Hi On Sun, 12 Jan 2003, Shoshannah Forbes wrote:
> > On Sunday, Jan 12, 2003, at 01:19 Asia/Jerusalem, Tzafrir Cohen wrote: > > > > >> I know tools like apt > >> that help, but they are no good for computers with no internet > >> connection, and are horrible over dial up. > > > > apt-get --recon --download-only install package > > > > Will print what you need to download the files required to install > > "package". This gives you a nice list of URLs to go and fetch. > > Ah, but the other computer is not running linux (it is not my machine). On the computer that needs to download > > >> I hope they improve. (ROX > >> desktop < http://rox.sourceforge.net/ > addresses this issue with > >> "application packages" similar to what can be found in mac OSX) > > > > Nice, but totally misses the point. Dependencies are here to solve a > > problem ("I've just installed the program foo and it dosn't work" "can > > you > > run it from the terminal?" "terminal? yuck. well, OK. double-click on > > terminal icon, p-r-o-g-r-a-m-enter. I see something about failing to > > load > > a library"). > > How do they solve that problem? Application bundles have are the needed > resources with them- in what looks like the user like a single file. > You won't have that problem in the first place. I know- I have used > this system myself (on osx). And it makes install and uninstall a snap- > to install: just copy the file to wherever you want it to be. > Want to run the application? Double click that single file . > Want to uninstall? delete it, and if you want you can also delete it's > preferences file from ~/Library/Prefrences > > This way, things are easy to understand: you always manipulate one > object, what is going on stays clear, even for the humblest user. This > is one of the things that makes Mac OS so friendly. Why not copy? Easy to understand, but messy. The whole point of the linux FSH (File System Hirarchy) standard is that the packaging system is good enough to keep track of files. Therefore there is no problem with "cluttering" /usr/bin and /usr/lib : you can easily tell to which package a file from there belongs. This is very useful what you think of backups: On a proper system you need not backup /usr . You only need to backup /var and /etc . With packages you'll also need to backup $packs_root/pack1/var, $packs_root/pack2/data and $packs_root/pack3/user\ config > > > But RPM does not attempt to resolve dependencies. This is a GoodThing: > > rpm > > should not be aware of the extra complexity in the existance of a > > repository (more than one? an up2date server?) of packages and how > > exactly > > to decide which of them to install. > > In theory- you are correct. in practice, this doesn't work, especially > for the novice user- RPMs just fail due to dependency problems way to > often. > > Think again about my Grandmother- she does download applications from > the internet. Do you really thing she would be able to download and > install a program on linux? Without someone holding her hand? Again: this problem is caused because people use rpm directly. > > > > >> Where did that RPM install the application? > > > > rpmq ? > > kpackage? > > rpmdrake? > > > > Any information that is available in a command line program can be made > > avilable to some GUI. In this case such GUIs exist. > > And how is my Grandmother (who uses a computer) supposed to know this? > And why do I need yet _another_ tool to find this out, and not from the > WM/OS itself? The above was information about RPM packages. Your grandmother naturally need not bother about rpms, so the question should be "how do I run this program" why ir 'rpm -ql package | grep bin/' important here? answered in the next item. > > > > > Debian has had a good menuing system for quite a while. This system was > > later adopted by Mandrake. If a package wants to add itself to the > > menus, > > it only needs to create one file and run the menu-updating procedures. > > This will add it to any programs menu in the system. > > But how I, as a user, can tell from the menu where the application > really is on my hard disk? a. Why is that important? b. look at the KDE shortcut? /usr/lib/menu/whatever ? KDE has a menu editor, IIRC -- Tzafrir Cohen mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.technion.ac.il/~tzafrir ================================================================= To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
