Linux-Advocacy Digest #272, Volume #35 Fri, 15 Jun 01 17:13:05 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" ("Jon Johansan")
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Macman)
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" (Craig Kelley)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Macman)
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux wins again.... (Zsolt)
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed (Peter
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?=)
Re: Will MS get away with this one? (Form@C)
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows makes good coasters ("Stuart Fox")
Re: What does XP stands for ??? ("Stuart Fox")
Re: Opera ("Stuart Fox")
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell" ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" ("Ayende Rahien")
The other astroturfers. ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: LIVE TEEN CAM in my ROOM! ("Bobby D. Bryant")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 14:45:17 -0500
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9gdlb9$22p$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:3b2a2f5c$0$817$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9garkb$ne0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > "Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:28:00 -0500, Chad Myers
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Since when has accuracy or truth mattered to Netcraft?
> > > >
> > > > Since when have they mattered to you?
> > >
> > > Since when have they mattered to anyone on this groups?
> >
> > Matters to me. I was under the impression it mattered to you Ayende.
Isn't
> > that why we post here?
>
> If accuracy was my goal, I would've gone and read boring white papers. :-)
> Or visit non advocacy groups. In which I mostly lurk.
>
> These groups are about advocacy, not accuracy.
I understand but I only enjoy advocacy when armed with facts I hope are as
accurate as possible.
> I'm here because often enough, the discussions are interesting, and it's a
> nice diversion from code that would probably be better understand if it
were
> in micro-code.
>
> I read SF for the same reason.
>From your previous posts I was under the impression that you tended to only
join conversations in which you were able to provide factual dataum
supporting your points of view. I think you don't give your accuracy credit
as much as the advocacy it produces.
I too enjoy SF for the distraction value; but enjoy that it stimulates my
thoughts into sometimes thinking differently about something; or getting an
entirely new viewpoint on something I've previously thought about. I've
often come away from reading in advocacy (most often in threads I'm not
engaged in, sadly) and testing some new claim or idea - or perhaps
revisiting something I'd given up on because someone reported a much
different account of their experience with a product than myself. Like
Agent. I had originally given up on Agent because of several shortcomings I
found intolerable. Lurking in a thread that drifted to newsreads I found a
discusion about some of the very shortcomings I had abandoned Agent for - I
tried it again and have been pleased to find it usable again.
Ignoring who may choose to believe this or not; I'm in these forums lately
because I've had several external pressures to resume an interest in Linux
which I had abandoned during the early 90s with a sour disappointment in the
product. Several threads in the linux advocacy group prompted me to read
more and recently I've found myself running Linux on a spare laptop to
reeducate myself and reconsider it's use. In this case I haven't found any
incentive to abandon W2K but I have at least satisfied my curiosity that
Linux has addressed some problems I initially had with it - unfortunately
others remain and some new ones have emerged. I continue to evaluate it.
In this forum, however, I find it just amazing how much utter crap and
bold-faced lies are propogated with FUD layered atop, around and support
them. I'm inextricably drawn to these threads and injecting my own views as
a driver is to view an accident as he passes. Weird...
It's all fun to me... :0
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: 15 Jun 2001 14:46:13 -0500
"Mig" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9gdnp2$r6v$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Jon Johansan wrote:
>
> > Well, "DLL Hell" is no longer a valid concept or issue in Windows 2000
or
> > XP. Looks like that legacy has been taken up by linux - taken from the
> > front page of Linux Weekly News (http://www.lwn.net/):
> >
> > "gnucash 1.6 and the dependency nightmare
> >
> > gnucash is perhaps the prime example of shared library dependency hell.
> > The executable requires no less than 60 different shared libraries, all,
> > of course, with the right version."
> >
> > I'm sorry but... har! har! har!
> >
> > "Upgrading to GNOME 1.4 addresses many of those dependencies, but not
all
> > of them."
> >
> > Sure, just upgrade
> >
> > "Dealing with the rest has proved tricky, even for people who are
> > accustomed to this sort of problem. "
>
> Hmmmm... some end user app needs 60 libs and you talk about DLL hell....
> What the heck.. ill program soem fancy "hello world "for Windows using 200
> libs and break the record....
>
> Maybe you should know a bit more about DLL Hell.. its not about the number
> of libraries but about the versions of the libraries installed.
I never said anything about 60 libs or quantity versus versions. The Linux
Weekly news editor did. I just posted the quotes.
Hello World in W2K wouldn't take more than 60 libs.
------------------------------
From: Macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:47:09 GMT
In article <9gdm1o$35d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Rick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Ayende Rahien wrote:
> > >
> > > "Macman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > > You, as a user, have certain rights under the fair use doctrine.
> > > > Presumably, looking at the text only, or changing fonts, or similar
> > > > things would fall under fair use.
> > > >
> > > > Microsoft, as a third party, does not have the same rights. They do
> have
> > > > the rights to fair use, but what they're doing would almost certainly
> > > > not fall under that doctrine.
> > > >
> > > > Your analogy stinks.
> > >
> > > Don't I, as the user, have a right to *want* those smart tags?
> >
> > You do not have the right to change my intellectual property, unless I
> > grant you that right.
>
> Google change the look of pages, as does anonymizer.com, should they be sued
> as well?
>
>
Neither Google nor anonymizer changes the _content_ of pages. If they
start changing the content, then they should be stopped.
Note that you're the one bringing up suing them.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: 15 Jun 2001 13:49:19 -0600
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > The LWN writer was frustrated at having to install a lot of new versions
> > to get the latest gnucash working, and exaggerated the situation as "DLL
> > Hell", forgetting that new shared libraries won't break old apps. "DLL
> > Hell" refers to an installer overwriting an old DLL with a new one,
> > mysteriously breaking old apps.
>
> And vice versa,don't forget. The DLL Hell is the result of
> developers ignoring the guidelines set by MS regarding dll's
> behaviour. You are supposed to keep the same filename as long as
> you've backward compatability nailed down.
And you're supposed to write bug-free code too! Welcome to happy
magical fairy land! If people would just stop "ignoring the
guidelines set by MS", everything would be just great!
> If you break it, you are supposed to pick another name.
> And installers shouldn't write over newer versions with old files.
>
> Unfortantely, those guidelines has been ignored all too often,
> causing this problem.
You're obviously not a developer if you can say *that* without
laughing. Those damn 3rd-party developers; just breaking the law in
order to mess up your system. Ha ha ha ha; as if they need more
problems to take on themselves.
It's Microsoft's fault -- just look at all the fun problems with
Office sometime; you'd think that Microsoft's own development team
would be able to nail this "simple" rule. The truth is, developers
are imperfect and Microsoft's library system cannot tolerate
imperfections.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:48:41 GMT
In article <9gdm1r$35d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Macman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > Dan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > Macman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Microsoft isn't changing anything. *I* changed the appearance on
> *my*
> > > > > computer. I can also turn off graphics, sounds, videos, change
> fonts
> > > > > and sizes, background colors, etc.
> > > >
> > > > You as the user have the right to do that under fair use doctrine.
> > > >
> > > > Microsoft does not have the right to do that for millions of users.
> > >
> > > Again Joe, Microsoft didn't do anything. *I* did by turning on the
> > > feature. Just as *I* can "change your page" by changing fonts, colors,
> > > turning off graphics, sounds, etc. There is no difference.
> >
> > Go read up on Fair Use.
> >
> > You as the user have different rights than a third party would.
>
> No third party involved here.
Really? Microsoft isn't a third party?
So when I view a web page using MSIE with Smart Tags, there are only two
parties?
Then either I'm the author of every web page in the world or I own
Microsoft.....
Wooohooo! I'm rich.
>
> > Furthmore, Microsoft most certainly _did_ make a change. Copyright law
> > doesn't care whether you turned the feature on or not. The fact that it
> > exists at all is a violation of the author's copyright.
>
> No, MS gave you the tool to make the change, it didn't make the change.
Microsoft's product makes the change. You're taking an incredibly stupid
position.
------------------------------
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: 15 Jun 2001 13:50:03 -0600
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:3b2a1c7a$0$789$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Well, "DLL Hell" is no longer a valid concept or issue in Windows 2000 or
> > XP. Looks like that legacy has been taken up by linux - taken from the front
> > page of Linux Weekly News (http://www.lwn.net/):
> >
> > "gnucash 1.6 and the dependency nightmare
> >
> > gnucash is perhaps the prime example of shared library dependency hell. The
> > executable requires no less than 60 different shared libraries, all, of
> > course, with the right version."
> >
> > I'm sorry but... har! har! har!
> >
> > "Upgrading to GNOME 1.4 addresses many of those dependencies, but not all of
> > them."
> >
> > Sure, just upgrade
> >
> > "Dealing with the rest has proved tricky, even for people who are accustomed
> > to this sort of problem. "
>
> Version hell (as it should be called) is nothing new to DLLs. All shared
> library environments encounter it at some point or another. Even Java has
> this problem to some extent. Of course, it's vogue to just bash MS
> for it, because they are the root of all evil, right?
Well, when they keep on having the same problem over and over and over
and over again... This is what we like to call stupidity.
--
It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a slot on your ATX videoboard
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Zsolt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux wins again....
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 19:59:05 GMT
Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sat, 16 Jun 2001 00:42:30 +0800
presented us with
the wisdom:
>
> Linux could be 500% faster than w2k, and I still woudln't switch.
>
> Why?
>
> Because I can get my *work* done with w2k, and I can do my *gaming* with
> w2k, and with *zer0* crashes.
>
Windows could be 500% faster than Linux, and I still wouldn't switch!
Why ?
Because I can get my *work* done with Linux, and I can do my *gaming* with
Linux, and with *zer0* crashes, and with no frustration, no regular re-installs.
> W2k just wins because it has so much more built in functionality, more
> ease-of-use, tons of built in support for hardware, and just far easier to
> use overall.
>
Linux just wins because it has so much more built in functionality (on a
Linux Mandrake Deluxe 6 CD pack I get soo many applications for $80,
that I'd have to spend a thousand times that much for W2k applications
to match the functionality).
Ease of use is a _very_ relative term. I'm much more at ease on Unix than
on windows. When some of my friends have problems with their computers
(of course they are using windows as it came with the machine when they
bought it and they wouldn't know how to install an OS), they always come
to me for help as I'm the "expert computer guy" they know. Then I have to
strugle with their broken systems to get it back to life and in those times
I feel extremely frustrated with the hardness of windows UI. E.g. why the
hell can't I paste by a single mouse click ? Sometimes the Ctrl-C then Ctrl-V
combination works, but not into or out of a CLI window , that simply doesn't
support copy and paste, period. What is it - the stone age?
As for built-in support for hardware, you must be joking!
Linux supports a very wide range of hardware from wrist-watch to
supercomputers, while w2k has a very limited HCL, and even that relies
strongly on the hardware manufacturers to provide the drivers.
> Linux is a *fine* server OS. But *nothing* more.
>
Windows is a fine stand-alone desktop machine (aka game console),
but *nothing* more - i.e. do not attempt to connect it to the internet,
because you'll be swamped by virii, and do not attempt to do any *work*
on it because you'll be frustrated by the crashes and loss of your work.
Have a nice day,
Zsolt
------------------------------
From: Peter =?ISO-8859-1?Q?K=F6hlmann?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:08:57 +0200
Jon Johansan wrote:
>>
>> > I so LOVE it when someone claims to have killfiled (or better yet,
>> > actually done it) - it is the ultimate proof that that person is not
>> > willing to consider anything but what they believe is true - very blind
>> > indeed...
>>
>> No, it simply means that someone will not read any longer the
>> talkings out of the ass of someone, like Aaron Kookis, which I
>> have killfiled (that jerk is really dumb, racist and a wintroll to boot)
>> Your postings are not at all more intelligent, it just happens
>> that you do not use a sig as annoying as A. Kookis.
>> Otherwise you would have been a long time in /dev/null
>>
>
> Why, that is quite insulting. I take offense that you lump me with Aaron.
> Given he is a linvocate as are you - can I do the same with you? I don't
> think you'd like that.
>
Thats your problem.
Feel insulted as much as you want, you deserve every single bit of it.
You are a wintroll in its sense, meaning dumb, obnoxious and without
any facts whatsoever. Aaron is a wintroll too, nobody intelligent enough
to use Unix or Linux would post such BS. He is using Win98, by the way,
he just pretends to use linux (he thinks he�s looking more intelligent that
way)
Peter
--
Microsoft is not the the answer.
Microsoft is the question.
The answer is NO
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Will MS get away with this one?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Form@C)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:11:26 GMT
Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:
<snip>
> Are you high?
> I have never seen an Apple floppy with 16 holes. And Wozniak didnt
> design his drive controlle card until Apple had already incorporated.
> Markula was already there too. His design was described as another
> engineering work of art.
>
<snip>
I'm afraid that *I* may have been! I always understood that early apple
drives used hard sectoring in conjunction with their own electronics. I
have just been doing a search to confirm that, but have drawn a blank! It
looks like I was wrong folks. I must have been getting confused with
something else (getting confused is getting easier nowadays!)
--
Mick
Olde Nascom Computers - http://www.mixtel.co.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 20:15:02 GMT
Jon Johansan wrote:
<snip>
>
> but, ok, so that installs gnucash and it's very specific versions of
> libraries. But, um, what happened to your other applications that need
> other very specific versions of those same libraries?
The other versions are still there. It's called "versioning." It
has worked just fine for a long time how.
>
> The funny part is that when DLL hell wasn't a phrase yet and Win95 was new
> and these things were first mentioned, we (Windows advocates) too laughed
> and said, "Setup.exe - where's the problem?" and didn't get it. Well, we
> lived through it and it sucked. Pretend it isn't an issue... be our
> guests...
>
You seem to have this funny idea that linux is 'inheriting' dll hell
from windows, or following in its footsteps, as if windows had been
down this road, and linux is about to follow. You've got it completely
backwards. If it's true that newer versions of windows have this
straightened out, then good for them... and may I add, *finally*!
Unix systems tend not to be slopped together like that. The culture is
not friendly towards re-installing the entire OS after installing and
uninstalling a few applications.
Let me pick on the Windows registry as an example. It's massive,
modified independently by every application on the system, and
essentially opaque to the user. It's bound to bloat, degrade and fall
apart.
And those .inf files that get mucked up so you can never get a Windows
system back like it was before you installed a piece of hardware.
You wind up with travesties like DirectX, which, according to Microsoft,
CANNOT be uninstalled or reverted to a previous version.
www.microsoft.com/directx/homeuser/faq.asp#dx9
Why? Because it's a "system component" - Oh, that explains it!
The whole Windows system is hostile towards comprehension, modification,
pruning, and repair.
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows makes good coasters
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:15:29 +1200
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 22:53:56 +1200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >"Terry Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >> > Joe User had enough trouble using DOS, bash is more complicated
> >> >
> >> >
> >> Howso?
> >> Dos lacks up-arrow command history
> >
> >Doskey can be loaded.
>
> How
Type doskey at a command prompt.
>
> >> and command search,
> >
> >What do you mean?
>
> Searching for commands.
Type Help
>
> >> this makes DOS
> >> *harder* to use.
> >> Dos is a single user system, this makes Dos *harder* to use.
> >
> >When I'm in a directory in DOS and want to run an executable in that
> >directory, I type the name of that executable. When I use bash, I have
to
> >do ./executable
>
> Unless you have '.' in your path, which is by default not there as it
> makes it easier to run rogue programs. At least try and know something
> about what you're talking about before you come ranting and raving in
> here.
I'm not ranting and raving at all, I'm just saying that using bash is not
convienient for JOe User, who had enough trouble with DOS.
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What does XP stands for ???
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:18:30 +1200
"Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> > You really are dense aren't you Matt? One guy complains because MS
> > completes it's sockets implementation to make it standards compliant,
and
> > now it's a security hole? It's a security hole in most *nixes then as
> > well.
> >
> >
> >
>
> How many complete, and utter luser/morons do you see using UNIX?
I can think of a few. Just the other day I had to explain to a Unix admin
what an MX record was.
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Opera
Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2001 08:19:12 +1200
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 08:08:26 +1200, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >"Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> So Todd, what you are saying is if I wrote a piano concerto in E minor,
> >> and I sold manuscripts of it so that people could play it at home, some
> >> how, I am giving away my "intellectual property"? no, I am not.
> >
> >No, you're selling it. See the word "sold" in your sentence?
>
> Your point?
He asked if he was giving away his IP when he's in fact selling it. Hence
the word "sold"
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:08:13 +0200
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > "Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >
> > > > "Dealing with the rest has proved tricky, even for people who are
> > accustomed
> > > > to this sort of problem. "
> > >
> > > apt-get install gnucash
> > >
> > > Where's the problem?
> >
> > GnuCash is on debian unstable. The dependedcies might cause you to
> > download a lot of unstable share libraries. I understand that in
> > some case, it might overwrite the stable versions that you already
> > got.
>
> It's also in woody and stable; no need to switch to unstable (which
> really *is* a bad idea most of the time).
>
GnuCash 1.6 made it to stable already?
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux inheriting "DLL Hell"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:09:38 +0200
"Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3b2a6576$0$1816$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Hello World in W2K wouldn't take more than 60 libs.
It would take just one, actually.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:14:17 +0200
"Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3b2a6513$0$1823$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> From your previous posts I was under the impression that you tended to
only
> join conversations in which you were able to provide factual dataum
> supporting your points of view. I think you don't give your accuracy
credit
> as much as the advocacy it produces.
I do try to avoid posting on topics which I have litte interest at, yes.
It just happen to be that I've knowledge on the things I'm intersted at. :-)
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:16:29 +0200
"Macman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <9gdm1o$35d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Google change the look of pages, as does anonymizer.com, should they be
sued
> > as well?
> >
> >
>
> Neither Google nor anonymizer changes the _content_ of pages. If they
> start changing the content, then they should be stopped.
Google colors the pages, anonymizer changes the links so you go through
their site.
> Note that you're the one bringing up suing them.
Copyright infrigement usually leads to lawsuits.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 23:21:51 +0200
"Macman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Really? Microsoft isn't a third party?
No, it doesn't get involved in this at all.
> So when I view a web page using MSIE with Smart Tags, there are only two
> parties?
Yes, the user, and the page author.
No where along the line it's going through MS' servers and being changed.
IE6 gives the user the ability to display some words in a special manner. MS
supply stock implementation of this.
The user can change that implementation to whatever he wants.
<o:SmartTagType
name="Microsft"
namespaceuri="urn:schemas:place"
downloadurl="http://www.apple.com";>
</o:SmartTagType>
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: The other astroturfers.
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:14:30 +0600
I've mentioned before that astroturfing isn't limited to Microsoft, nor
even original with them (they can't seem to innovate at *anything*, can
they!), so I thought I'd mention this story I just spotted about recent
astroturfing-like behavior by the movie industry:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010615/ts/leisure_movies_ads_dc_1.html
Friday June 15 9:43 AM ET
Variety: Studio Workers Posed
As 'Patriot' Fans
LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A week after Columbia
Pictures disciplined ad executives for inventing a
friendly but fictional critic, the studio has
acknowledged that its workers posed as fans for
commercials, Daily Variety reported on Friday.
blah, blah, ...
Ah, well. Astroturf is always greener than real grass.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:19:01 +0600
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "B. P. Uecker"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No, he's from Austin, he's been eating the roadkill again.
I wrote an on-the-road song once, with a refrain that went:
...and spray the armadillo off my raised white letters.
Referring, of course, to a trip to the car wash when you get home. Not
all roadkill is served up in edible portions.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LIVE TEEN CAM in my ROOM!
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 14:21:48 +0600
In article <9gd2p4$ntg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Candy"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://jarnc.tripod.com BONDAGE CAMS, EVERYTHING for FREE!!!
Do you run the cams off Linux? Can we find a HOWTO at your site?
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
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