Linux-Advocacy Digest #267, Volume #35 Fri, 15 Jun 01 14:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux wins again.... ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: MSnbc calls MS on MS's FUD campain! ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: netscape 6.1 - anyone? ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed (Todd Merritt)
Re: IBM Goes Gay (Peter Hayes)
Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows (Rocketboy)
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows (Andrew Nesbit)
Re: More microsoft innovation (Macman)
Re: the world thinks there is only windows. yahoo sucks. (Brian Langenberger)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:33:19 -0400
drsquare wrote:
>
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 12:04:58 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> (Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >drsquare wrote:
>
> >> >Unless the installation program replaces some key Windows DLLs
> >> >or mungs some Registry entry.
> >>
> >> Never happened with me. Every single program I've downloaded (and
> >> that's a LOT) has installed flawlessly. With Linux, I'm lucky if it
> >> installs at all, and that's AFTER downloading all the packages and
> >> dealing with all the conflicts. And if you're compiling from source,
> >> you may as well just not bother.
> >
> >Well, golly gee, I've had the opposite experience. Quite often
> >an installed product (usually a Microsoft product) has fucked
> >up my machine (or at least some of the apps that it runs).
> >And at least two apps (Word 2000 and Visio 2000) run slow and
> >act cranky on my box at work.
>
> Well, I have had the complete opposite experience. Apart from Word
> being infinitely inferior to LyX.
>
> >On Linux, I've compiled from source, installed using RPMs, and
> >copied software by hand. All has worked flawlessly, except for
> >compiling nmap, and that's probably because of Red Hat's
> >gcc-2.96 snafu.
> >
>
> Well, you must have an awful lot of dependencies and libraries already
> there.
Translation: I, drsquare, don't install the commonly used libraries...and
then wonder why they aren't available for my apps.
Booooooo fucking hooooooo.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 13:33:49 -0400
Neil Ellwood wrote:
>
> Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> >> dependencies and conflicts worked out. That's the good thing about
> >> Windows, you just download the installation programs and install
> >> it, you don't have to bother about all the dependencies and package
> >> conflicts etc.
> >
> > Unless the installation program replaces some key Windows DLLs
> > or mungs some Registry entry.
> >
> I know what you mean.
> I have a win printer (panasonic KX-P6300) that prints beautifully BUT
^^^^^^^^^^^
LOSE printer
> windows keeps losing the dll but now that I have Mandrake 8.0 I
> normally just use the canon 3000 that I have via pci printer port (
> also connected to wifes comp via usb) and only reinstall windows when
> several things go walkabout.
> --
> Neil
> Remove SPIDER to reply as in -
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
L: This seems to have reduced my spam. Maybe if everyone does it we
can defeat the email search bots. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
K: Truth in advertising:
Left Wing Extremists Charles Schumer and Donna Shalala,
Black Seperatist Anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan,
Special Interest Sierra Club,
Anarchist Members of the ACLU
Left Wing Corporate Extremist Ted Turner
The Drunken Woman Killer Ted Kennedy
Grass Roots Pro-Gun movement,
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:12:17 +0200
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > "Dealing with the rest has proved tricky, even for people who are
accustomed
> > to this sort of problem. "
>
> apt-get install gnucash
>
> Where's the problem?
GnuCash is on debian unstable. The dependedcies might cause you to download
a lot of unstable share libraries. I understand that in some case, it might
overwrite the stable versions that you already got.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux wins again....
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:15:19 +0200
"Andrew Nesbit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:GFpW6.8739$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Meaningful benchmarks are about as common as honest politicians.
You know what they say about honest politicains, they stay bought.
Meaningful benchmarks are the ones that *you* run, using your configuration,
on the configuration that you need.
It cost a *lot* of money to do it this way, though.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MSnbc calls MS on MS's FUD campain!
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:19:18 +0200
"Ian Pegel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9gd75o$ic3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > MSnbc (remember what the MS stands for) shines a light on MS FUD!
>
> God I'm stupid! But what does FUD mean?
Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt
Memorize that, you'll hear it a lot on *.advocacy groups.
Fouled Up Disinformation is a more polite way of interupting it.
Then again, it *has* other meanings:
Female Urinary Device is one of them.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:24:15 +0200
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> The LWN writer was frustrated at having to install a lot of new versions
> to get the latest gnucash working, and exaggerated the situation as "DLL
> Hell", forgetting that new shared libraries won't break old apps. "DLL
> Hell" refers to an installer overwriting an old DLL with a new one,
> mysteriously breaking old apps.
And vice versa,don't forget.
The DLL Hell is the result of developers ignoring the guidelines set by MS
regarding dll's behaviour.
You are supposed to keep the same filename as long as you've backward
compatability nailed down.
If you break it, you are supposed to pick another name.
And installers shouldn't write over newer versions with old files.
Unfortantely, those guidelines has been ignored all too often, causing this
problem.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: netscape 6.1 - anyone?
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:27:16 +0200
"Richard Thrippleton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <9gce0q$1o7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> >"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:50:05 +0200, Ayende Rahien <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > "Burkhard W�lfel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> >message
> >> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> Did anyone of you try out ns6.1 preview yet?
> >> >>
> >> >> I wonder if it is "advocable"...
> >> >
> >> > No, it isn't.
> >> > If you want to advocate something, advoacte Mozilla.
> >>
> >> Yep, and Mozilla is fantastic these days!
> >>
> >> > Advocating NS is about as hopeless as advocating Win3.0 as a server
> >platform
> >>
> >> Exactlyseing as Netscape is now ownedby AOL!
> >
> >You *are* aware that a large precentage of the work on Mozilla is done by
> >paid AOL employee's, are you?
> I certainly wasn't.... thanks for the info. This explains a hell of
> a lot.... like the 60 second startup time, the expansion to fill all
> available RAM.... *shudder*.
I understand that for some (STUPID!) reason, they loaded the whole bloody
JVM at *startup*.
That is now being loaded at per need basis.
The XUL desicion was a mistake as well, I believe. And the decision to focus
on such a breadth of subjects also delay Mozilla terribly.
It should've been "let's us get a good browser *first*, everything else
later".
If they wanted the other stuff as well, they should've taken it from the old
code. But their first priority should've been to get a browser to the market
ASAP.
In the meantime, their market share declined rapidly. They couldn't react to
changes in the market, and the only recourse left for them was non Win/Mac
platforms.
http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$47
> I converted to Links a few months ago, and have never looked back
> since.
Links? You hear about all sorts of software here, but this is new.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:28:50 +0200
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > I so LOVE it when someone claims to have killfiled (or better yet,
actually
> > done it) - it is the ultimate proof that that person is not willing to
> > consider anything but what they believe is true - very blind indeed...
>
> Aaron is an exception, though.
I run a google search on the number of people who has him killfiled,
apperantly over 1000 people did.
I think it's some sort of a record.
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_q=kulkis&as_oq=killfile%20plonk
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:30:05 +0200
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > > (And then they expect us to fall over wounded because some lame
> > > I'm-going-out-of-buisiness Windows magazine is doing a publicity stunt
> > > for some sustainted advertising dollars)
> >
> > That's rich. Oh, that's precious. A linvocate trying to talk about
> > "going-out-of-business" and trying to make some dollars? given the
> > "performance" of EVERY single "linux" related company you can think of -
I
> > find that laughable.
>
> Like IBM and Oracle?
>
What precentage of IBM/Oracle resources is directed at Linux?
------------------------------
From: Todd Merritt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 09:39:52 -0700
On 15 Jun 2001, . wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Jon Johansan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >> (And then they expect us to fall over wounded because some lame
> >> I'm-going-out-of-buisiness Windows magazine is doing a publicity stunt
> >> for some sustainted advertising dollars)
>
> > That's rich. Oh, that's precious. A linvocate trying to talk about
> > "going-out-of-business" and trying to make some dollars? given the
> > "performance" of EVERY single "linux" related company you can think of - I
> > find that laughable.
>
> IBM makes the largest, fastest parallel clusters in the world. See the
> ASCI series, also Blue.
>
Err, ASCI Blue is an SGI.
------------------------------
From: Peter Hayes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:48:17 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 00:02:27 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (The
Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
> I never did get to work on the 6809. The 68000 isn't bad, but came
> out late -- but it was reasonable and had 32-bit addressing logically,
> if not physically
The nearest I got to the 68000 was a Texas Instruments TI44/A (IIRC) that
was thrown out. Sadly, I never really got it going properly, there was some
hardware problem and I eventually chucked it.
The Sinclair QL had a version of the 68000, but, like IBM, they picked the
low cost version that had an 8-bit bus instead of the 16-bit version,
thereby more or less destroying the benefits of the 68000.
I bought a book on the 68000, still got it, seemed a nice chip.
> So how did we all get stuck with that incredible piece of bodgework,
> the 8088?
It really is, isn't it.
> Blecch. I hope IBM can make up for that by heavily promoting Linux... :-)
They sure owe us.
Peter
------------------------------
From: Rocketboy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:57:01 GMT
drsquare wrote:
> With Linux, I'm lucky if it installs at all, and that's AFTER
> downloading all the packages and dealing with all the conflicts.
Obviously you haven't sorted out all the conflicts and installed all
the packages, or the software would work.
If you have so much trouble installing Linux software, it only seems
logical that you don't use Linux very often. If you don't use Linux
very often, it's only logical that you don't really know what you're
doing with it. If you don't really know what you're doing with it, it's
logical that you'd have trouble doing something basic like installing
software. QED.
A poor workman blames his tools.
--
Rocketboy (rocketboy74_at_home_dot_com)
PGP encrypted email prefered.
Get my key at http://members.home.net/rocketboy74/pkey.txt
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:58:51 GMT
drsquare wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 16:07:40 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
>>apt-cache showpkg gnucash
>>...
>>Dependencies:
>>1.4.12-1 - gdk-imlib1 (2 1.9.10-3) libart2 (2 1.2.13-6) libaudiofile0 (0
>>(null)) libc6 (2 2.2.3-1) libdb3 (2 3.2.9-1) libesd0 (18 0.2.20)
>>libesd-alsa0 (2 0.2.20) libglib1.2 (2 1.2.0) libgnome32 (2 1.2.13-6)
>>libgnomesupport0 (2 1.2.13-6) libgnomeui32 (2 1.2.13-6) libgtk1.2 (2
>>1.2.10-1) libgtkxmhtml1 (2 1.2.13-6) libguile9 (2 1:1.4-11) libjpeg62 (0
>>(null)) libpng2 (2 1.0.10) libxml1 (0 (null)) xlibs (4 4.0.3) zlib1g (2
>>1:1.1.3) libwww-perl (0 (null)) slib (0 (null)) scm (0 (null)) guile1.4 (0
>>(null)) guile1.4-slib (0 (null)) perl (0 (null)) eperl (0 (null))
>>libgwrapguile0 (2 0.9.1) gnuplot (0 (null))
>>
>>Wow, that is a lot of dependencies. Good thing the
>>package manager takes care of it all automatically.
>
> You've still got to go and get all the packages yourself.
>
Well, sure I don't. I just tried it. I'll put a transcript of
installation (and uninstallation) below. My input to the installation
consisted of typing 'apt-get install gnucash' followed by entering
the letter 'y'. And yes, I did launch gnucash just to make sure it was
really this easy.
# apt-get install gnucash | tee logfile
Reading Package Lists...
Building Dependency Tree...
The following extra packages will be installed:
eperl guile-common guile1.4 guile1.4-slib libguile9 libgwrapguile0
libregexx0
scm slib
The following NEW packages will be installed:
eperl gnucash guile-common guile1.4 guile1.4-slib libguile9 libgwrapguile0
libregexx0 scm slib
0 packages upgraded, 10 newly installed, 0 to remove and 103 not upgraded.
Need to get 4743kB of archives. After unpacking 12.9MB will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
Get:1 ftp://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main eperl 2.2.14-2 [133kB]
Get:2 ftp://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main guile-common 1:1.4-12 [8522B]
Get:3 ftp://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main guile1.4 1:1.4-12 [25.7kB]
Get:4 ftp://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main guile1.4-slib 1:1.4-12 [7576B]
Get:5 ftp://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main libguile9 1:1.4-12 [597kB]
Get:6 ftp://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main libgwrapguile0 0.9.12-3 [7632B]
Get:7 ftp://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main libregexx0 0.96-1 [27.8kB]
Get:8 ftp://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main scm 5d3-5 [486kB]
Get:9 ftp://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main slib 2c9-3 [505kB]
Get:10 ftp://ftp.de.debian.org unstable/main gnucash 1.4.12-1 [2945kB]
Fetched 4743kB in 3m3s (25.8kB/s)
Selecting previously deselected package eperl.
(Reading database ... 36490 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking eperl (from .../eperl_2.2.14-2_i386.deb) ...
Selecting previously deselected package guile-common.
Unpacking guile-common (from .../guile-common_1%3a1.4-12_all.deb) ...
Selecting previously deselected package libguile9.
Unpacking libguile9 (from .../libguile9_1%3a1.4-12_i386.deb) ...
Selecting previously deselected package guile1.4.
Unpacking guile1.4 (from .../guile1.4_1%3a1.4-12_i386.deb) ...
Selecting previously deselected package slib.
Unpacking slib (from .../archives/slib_2c9-3_all.deb) ...
Selecting previously deselected package guile1.4-slib.
Unpacking guile1.4-slib (from .../guile1.4-slib_1%3a1.4-12_i386.deb) ...
Selecting previously deselected package libgwrapguile0.
Unpacking libgwrapguile0 (from .../libgwrapguile0_0.9.12-3_i386.deb) ...
Selecting previously deselected package libregexx0.
Unpacking libregexx0 (from .../libregexx0_0.96-1_i386.deb) ...
Selecting previously deselected package scm.
Unpacking scm (from .../archives/scm_5d3-5_i386.deb) ...
Selecting previously deselected package gnucash.
Unpacking gnucash (from .../gnucash_1.4.12-1_i386.deb) ...
Setting up eperl (2.2.14-2) ...
Setting up guile-common (1.4-12) ...
Setting up libguile9 (1.4-12) ...
Setting up guile1.4 (1.4-12) ...
Setting up slib (2c9-3) ...
Running /usr/sbin/guile1.4-slibconfig
Setting up guile1.4-slib (1.4-12) ...
Setting up libgwrapguile0 (0.9.12-3) ...
Setting up libregexx0 (0.96-1) ...
Setting up scm (5d3-5) ...
Setting up gnucash (1.4.12-1) ...
# su me gnucash
# apt-get --purge remove $(grep -A 2 "NEW packages" logfile | tail -n 2)
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
eperl gnucash guile-common guile1.4 guile1.4-slib libguile9
libgwrapguile0 libregexx0 scm slib
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 10 to remove and 103 not upgraded.
Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 12.9MB will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y
(Reading database ... 37155 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing gnucash ...
so not removed.
Removing eperl ...
Removing guile1.4-slib ...
Removing libgwrapguile0 ...
Removing guile1.4 ...
Removing guile-common ...
Removing libguile9 ...
Removing scm ...
Removing libregexx0 ...
Removing slib ...
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Dennis Ritchie -- He Created Unix, But Now Uses Microsoft Windows
From: Andrew Nesbit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:01:26 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>octopus...it's a Latin word...therefore, the plural is Octopi.
>:-)
Octopus is from Greek, not Latin, and there is no such word as "octopi".
The plural is "octopuses" or "octopodes".
-Andrew
------------------------------
From: Macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More microsoft innovation
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:08:26 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > Surely you see the difference in a browser implementation where you build
> > in the function of setting colors and fonts and changing the content.
> > Netscape has this "What's related", it's basicvally the same thing as NS is
> > pulling, but it's -awa- from the webpage. Changing colors and fonts are for
> > some a neccesity in order to read your page. Autodetecting words and
> > linking them to MS sites falls into the "bad sport" arena, and they should
> > have made a different implementation of that idea.
>
> I think you still don't understand what the Smart Tags do.
>
> The "content" of a page is not changed. And it's not just "MS sites" -
You're wrong. The content of a page most certainly _is_ changed.
Links are part of the content of a page. Adding links is a change.
> you can go directly to the home page of the company in question. The
> other info - "Company News", "Company Report", "Stock Quote" does take
> you to related news on MSN, but so what? It has to go somewhere.
How about where the web page author intends?
And I most certainly would NOT want links on my page going to MSN.
That's one of the most biased sites on the internet.
> Would you feel better if it went to Yahoo? Or Apple (it they had a
> news page)? If I want an instant stock quote it doesn't make any
> difference to me where it comes from
If instant stock quotes were the only link ever used, you might have a
point. Many, many other links exist and the choice of where to send
someone can make a difference.
>
> Also, it's OFF by default. It must be turned ON first.
Which is irrelevant. Microsoft is moving from controlling the browser to
controlling the content. Personally, I don't wish to see them cross that
line.
>
> It's a nice feature that many people will find useful. Those that
> don't can turn it back OFF (the default). It's not the big deal some
> folks here seem to think it is.
It's not the trivial issue others seem to think it is.
No matter how you look at it (if you bother looking rationally), it is a
big deal.
>From a creative author's standpoint, it's very negative since Microsoft
is changing the content of the site. In fact, to the extent that the
links are one element of the author's intent, Microsoft is even changing
the intent of an author's site.
>From a practical standpoint, it's negative. Microsoft is now able to
steer ALL INTERNET USERS to their site -- regardless of what the viewer
wants.
>From a business standpoint, it's negative. It gives Microsoft the
ability to usurp the web sites of their competitors -- or even companies
they don't like much.
>From an advocacy standpoint, it's negative. Microsoft can effectively
deface the pages of anyone supporting alternatives to the MS monopoly.
It has a huge number of negatives and few, if any positives.
------------------------------
From: Brian Langenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: the world thinks there is only windows. yahoo sucks.
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 18:09:21 +0000 (UTC)
Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
:> http://vision.yahoo.com/?id=1457763&aid=5016
:>
:> yahoo is as stupid as any business out there which only makes its
:> web pages to one platform.
: They are not stupid.
: They are smart.
They are not smart.
"Anyone who slaps a 'this page is best viewed with Browser X' label on a
Web page appears to be yearning for the bad old days, before the Web,
when you had very little chance of reading a document written on another
computer, another word processor, or another network."
-Tim Berners-Lee in Technology Review, July 1996
: They tailor their business to 90% of the browsers out there.
: Ever heard of the 80-20 rule? A good rule to abide by.
: You linux users will never understand. <sigh>
I do understand that the above page has 185 errors in its HTML,
according to www.w3c.org's HTML validator. If they're not bright
enough to write a standards-compliant web page that anybody
can read, why bother putting it on the web at all?
And sticking a "browser X only" JavaScript error on it only
highlights their ineptitude.
------------------------------
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