Linux-Hardware Digest #108, Volume #10 Tue, 27 Apr 99 18:13:32 EDT
Contents:
Re: All the current OSes are idiotic (was Re: Is Windows for idiots?) (westprog)
How to get Panasonic CD-ROM 2 work? ("Alan W. Jurgensen")
Hardware recommendation for Samba server... (Daniel Tremitiere)
Re: smp support in linux experimental? (Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues - LEI)
Re: Linux on Compaq Armada 6500 ("Tiamat")
Re: All the current OSes are idiotic (was Re: Is Windows for idiots?) (Ed Allen)
Screen (Chantis)
Epson Stylus 750 ("John Burton")
Audiotrix pro jumper settings. (LordHector)
Re: All the current OSes are idiotic (was Re: Is Windows for idiots?) (Leslie
Mikesell)
Re: Winmodems and Linux ("Daniel R. Tarsky")
Re: Linux Kernel and PnP (Eric)
Re: ATI Mach 64 ( Newbie ) problem ...... (Henrik Carlqvist)
Re: Display problem (Henrik Carlqvist)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: westprog <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: All the current OSes are idiotic (was Re: Is Windows for idiots?)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 12:21:06 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
GAZZA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> westprog wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > GAZZA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> (snip!)
>
> > > You may be correct. Would you accept, instead, that most NEW
> > > development is done in the "C-family"? One COULD argue (I'm not
> > > going to, though - see below) that this is a sign that case
> > > sensitivity is an "improvement" on the "old" languages that didn't
> > > have it.
> > This is broadly true, but look at the huge amount of code still being
> > written in the various dialects of Basic - especially VBA. Melissa
> > was written in a case insensitive language, for example.
> Certainly, but few would argue that VB was a good reason for
> anything, case insensitivity included. ;-)
I agree that VB (and VBA) is a mess as a language, but I don't think that it
is any worse than C++. It has the same problem as C++, for the same reasons -
backward compatibility. There are some nice features in VB - it is hugely
easier to code for COM - but the lack of structure makes it unsuitable for
programs beyond a certain size.
VB would look a lot better as a front end to COM and databases if Delphi
didn't exist. Object Pascal is suited to large programs, and it is just as
good at talking to databases and COM, and can talk CORBA as well.
C++ is, in fact, quite bad at talking to objects. C++ objects correspond to
other types of objects only with a lot of work.
> (snip!)
(I think we have squeezed as much as we can out of the case sensitivity
issue.)
> (snip!)
...
> > I like the idea of code being supplied in a semi-compiled virtual
> > format, which could easily be rendered in many different ways.
> > Languages like Delphi and Java, with simple syntax and very fast
> > compilation, lend themselves to this approach.
> Smalltalk sort of does this already (in that code is compiled
> at the method level rather than the class/object level). It's
> probably no coincidence that Smalltalk IDEs are, in general,
> superior to Java IDEs (can't comment on Delphi, but I'd imagine
> it had a lot in common with the old Turbo C++ type IDEs that
> Borland used to make. I do like those, but they aren't in the
> league of a good Smalltalk environment).
Smalltalk is one of those ideas that should have been superceeded by all the
latest advances. The fact that this has not happened leads me to think that
some of these advances have been in the wrong direction.
I have only the sketchiest knowlege of Smalltalk, but what I have seen is
impressive.
...
> > Once they had abandoned C compatibility, they might have gone
> > further in ignoring C familiarity.
> What I find ironic is that the supposed reason for the C familiarity
> was to win over C++ programmers. But C++ programmers appear to be the
> most fervent anti-Java zealots around. ;-)
As a C++ programmer myself, I think that it is a feeling that "If we had to go
through all that pain, so should everyone else. It was character forming."
> (snip!)
> > > > What I would _really_ like is a more sophisticated approach to
> > > > data retrieval, where the nested directory/file/data is no longer
> > > > relevant.
> > > An interesting idea. What sort of features would such an approach
> > > have?
> > That is a big, big question. I will just throw out a few random
> > ideas, and leave the development of the system as an exercise for
> > the reader.
> > I would strictly segregate executeable code from data. If data were
> > to be made executeable - a script file, for example - this would be
> > a specific operation.
> > (Like chmod, but more fundamental).
> > The file structure would have object database capability.
> > Data files would be characterised by the operations that could be
> > performed on them. A JPEG file could be passed to a graphics editor
> > - a text file to a text editor. An HTML file could be processed by a
> > normal text editor, or be passed a a stream of content text to a
> > spell checker. These operations would be defined as supported
> > interfaces.
> These sound like GREAT ideas. Essentially you have data files that
> identify the types of interfaces they support, and executable files
> that identify the types of interfaces they implement. (For example,
> an HTML editor would specify that it implemented the HTML interface,
> and an HTML file would specify that it supported that interface).
> You could have a Smalltalk-like GUI so that when you right-click on
> a file, it would tell you all the available operations and what
> programs can implement each of them, perhaps with a series of
> defaults.
This is done in a half-hearted way in Windows with file type associations.
Like so much in Software, a hack which turns out to be useful gives us an
idea of how we should do things. The trouble is that we often never get past
the hack.
> > A file would not be resident in a tree structure - rather, it would
> > be a member of various data sets. The JPEG of your auntie would be
> > in the data set of graphical data, of my new digital camera, and
> > family history.
> ... thereby classifying the files by what interfaces they support.
> Yes. Sounds great.
Of course, you could still associate files according to content as well as
content type.
> > Compound data structures would be supported (similar to web pages).
> > Your aunties picture could be part of a family tree structure.
> > All data would have versioning information built in. Most operations
> > would be required to have an undo facility.
> Which would be done by having ALL files required to support the
> "General" interface, which would include operations such as Undo,
> Rename, and so forth.
> > The location of data on local discs would be handled entirely by
> > the system. The user would have no need to relocate applications
> > or data at any time. The system would use spare space automatically
> > to its maximum extent for caching and making redundant copies of
> > vital data.
> > File management would be unnecessary.
> > Backup media would be supplied with a unique identifying
> > name/number, which was also accessible to the system. If the user
> > wanted to retrieve his aunties picture before he drew a moustache
> > on it, the system would say "Insert zip disc 1777822517A" and load
> > it for him.
> > These are just a few random ideas, which may or may not be possible.
> I don't see any reason, offhand, it couldn't be done. And it sounds
> like a great OS - as long as it can be made fast, which might be a
> (solvable) issue.
If it were designed like this from the ground up, it should be just as fast as
one of the current file systems, from a pure benchmark point of view. From a
User point of view - somebody trying to retrieve data - it should be much
faster.
> (snip!)
>
> > In my wonderful new system, you wouldn't execute files (execute -
> > what an appropriate name). You would enter supported commands,
> > which would call an interface to a system object.
> It needs to be possible to add these system objects, but otherwise
> I agree with you.
This is something that I stole from RSX11M; not a state-of-the-art system! In
RSX you would install a command using a three letter name - I don't remember
the exact syntax, but it would be something like
MCR>Install LIB /file=$Userfiles:library.exe
This allows you to keep your executables wherever you like, without having to
have a huge PATH. In an object-based system, all your objects would be made
known to the system in a similar way. (Something like this happens with COM
objects and the registry in Windows).
> > If you wanted to list all the text files, you would submit a query
> > asking for the files which supported the ascii text editing
> > interface.
> You wouldn't need to. If I'm understanding you correctly, all
> files are classified by what interfaces they support. In effect,
> all files are present in multiple directories; you simply look
> for the "ascii text" interface files.
And you would be also able to perform complex queries - look for ascii text
files that are part of the "Aunty" dataset. There would, at the search level,
be no difference between sets defined by the interfaces the files supported,
and sets defined by the user to classify the data.
A set based classification is much more flexible and intuitive than the
current tree based structure.
Glad to see your comments.
J.
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------------------------------
From: "Alan W. Jurgensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: How to get Panasonic CD-ROM 2 work?
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:11:47 +0000
I have an older OPTi 82C929 sound card with proprietary panasonic CR-562
CD-ROM...
I'm tring to install Red-Hat 5.2 ... no dice. Have tried
soundblaster/panasonic CD-ROM type... but wont detect it.
So, Ive verified it works in dos with Opti Sound/CD-ROM drivers...
Tried Toms 1 Disk Linux system... and tried loading isp16 cd-rom driver which
states opti support... It seems to load and detect
cdrom interface ok... BUT how to access drive? what is the device file? HELP
!
Does slackware have support for this drive/card combo?
any help appreciated, al-man
--
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
Alan W. Jurgensen - Full Compass Systems
phone: (608) 831-7330 - email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+
------------------------------
From: Daniel Tremitiere <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Hardware recommendation for Samba server...
Date: 27 Apr 1999 13:47:12 GMT
I'd like to apologize in advance for the basic nature of these questions...but
then, if I knew the answers, I wouldn't be asking.
I'm setting up a network for a small, and certainly not rich, elementary
school; although they need Windows to run educational software on the client
machines, I plan on using Linux and Samba for the server end of things. The
server will be used to provide home directories for students and faculty, and
to maintain Windows profiles. It will occasionally be used to standardize the
software distributions on the client machines, but speed isn't important in
this (it'll likely be done at night.) I don't anticipate running programs off
the network.
My question is this: what are the minimum hardware requirements for acceptable
performance in a system like this? The network will be 10base-T at first,
but will be upgraded to 100Mbps as soon as it's feasible. I have my ideas as
to what might be an appropriate configuration, but I'd really appreciate any
input on the subject.
Thanks,
Dan Tremitiere
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Carlos Eduardo Rodrigues - LEI)
Subject: Re: smp support in linux experimental?
Date: 27 Apr 1999 18:31:06 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: > Experimental SMP (multiple CPU) support is included in kernel 1.3.31
: > and newer. Check the Linux/SMP Project page for details and updates.
: >
: > � Linux/SMP Project
: > <http://www.linux.org.uk/SMP/title.html>
: excerpt from linux Hardware-HOWTO. So when is linux
: smp support not going to be considered experimental anymore?
: Seems like lots of people are using it with good success.
: Does anyone still consider it experimental and not ready for
: primtime?
: -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
: http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
linux SMP support is not experimental anymore (since 2.2.0 if i'm not
mistaken)
------------------------------
From: "Tiamat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux on Compaq Armada 6500
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:15:58 +0200
Juergen Fiedler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a �crit dans le message :
7g22bi$mfd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> The topic basically says it: I have a Compaq Armada 6500
> and would like to install Linux on it. I tried Red Hat 5.2
> over FTP, but there is no driver for my Ethernet card (a
> Xircom CreditCard), so I can't connect it to the Linux
> router this way. Of course, I could get a parallel cable
> and try to connect via PLIP. But first, I would like to
> know: Is it worth it? Has anyone ever tried to run Linux
> on an Armada? How'd it work out? Is there a way to use the
> Xircom card later on, after Linux is installed?
> I would appreciate it if you could help me with those
> questions.
>
I've installed SuSE 6.0 on an old Armada 4120. It took me about 45 minutes
and everything was up and running.
My ethernet card is a 3Com 3c589 PCMCIA, and all works just fine :)
Sorry about the Xircom, I dunno.
> TIA,
> Juergen
YW
Tiamat
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: All the current OSes are idiotic (was Re: Is Windows for idiots?)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ed Allen)
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 03:28:58 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Matthias Warkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It was the 24 Apr 1999 22:42:04 -0400...
>> unix disallows that one too. you cannot have / in a filename.
>
>I've heard that you can, at least in theory, provided a buggy enough
>program (whatever they meant with that beats me). But it would be
>pretty much impossible to access that file once created, since
>everybody would parse the slash as a path separator.
>
I saw this happen with SCO Xenix and Mac desktops.
The Macs ran software to talk NFS and would happily pass filenames
with '/' in them.
SCO NFS was braindead enough to accept them and create the file. On
a standard Unix partition. The only way I was able to avoid further
corruption was clear the inode and run fsck.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 13:17:59 -0600
From: Chantis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Screen
I just installed redhat LINUX 5.2 and I have a small problem with
Xwindows.
My monitor a Gateaway 700 EVis not listed in Xconfigurator so I chose a
similar one.
The problem now is that that Xwindow are less than the screen. There is
a remaining
black frame around desktop. Does anybody knows how to fix this?
------------------------------
From: "John Burton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Epson Stylus 750
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 16:24:22 +0100
Is there any support for colour printing on an epson style 750 printer?
I can't find anything to say that there is, and don't want to get one
if I can't use it with linux,
------------------------------
From: LordHector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Audiotrix pro jumper settings.
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 15:45:34 GMT
Hi all,
I just got this card off of a friend. I know it's supported but I was
wondering if anyone who is using this now could hip me to the jumper
settings.
Thier tech support told me to look at pages 14-15 in the manual I don't have
-- and it's not online.
-- Thanks
-- Jon M.
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: All the current OSes are idiotic (was Re: Is Windows for idiots?)
Date: 27 Apr 1999 15:18:46 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Chris Costello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Johan Kullstam wrote:
>> the problem is that we need out-of-band markers for the punctuation.
>> i am not sure if '\0' is allowed in filenames either.
>
> Of course not! '\0' would be the null-terminator on the
>string passed to open(2)!
>
>> i'd suggest claiming the control chars and reserving them for system
>> usage. stuff like ^D really has no place in a sane filename. i'd
>> even go so far as suggest that `:' and starting a filename with `-' be
>> banned as well. i am sure others will insist upon tradition and
>> disagree.
>
> I insist upon tradition and disagree.
I understand the traditional view that the OS and filesystems should
not dictate the usable character set to the user. However, many
of the worst real-world user problems on unix in the bad old days
of character terminals came from people hitting the keypad
arrows while typing a filename into a shell or application that
took everything literally. You would end up with cursor motion
escape sequences in the filenames that would not only make it
next-to-impossible to retrieve that file, but a directory
listing would be scrambled as well. Then there is always the
fun stuff that happens to shell scripts and backups when you
put shell metacharacters, spaces, and newlines in the names.
I always thought there should be an argument to open()/creat() that
would allow traditional 'anything-goes' names but the default should
prevent the use of problematic characters.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Daniel R. Tarsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Winmodems and Linux
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 09:43:33 -0700
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> On 27 Apr 1999 01:51:50 -0400,
> David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> >-> Bill Volk wrote:
> >->
>
> (snip)
> >
> >Has the issue of Winmodems been brought up in the DOJ case against
> >Microsoft? It seems that designing hardware that can only work with
> >Windows is a great way to maintain a monopoly.
>
> It's also a good way to make money, apparently. Skip the hardware
> that's no longer needed 'cuz the micro can do all the work,
> and one can save a bundle selling hundreds of thousands of units.
>
> (Mind you, how much does a UART/USART cost? 5 cents? 5 bucks? :-) )
>
> I wouldn't mind WinModems so much if they weren't so damned
> proprietary, but I hope this trend doesn't continue much longer.
>
> (WinPrinters???)
(wince)
>
>
> [.sigsnip]
>
> ----
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], wondering how much that poor microprocessor can take
------------------------------
From: Eric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Kernel and PnP
Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 21:45:10 +0000
Tiamat wrote:
> Christopher Weslay Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a �crit dans le message :
> 7g2grn$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > I am wondering when will the detection and configuration of PnP devices
> > will be apart of the Kernel. I think this is what is holding many people
> > from running linux. I know there is the isapnptools but I want something
> > simpler.
>
> Try the latest kernels : I use kernel 2.2.5, and I've plugged an Adaptec AVA
> 1505AE, it's been automagically detected at bootup.
>
> CYA
>
> Tiamat
Quoi !??! ben alors la c'est vraiment miraculeux !! quelle est donc l'option
magique du kernel 2.2.5 qui permet une telle prouesse !??
------------------------------
From: Henrik Carlqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ATI Mach 64 ( Newbie ) problem ......
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:00:12 +0200
Webulator wrote:
> If I try to set up the Mach 64, I get an amber glowing LED (usually
> means power management is on.
In this case I would guess that it means that your graphics card is
using a higher refrehs rate than your monitor can handle. Are you sure
that you entered the correct horizontal and vertical refresh rates for
your monitor when you ran xf86config? Those rates are usually printed in
a chapter named technical specifications in the monitor manual.
regards Henrik
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------------------------------
From: Henrik Carlqvist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Display problem
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 20:15:01 +0200
Bjarne Erup Larsen wrote:
> I hoped that asking for as little as a 640x480x8 resolution during
> the installation would give me the oppurtunity to enter Xwindows and
> from the download the server once more.
You don't need X to download files, you can use ftp or lynx instead.
> I would like LILO to start Windows 98 ("dos") as default.
> Can I edit a certain file from within Midnight Commander to solve
> this problem?
The file to edit is /etc/lilo.conf. For more info about this file, do
"man lilo.conf". After saving this file you must run /sbin/lilo.
Midnight Commander is also able to connect to ftp sites, if you are
familiar with this program you are probably able to use it for
downloading the X-server.
regards Henrik
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