than 4GB in an application, that is very easy.
|>
|> "Very easy"? Pray tell us how you address more than 4GB if your ABI has
|> all your pointers contained in 32-bit integers, except if you use
|> extension mechanisms (yes, these do exist -- we all remember the mess
|> DOS expanded and extended memory was -- I would never have said using
|> these was "easy" though).
Take a look at the VS Fortran features for MVS/ESA. They were (and
maybe are) definitely "easy" to use, though perhaps not "very easy".
The reason that this particular extension is different from getting
out of the 16-bit hole is that the latter affected every pointer,
code and data. Yes, it can be and has been done in a user-friendly
way. Not by Intel, though.
Regards,
Nick Maclaren,
University of Cambridge Computing Service,
New Museums Site, Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG, England.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel.: +44 1223 334761 Fax: +44 1223 334679
------------------------------
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