On Tue, 9 Apr 2002, Nadav Har'El wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 09, 2002, Shlomi Fish wrote about "Meta-Post:
>Emacs/Vim/Perl/Python/other utils usage questions":
> > I want to learn how to use and get around XEmacs properly. I am perfectly
> > happy with gvim and XEmacs behaves very much like I don't want it to, but
> > finding how to use it is a pain because the documentation system is
> > horrid. (IMHO, flame away in private)
> >
> > So, my question is: are "how to do this in XEmacs/Vim/Perl/Python/etc"
> > off-topic in this list or will reduce the SNR? They are not
>
> Instead of answering your meta-question (like many people already seemed
> to do) I'll just answer your real question: how do I learn XEmacs?
>
> Contrary to your statement (assumption?), XEmacs has excellent documentation,
> both on how to use it as an editor and on how to configure it using "Emacs
> Lisp". You can either print out the documentation (10-1000 pages, depending
> on what you print!) or read it online - it all comes with your XEmacs
> distribution.
>
That's because you favour the top-down method of learning how to use a
piece of software. Read the tutorial, read the API reference, etc. etc.
Then, if you remember everything you read, you can master it well.
I, however, like to use the bottom-up method: learn how to do that, learn
how to do that. When in the mood, read more or just browse looking for
useful stuff and learn more. If you are looking for something specific -
search for it. Naturally, you don't master the whole thing at once, and
there may be features that would make your lives easier which you are not
aware of. But at least you can spend some time doing useful work with the
tool, rather than learning it.
Many perl hackers don't use Modules or Objects when they start to learn
Perl. Naturally, it is a powerful feature, but it is usually not needed.
It took me some time to decide that I need to learn it, and then I
realized that it was remarkably easy to master. (although possibly error
prone - but that's Perl).
If Emacs can only be learned top-down, then I don't know if it is worth my
time for the while to learn it. I'd rather buy the O'Reilly book (which
covers GNU emacs and not XEmacs), because it would probably be better
than the built-in documentation. Besides, some distinguished members use
gvim for everything and only use emacs for specialized tasks. Some people
use joe or something similar (I know I used it exclusively very happily
for a time).
Emacs is just an example. Some people may have gvim questions (how do I do
that? I could not find it in the docs). Or Perl questions, or Python ones,
or grep or awk or sed or other UNIX meta-stuff. Maybe we should designate
gnubies-il as the mailing list to answer such questions. But that may
reduce its SNR.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish
There is no IGLU Cabal! To master it one is required to master the
Meta-IGLU Cabal first. And the latter has no dedicated mailing list.
> I suggest you start with XEmacs' online tutorial (see the Help menu, or
> type Control-h t). After reading the tutorial you'll be able to edit
> with XEmacs.
>
> When you understood the tutorial, read the XEmacs main info file, e.g., with
> info --file=/usr/share/info/xemacs.info.gz
> (if you want to print it, take the .texi file out of the source distribution
> and run "texi2dvi" and "dvips" on it).
>
> When you want to master XEmacs' Lisp, read
> info --file=/usr/share/info/lispref.info.gz
> But be warned: this is a *huge* document, and you will probably not want to
> read it all.
>
> --
> Nadav Har'El | Tuesday, Apr 9 2002, 27 Nisan 5762
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] |-----------------------------------------
> Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Tact is the art of making a point without
> http://nadav.harel.org.il |making an enemy.
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Shlomi Fish [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Home Page: http://t2.technion.ac.il/~shlomif/
Home E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Let's suppose you have a table with 2^n cups..."
"Wait a second - is n a natural number?"
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