Linux-Advocacy Digest #715, Volume #34 Tue, 22 May 01 23:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("Matthew
Gardiner")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("Matthew
Gardiner")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("Matthew
Gardiner")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("Matthew
Gardiner")
Re: Intermediate user who left Windows for Linux ("Richard J. Donovan")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("Matthew
Gardiner")
Re: Warning to new users of Windows XP ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("Matthew
Gardiner")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux Advocacy - Wintroll Mission ("Paolo Ciambotti")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (Craig Kelley)
Re: which linux dist? ("Richard J. Donovan")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust! ("Ayende
Rahien")
Re: Linux Mandrake Sucks!!!! ("Richard J. Donovan")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. (Craig Kelley)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:08:21 +1200
"Ian Pulsford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> JS \\ PL wrote:
> >
> > I have to say, Linux Mandrake 8 was looking real damn good. Support for
all
> > my hardware (for once) easy set-up, even seting up networking and
connection
> > sharing was painless. Good newsreader - Knode, pretty stable OS. I even
> > liked the fact that it stayed connected to the Internet when switching
users
> > (unlike Win2K) I was actually contemplating using it much more often and
> > only using Windows for apps I need to use that aren't available on
Linux.
> > But....
> > Well after half a day checking out the new XP OS, I have to say IT KICKS
> > MANDRAKE ASS!!
> > Internet connection stays when switching users! And get this -
Applications
> > even stay open and are there (still open) when returning to that user.
> > That's just the tip of the iceberg. Of course the browser still kicks
ass,
> > and copy and paste is still much much better between apps, as opposed to
the
> > hit and miss copy/paste support in Linux. Ohh I could go on and
endlessly
> > list how much better XP is than Mandrake. Once again the Linux community
is
> > playing catch up to the industry leader. Competition at it's finest!
> > Thank You.
>
> Does this read like paid astroturfing or what!
>
No, his mummy and daddy allowed him to use the computer for 30 minutes
today, thus he is extremely excited.
JSPL, maybe you should stick to playing hand-puppets in your parents
basement.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:11:51 +1200
"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 22 May 2001 17:27:53 -0400,
> John Wiltshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tue, 22 May 2001 14:09:25 -0400, "JS \\ PL"
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >>I even
> >>liked the fact that it stayed connected to the Internet when switching
users
> >>(unlike Win2K)
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> >>Internet connection stays when switching users!
> >
> > Umm... This ability has been there since NT 3.51.
> >
> > Fire up your registry editor and add the following REG_SZ:
> >
> > HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\
> > Winlogon\KeepRasConnection = 1
>
> While you're at it,
>
> Fire up your registry editor and add the following REG_SZ:
>
> HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows 98\CurrentVersion\
> BSOD\random = 0
>
> This should improve the stability of your Win98.
Even with the change, it still crashes. Maybe the BSOD is a built in
feature that cannot be changed :)
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:13:27 +1200
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3b0acee0$0$2605$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Donn Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > JS \\ PL wrote:
> >
> > > Well after half a day checking out the new XP OS, I have to say IT
KICKS
> > > MANDRAKE ASS!!
> > > Internet connection stays when switching users!
> >
> > You mean you lose your internet connection whenever you log out? It's
> > the way you have KDE set up that is at fault, because kppp is exiting
> > when you logout. But you should be able to login to your provider with
> > a command-line equivalent of ppp, so that your internet connection will
> > stay up once you start it, no matter who logs in or out.
>
> No, above he said that Mandrake DID keep the connection OPEN, and
> existing Windows did not.
>
> Windows XP DOES keep it open now as well.
Solaris has had that feature, well, since I sarted using it, version 2.6
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:15:06 +1200
"Jan Johanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3b0b007f$0$56137$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Fred K Ollinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9eejc5$ctu$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Where do I download a copy of win xp?
> >
>
> Same place you download an easy to install, easy to learn, easy to use
copy
> of Linux.
>
> nowhere...
>
http://www.linux-mandrake.com/en/
Maybe you should use a search engine next time.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: "Richard J. Donovan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Intermediate user who left Windows for Linux
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 02:22:01 GMT
Techno Barbie wrote:
> * * *
> Needless to say, I was somewhat offended and upset
> because I had to "prove" myself. The support person was going to give me a
> new code to activate the program, after I gave her information about my
> system, but I was upset how I was treated, so I told her to forget it.
> Besides Word 2000 was not much different than Word 97 anyway.
Right -- Word 2000 still doesn't measure up to WordPerfect. And with
Linux you get the command line and lose the BSOD in the bargain.
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:23:27 +1200
> I have to say, Linux Mandrake 8 was looking real damn good. Support for
all
> my hardware (for once) easy set-up, even seting up networking and
connection
> sharing was painless. Good newsreader - Knode, pretty stable OS. I even
> liked the fact that it stayed connected to the Internet when switching
users
> (unlike Win2K) I was actually contemplating using it much more often and
> only using Windows for apps I need to use that aren't available on Linux.
Well, thats nice to hear. However, I am waiting for the bitching to start.
> But....
> Well after half a day checking out the new XP OS, I have to say IT KICKS
> MANDRAKE ASS!!
BINGO! right on schedule. "IT KICKS MANDRAKE ASS!! Oh what an indepth
analysis, please, you are so logical, could you water the details down a
little.
> Internet connection stays when switching users! And get this -
Applications
> even stay open and are there (still open) when returning to that user.
> That's just the tip of the iceberg.
You can do this in Linux, just remember to click "save session", then click
ok. When you log in next time, all the programs that were open will be
restored.
> Of course the browser still kicks ass,
I use Opera 5.0, which is already non-beta. It is extremely stable and
reliable, and uses hardly any memory vs. IE 5.0 foot print of 12megs.
> and copy and paste is still much much better between apps, as opposed to
the
> hit and miss copy/paste support in Linux.
Works perfectly for me. Select text, the click on the scroller wheel, and
voila, the text/picture etc is pasted.
> Ohh I could go on and endlessly
> list how much better XP is than Mandrake. Once again the Linux community
is
> playing catch up to the industry leader. Competition at it's finest!
> Thank You.
Gee, and as a conclusion, a cheap comparision, based on viewing. Maybe you
should work for Microsoft because you are so easily convinced with screen
shots and hype, Microsoft needs more people in the marketing department who
are easy to impressed.
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Warning to new users of Windows XP
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 02:25:59 GMT
On Wed, 23 May 2001 14:05:25 +1200, "Matthew Gardiner"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Ok, I am not a conspiracy theorist but here is my spin in it.
>
>Hypothetically, when Windows XP nobody gives a shit about WPA, and the
>majority of end lusers buy it. Now there are two senarios that will happen:
>
>1. This OS will probably hang around for 18 months to two years depending on
>the progress of .net. During the time they will be be giving activation
>codes for those who install Windows XP v1.0, however, what is going to
>happen after Windows XP v2.0 is released? will Microsoft continue to give
>out activation codes for Windows XP 1.0? or will they just say to Joe Shmo
>that because he upgraded a significant portition of his hardware, and that
>Microsoft no longer supports, aka give out activation codes for it, he will
>have to upgrade to Windows XP 2.0. I can honestly see it happening.
My prediction is that within 5 minutes of it going gold the warez
groups will be flooded with it.
flatfish
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 05:09:22 +0200
"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Tue, 22 May 2001 20:32:54 +0200,
> Ayende Rahien <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3387/1/
> >
> > I can't say I don't agree.
> >
> > Some points:
> > A> The linux desktop company he's talking about is likely Mandrake.
> > B> He agrees with Daniel about users getting computer/OSes/shells not
for
> > the sake of the computer/OS/Shell, but for the applications that it run.
> This is an old retort, and you can't neatly seperate them imho.
>
> For instance, the OS plays a big part in what aplications you CAN run. If
> I want to run GUI apps *remotely*, MS cant help me.
Sure it can.
Terminal Server will do it just fine.
> > Comments, anyone?
> > OK, well, let us be realistic?
> > Flames, anyone?
> Hahah why flame you, you're quite reasonable :)
I *am* posting to an advocacy groups, that seems to be the only requirement.
------------------------------
From: "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 14:26:02 +1200
> > When will you learn, Chad? There is no "you guys." Linux users are
> > best defined by their diversity. What I like, another user may
> > despise. From more or less the same large set of packages that are
> > collectively called a Linux system (or, to make RMS happy, a GNU/Linux
> > system), we are all able to pick, choose, and configure to create the
> > desktop or server environment in which we are most comfortable.
> >
> > Those who cannot handle such choice simply accept whatever Microsoft
says
> > is the only way to do things this week.
>
> You mean, those who want some semblance of choice AND still have their
> OS work, use Windows. If you want lots of choice, but many bugs, crashes
> and UI oddities and flakiness, use GNU/Linux.
>
I beg to ask, what UNIX/Linux/*BSD experience do you have?
Matthew Gardiner
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: 22 May 2001 20:27:51 -0600
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/opinions/3387/1/
> > >
> > > I can't say I don't agree.
> > >
> > > Some points:
> > > A> The linux desktop company he's talking about is likely Mandrake.
> > > B> He agrees with Daniel about users getting computer/OSes/shells not for
> > > the sake of the computer/OS/Shell, but for the applications that it run.
> > > C> He seems to agree with me that you can't offer a slightly-less or equal
> > > product in order to convice people to switch, you need something vastly
> > > sueprior.
> > >
> > > Comments, anyone?
> > > OK, well, let us be realistic?
> > > Flames, anyone?
> >
> > Anyone who uses Linux as a replacement for Windows is asking for
> > trouble. Use Linux because you like UNIX/Linux, not because you hate
> > Microsoft; any other motive will result in disapointment (just like
> > when I use Windows -- it never fails to disapoint me).
> >
> > I've been running 100% Linux for so long that I can't even figure out
> > how to do many things inside Windows 2000. It literally took me an
> > hour to figure out how to change the video driver (I couldn't
> > right-click on the desktop to do it anymore).
>
> Um... sure you can. There isn't a Windows since Windows95 that you
> can't do that.
Please explain.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Advocacy - Wintroll Mission
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 19:32:32 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Unknown"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>> Because you slap a CD and it works. Plain and simple.
Good. Now come on over and fix the fuckin' Windows registry on my wife's
PC. All she did was uninstall some printshop type programs to make room
for a new game and now the dreaded "your system has become unstable"
message pops up every two minutes.
Yeah, it just works. And you're selling beachfront property in Arizona.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: 22 May 2001 20:30:49 -0600
"Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >
> > Anyone who uses Linux as a replacement for Windows is asking for
> > trouble. Use Linux because you like UNIX/Linux, not because you hate
> > Microsoft; any other motive will result in disapointment (just like
> > when I use Windows -- it never fails to disapoint me).
> >
> > I've been running 100% Linux for so long that I can't even figure out
> > how to do many things inside Windows 2000. It literally took me an
> > hour to figure out how to change the video driver (I couldn't
> > right-click on the desktop to do it anymore). I'm sure others have
> > similar problems going the other way and think that UNIX is
> > problematic.
>
> Why couldn't you right click?
>
> Even if you didn't know anything, Control Panel > Add Hardware (also lets
> you replace drivers).
> Or Control Panel > System > Hardware > Device Manager.
> Or Start > Programs > Administrative Tools > Computer Management > Device
> Manager.
> Or Right click the desktop > propeties > settings.
I'd swear it didn't let me install a new video driver using that last
method (it had the braindead-VGA-fresh-from-install driver
installed). I'll double-check.
> > In short: Windows 2000 is a horrible desktop *for me* (may it RIP).
>
> Maybe, but I doubt it should've taken you an hour.
It did. I can understand how Windows users feel in Linux.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: 22 May 2001 20:32:01 -0600
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > Not to mention new innovation. Everything that was out there for
> > > Linux was either a rehashed 30-year old app with a new GUI
> > > front end, or a cheap knock-off of a current Microsoft app.
> >
> > I seem to remeber smug Apple users saying the same thing about a
> > certain other OS a few years ago... look what has happened since.
>
> That was their (rather misguided and uneducated) opinion. Win95
> was hardly a MacOS knock-off. There were many new features that
> Apple wouldn't come to know for another 5 years (until MacOS X).
I suspect we'll be saying that about *your* comments eventually.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Richard J. Donovan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: which linux dist?
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 02:35:53 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Sat, 19 May 2001 12:14:15 +0100, root <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >
> >I am currently using Slackware as I find it extremely fast and powerful.
> >
> >But now that I have a bit of money :) I don't know if to buy Red Hat
> >Deluxe edition or Mandrake 8.0
> >
> >I tried Mandrake 8.0 and it is brilliant as everything works out immediately
> >but I found it a bit too slow and painful to get rid of all the services i
> >did not really need.
> >
> >Which distribution would you recommend?
>
> SuSE 7.1, or whatever the latest version is.
>
> flatfish
SuSE 7.1, if only for the contrast to Slackware -- YaST2 and many other
nice configuration tools. And still stable and fast, of course.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: 22 May 2001 20:37:33 -0600
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Oh puh-leeze. Perhaps if Windows came with any useful software I
> > would consider using it; as it comes now it's simply a glorified
> > typewriter until you spend hours updating and installing by hand.
>
> So which is it? If it comes with apps, then MS is an evil monopoly
> trying to squish out all app vendors and competitors, if they
> don't then they're just a glorified typewriter.
>
> Which is it?
I didn't realize that Microsoft had been sued for including
development tools, perl, an ssh daemon, low-latency remote access, a
good shell, wget, a real editor (take your pick), etc. etc.
Take a look at all the very cool packages that come with Linux (and
MacOS X, I must add...) nowadays.
> > EXPLORER.EXE is horrible when compared to Nautilus.
>
> WinXP.
Yay, pay us more money again.
> > I'll be the first
> > to stand up and admit that Linux isn't for everyone, but to say that
> > it isn't a good "desktop" is silly because it's all relative.
>
> Linux has lots of eye candy, too bad it's all broken crap that doesn't
> work.
Just because you have to be smarter than a slug to use it. Sorry
Chad, but really.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 05:35:47 +0200
"Interconnect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9eeplc$rc4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Besides apart from compatibility reasons what percentage of MS users would
> use the ADVANCED features of Office? I believe business would take
advantage
> of some of these components however the *AVERAGE* user, we are so fond of
> talking about, would hardly use any of the advanced functionality of WORD,
> EXCEL let alone MS Access, Powerpoint and Project Manager.
Compatability? I can get a WordViewer for free, and it will let me cut &
paste to any half-way decent word proccessor.
Certainly to older versions of Word.
I don't need to buy new versions for that.
Word 97/2000 viewer:
http://office.microsoft.com/downloads/2000/wd97vwr32.aspx
Power Point 97/2000/XP viewer:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/xp/appndx/appa13.htm
There are viewers for everything else, too.
AFAIK, the only file format change in XP was in Power Point.
> I have to laugh the new Office XP is going to allow users to write their
own
> custom XML routines for dynamic and context sensitive interaction with the
> application. NOW all of a sudden all the Windows advocates have a love of
> *scripting* XML. (which involves typing, an action similar to how CLI
> works). This is going to be a big HIT with the *AVERAGE* user? I think
> this is aimed at advanced users in the corporate market.
Facinating stuff, that, isn't it? So all this Office' macros VBA, (which
invovle typing, an action similar to how CLI workd), is also useless?
What about writing a document in Word (which invovle typing, an action
similar to how CLI work), is that for advanced users in the corporate market
only too?
> Linux has less than 5% of the desktop market. Why are you Windows guys so
> worried about Linux? Live and let live, use what works for you.
Um, no, Linux has less than 2%, not 5%, that is Macs.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just when Linux starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 05:42:50 +0200
"Interconnect" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9ef3s8$c16$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> To use Linux Red Had7.1 or Mandrake 8.0 straight out of the box is not so
> difficult. For the Average user who wants to surf the web, write
documents,
> and use spreadsheets Linux is MORE THAN CAPABLE of performing these
> functions with limited fuss.
No one denies that you can do that on Linux.
The question is whatever it's easier/more comfortable to do it on Linux than
on something else?
> I have written applications for both Windows and Linux, I don't think that
> C/C++ is any easier or difficult on either platform. I must admit that the
> MS Visual IDE is *nice* especially the debugger, but NOTHING that can't be
> overcome with judicious use of logging.
IOW, you have to do extra work...
> Certainly developing database applications for say MS Access Vs MySQL or
> Postgress all present different challenges. I wouldn't say that MS Access
is
> inherently *EASIER* than other database packages. They are all different
and
> have their own advantages and disadvantages.
Ms Access is not a competer against MySQL. While Access can be used as a
database, it's really not up to par with MySQL, nor is it supposed to be.
Access is supposed to be a tool for accessing the database *with*.
> Don't pretend that you know how to use ALL of the Microsoft applications
to
> their full potential->* BECAUSE IT'S NOT THAT EASY*.
I don't think that I know how to use ANY of MS applications to their full
potential.
However, when I want to do something that I don't already know, it's fairly
easy to find out how to do this.
*That* is a major test of easy to use, IMO.
> (Thats the Microsoft
> Myth) In the end experience counts. If you look at job ads they
generally
> seek experienced users in a particular *area* of computing.
Of course, computing is a *large* area.
> The company
> does not advertise for anyone with an arm and a leg, under the assumption
> that "we are running MS products they are easy to use, therefore we can
just
> hire anyone." Do you understand the point I'm trying to convey?
Easy to use doesn't mean, flat learning curve, you know.
> Similarly Linux has many more applications some of which are NOT GUI
based,
> this seems to throw many Windows users who only know how to interact with
a
> computer using a GUI menu system. Again leading to the *MYTH* that Linux
is
> difficult to *use*. In reality it's different and like anything different
> it takes time to build up a skill set to be come a reasonably competent
> operator.
The difference is that GUI is more natural, it allows trial & error
learning, which is much better ingrained into us than mere reading the docs.
> Also if you want to self educate yourself that Linux provides FAR MORE
> OPPORTUNITY by way of community and documentation for an individuals
ability
> to *LEARN* contrast this to windows documentation and community which is
> woeful, charging for MSDN is a disgrace.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/ is avialable to anyone, for free.
> This is a Microsoft *MYTH* users still need lots of training
> to become productive, even Microsoft users.
You seem to like the word myth, don't you?
Well, it's a myth that easy to use mean flat learning curve.
------------------------------
From: "Richard J. Donovan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux Mandrake Sucks!!!!
Date: Wed, 23 May 2001 02:45:35 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Fri, 18 May 2001 14:53:08 -0700, Michael Vester
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I will rely on your expertise to keep us up todate with the latest
> >incarnation of Flatfish. I capitalize Flatfish's name because it is a
> >proper noun. If Flatfish was a fish, I would not capitalize. But I give
> >the same respect to the name Flatfish as I would give to any other name.
> >This posting was distinctly the work of Flatfish, even to my untrained
> >eyes.
>
> You wasted your time. Flatfish "IS" a fish. Study the Mariana Trench
> sometime and you learn.. Actually it is called "The Flatfish".
>
> flatfish
Actually, it is called the "flatfish." Unless it's like Elvis, in which
case it's "The Flatfish." Or perhaps it's like Elvis in the U.K.,
whence "The Flatfish". But then, actually, one would call it `The
Flatfish'.
Study orthography sometime [blah, blah, blah].
P.S. Mandrake doesn't suck. It just isn't as good as SuSE.
P.P.S. Time for The Glenlivet.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: 22 May 2001 20:47:15 -0600
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> > Oh puh-leeze. Perhaps if Windows came with any useful software I
> > would consider using it; as it comes now it's simply a glorified
> > typewriter until you spend hours updating and installing by hand.
>
> So which is it? If it comes with apps, then MS is an evil monopoly
> trying to squish out all app vendors and competitors, if they
> don't then they're just a glorified typewriter.
>
> Which is it?
[sorry for the double follow-up]
Show me *one* good, free image viewer that is as capable as any of the
standard Linux viewers. *That* is why I dislike Windows; every
niggling little thing costs $20 (shareware) to $500 in order to fill
in the same thing Linux does for free.
Meanwhile, *all* hard-core Windows users pirate warez like there's no
tommorow and then have the gall to stick their noses up at us
provincial, honest users. They harvest license numbers, burn ISO
images from those lame file-sharing servers and DCC connections; then
they wonder why we use Linux.
Sure, the Windows software may have a few more features, but more
often than not the Linux equivalents have other features not present
in the Windows versions (is there an equal to cdparanoia for Windows
yet?? It's only been 4 years now). Some software packages simply
aren't available for Linux in any form (Quark, Access) -- but that's
only important if you *require* those packages.
The Linux desktop is here to stay and it will get better, just like
the pathetic Windows 3.0 evolved into Windows 2000 (and Windows 3.0
was out before Linux even existed). Laugh at it now, but enjoy
yourself now, because you'll be running it, or a close cousin of it
sometime in the future (unless Windows goes open-source, which would
be great).
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
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