Shahar and all other on linux-il whom concern..... after reading your long and very detailed mail about why did HAMAKOR lost this round I would like to publish some of my own insight ( if it is of any concern to someone here.. )
1. Linux and open source got much bigger communittee in Israel then it had in the past ( I'm talking 2-3 years ago...) 2. it seems that there are two LOS ( Linux-OpenSource just for short.. ) communittees working with out any coordination. the first the eldest and more experienced LOS users that mainly gether in iglu and linux-il mailing list and the other newly arrived and much less experienced by average that getherd at whatsup/penguin sites. 3. the elders are much more exclusive group that doesn't mingle with the newbies that starting their way up the LOS world. 4. ever since the Makor started it's act it neglected to use the largest stage that avail. to it for accessing the crowds. whatsup is defiantly today the largest place on then net which deals with LOS matters and try to bring as much info and knowledge to the public. regarding the last events that took place.... a. HaMakor didn't not referred to SCO and Arie Scop by publishing any respose to whatsup.. ( I guess protest was sent to other sites as you mentioned "People&Computers", "Ynet" and others.. ) but none formal respond to whatsup ( where many of the sec. group I mentioned above visiting on a regular daily basis ) b. out of that same resone that HaMakor don't use whatsup to inform the public about it self and it's activities not many knows what is HaMakor is and what is it stands for.. ( even the poll that I've put in whatsup regrading the Amuta member Fee wasn't sent to whatsup stuff but I was stumbled upon in linux-il list ) I think that if HaMakor seeks the recognition as a representative of a communittee he should access it in the best and widest channel he can get to it.. I also think that the eldest ( I've mentioned at the beginning ) will take the lead and get out of the bubble the linux-il and Iglu and get more involved in the forming community that takes place in the last months. LOS is not what it used to be in the past and it gets to wider public day by day... I'm sorry for the harsh things but I really felt like Shacher was hiding in his respons the Makor incompetence to do things out of the wrong resons... -- Yehuda Drori http://whatsup.org.il your Linux spot on the web in HEBREW ביום ראשון, 1 ביוני 2003, 01:38, Shachar Shemesh כתב: > early P.S. > This email turned out WAY too long. I guess I have problems writing > concise about things that are important to me. Sorry, and I hope you > manage to survive it all. > > Abstract: > The issues Itay raised are exactly what "Hamakor" was founded to > address. However, the number of tasks Hamakor is facing is such, that we > need much more help from you, the community, in order to succeed. > > Full email: > Funny you should say that. I think the short answer is that we are > several steps ahead of you `-) > > In order to have representatives, a community needs to be a formal body. > In order for Globes to know they needs to ask for someone's response, > they need to know that there is this contact person, who is authorized > to speak for the "open source community". The way we thought best to > achive that is to form an NPO. > > Guess what, we did! It's called "Hamakor". You can get some more info > about it at our web site - http://hamakor.org.il. I am a board member, > and the unofficial official contact. As such, I did draft a response > letter for Globes, but we did not (as far as I know) manage to get it > published. I guess you can say this is one round where we lost. > > Why we failed with Globes is a question worth asking. Maybe if we > organized a campaine where subscribers of this list sent letters to the > feedback email, saying "we know Hamakor sent you a reply. We see that > reply as representing our view as member of the Open Source community, > and would like to ask you to publish it", things would have been > different. I am sure there will be plenty of chances for us to test this > theory out. > > On the bright side, we have some winnings as well. Coverage on > "Information Week", and their online version, "Daily Maily", has been > more ballanced. Exactly a week ago, the editors contacted us for > reaction about the SCO business. They simultaniously contacted Scop. I > don't know whether Arie sent them a response or not, but I can tell you > that our response was published, and I saw no mention of anything else > from MS (http://dailymaily.co.il/26-5-2003/news.htm, and in particular, > http://dailymaily.co.il/26-5-2003/news.htm#sco-1). I guess you can say > that the picture is not as bleak as you portray it. > > Still, there is plenty more we need to do. The five board members cannot > do everything, nor should they. You sound as if you have the right > spirit. There are plenty of projects that need to be done, and we are on > a constant lookout for more people to take responsibility. We also want > people to join. Joining is important, not because of the money. The sad > truth is that we cannot collect enough money to perform any real > activity. Not from member's fees. Joining is important because it gives > us power when facing the press, the government, and people. If I say "I > am a board member of an NPO you have never heard of", this is something > else than "I am a board member of an NPO which you have never heard of, > but which has over 100 registered members". > > All in all, Hamakor was off to a pretty good start. Companies like IBM, > CA and Sun know of our existance. So does Microsoft. There is more than > one government office that knows we exist (four that we have spoken > directly with, in fact, some more, some less. We need help with some of > them). We have good connections with "People&Computers" (publishers of > Information Week), and at least got SOME response from other journalists > as well. Gal Mor, from ynet, checks our site before writing his > articles, despite the fact that non of us have his email address (Gal, > if you can read this, please be in touch). > > While these are wonderful signs of success, this is not success yet. We > can call this project a success when everyone in the community know > about Hamakor, because without a significant amount of people willing to > say that they now have a representative, this is just empty talk. We can > call this a success when every published in Israel knows that when > someone badmouths open source, there is someone to turn to for a > response. In short, there is yet a long long way to go. > > If you believe in the goal, we need your help. The people currently > active are overworked and busy. The amount of things to do outweights > the number of people doing it by a lot. Not all of the projects are as > cool and as satisfying as writing a free software project, but they also > don't demand as high a skillset to enter. Even if you think that the > member's fees are too high, or just don't feel like paying them, if you > want to help, we will gladly accept it. This includes the "privelege" of > calling yourself "Hamakor"'s representative. > > Some of the infrastructures necessary to run this project are still > being brought up. The mailing lists should be alive within a few hours. > The web site is, more or less, up to date already. We need your help to > give Free Software a voice people will hear. > > Shachar > P.S. > For those who wonder why all the accomplishments I mentioned were vis a > commercial and governmental bodies, here is the reason. Free software > projects don't need anybody's help to live. Meni Livne did not translate > most of KDE to Hebrew because there is an NPO for Linux. The Kinneret > knoppix like project was not initiated by Hamakor (shame on us for it, > no doubt). If those projects require help from us, we will be more than > happy to give it. This includes financial help, if necessary. For the > most part, however, these projects do not need our infrastructure > (actually, they sometimes do need it, but we are not yet equipped to > give that help. Anyone who wants to help with that? please?) > > As such, I'm very ashamed to say, most of our accomplishments were in > the "blowing hot air" devision. This may seem bad to techies like > ourselves, but this is exactly what Itay was talking about. In order to > get formal recognition, you have to blow hot air. If all you do is do > real stuff, sad as it is, noone will know. As things currently stand, we > need lots of help, both with the real stuff, and with the hot air stuff. > We cannot leave the front stage empty. If you want all the open source > representation to be done by Sun and IBM, what you will get is > commercial represnetation. We need your help. > > Sh. > > Itay 'z9u2K' Duvdevani wrote: > >The story happened a day before I flew for a couple of days... I was quite > >disappointed to discover nothing has happened while I was gone. The story > >already lost it's momentum and it is too late to do something now, Scop is > >the winner in this round... > > > >I don't know if that discussion already took place in this mailing list, > > I've only subscribed today, but who should represent the open-source > > community in cases like this? > > > >As a community, we need coordination. Leaving Scop's saying as-is, without > > a replay from the community, is a backward-step for Linuxand the > > open-source in Israel. > > > >Soon, Mr. Scop will realize that he, or others, can say anything they like > >about the community without and problems or clarifications from it's side, > >thus allowing him to spill out his garbage without worrying - as we've > >already seen... This is a bad situation. > > > >My question is as follows, is there something/someone that represents the > >open-source community in Israel? > > > >I am not talking about a law-suit in this specific case, that is beyond > > the reach of the community, I'm talking about showing the Israeli public > > that we're alive-n-kickin', let's say by making some public noise through > > the media... Demanding Globs to allow us and publish a reaction to Scop's > > rubbish about the open-source and piracy... > > > >What happend here, in this specific case, suits a a group of a random > >gathering of people that has a little thing in common, not of a strong > >community that has something to offer... -- ================================================================To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
