Yehuda seem to have raised some issues regarding cooperation and consolidation of the FOSS scene in Israel if in did there's one. There are many talented people willing and ready to help, though it seems that only recently it is becomming serious enough to make a difference.
Like in many other cases FOSS's recent achivment and sucess around the world was not intiated here (linux-il or whatsup). We are meerly benefiting GNU/Linux coming of age and maturity. Though mutt, pine or emacs are still the foundatons of FOSS they are by far not the platform on which it is now making it's inroads into the the public domain.
And so you have relactently dismissed Yehuda's interest in serving the community even further offering Whatsup as a platform to use by anyone in Israel intrested in promoting FOSS including established yet some what remote linux-il, or self-appointed Ha-Makor.
I personally don't really think it is difficult to see that whatsup seems to be doing very well serving the community as over 800+ users and more the 1M hits seem to sugest. If you think this is not a good enough proposition, or Whatsup/Yehuda should be runing around collecting news from the mouths of the so called community leaders, I think you are denying what seems to be obvious so far. If you need to outreach and spread any messages you might have, you should concider Whatsup to be you 1st choice. Doing so will further establish its presence and allow consolidation of the community.
Whatsup was wize and responisble enough to co-operate, rather than compete with many other projects like the Pinguin, Ha'Makor, Kineret and LinBrew and some other sites dedictated to FOSS and by doing so gave an example of positive and healty attiude and established itself as hub for this activities in a way. I hope it'll continue so wether receiving aknowledgment for it or not. Frankly speaking I think it allready had gained it. Why don't you make the most out of it?
dittigas
On 2003.06.02 02:05, Yehuda Drori wrote:
this is Shachar response and my answer is between the paragaphs...
Shachar hi..
???????? ??????????, 1 ?????????? 2003, 12:49, Shachar Shemesh ??????: > Yehuda Drori wrote: > >Shahar and all other on linux-il whom concern..... > > > >after reading your long and very detailed mail about why did HAMAKOR lost > > this round I would like to publish some of my own insight ( if it is of > > any concern to someone here.. ) > > > >1. Linux and open source got much bigger communittee in Israel then it had > > in the past ( I'm talking 2-3 years ago...) > > > >2. it seems that there are two LOS ( Linux-OpenSource just for short.. ) > >communittees working with out any coordination. the first the eldest and > > more experienced LOS users that mainly gether in iglu and linux-il > > mailing list and the other newly arrived and much less experienced by > > average that getherd at whatsup/penguin sites. > > > >3. the elders are much more exclusive group that doesn't mingle with the > >newbies that starting their way up the LOS world. > > > >4. ever since the Makor started it's act it neglected to use the largest > > stage that avail. to it for accessing the crowds. whatsup is defiantly > > today the largest place on then net which deals with LOS matters and try > > to bring as much info and knowledge to the public. > > Hi Yehuda, > > The points you raise are valid points, and worth noting. While I agree > with the criticism, I think it is not correctly pointed. > > Hamakor was formed to unite the LOS community in Israel. Personally, I > was well aware that Linux-IL is a rather closed community, and for me, > one of Hamakor's distinct objectives is to provide a place where > everyone feel welcome and represented. > > However, another one of the objectives was to provide a common interest > representation, and NOT to replace the existing communities. Whether I > like Linux-IL the way it is or not is irrelevant. The point is that we > did not form the NPO in order to change Linux-IL. If you, as a primary > driving force in Whatsup, feel under represented in Hamakor, your beaf > is with me. Leave Linux-IL out of this. If you, as a welcome poster on > Linux-IL feel that the community needs to change direction, talk to the > list. This has nothing to do with Hamakor.
sorry to give the impression that Linux-il and Iglu are obbselit... I don't think that those fine places should stop to exist on the opposite
I also don't think that they should become something they are not ( who am I to say anything about that at all ) ... ;-)
> For the reason I stated above, Hebrew postings are welcome (and, in > fact, encouraged) on [EMAIL PROTECTED], while they are frowned upon here. > You yourself were invited to sit in on the original assembly meeting, > and were even given a chance to join the board, which you turned down. > The penguin, on the other hand, has a very respectable and WELCOME > attendance, both on the board, and on the activities.
as I told in that last meeting of the elections the reason for my refusal to offer my self to be board member was driven out of my lake of ability to contrib. any more of my time due to my prv. obligations and geographical location. I also think that the stuff was elected was fine and able.. with no sec. thoughts..
> The reason I'm saying this is not to say that you are wrong about > Linux-IL, or even about Hamakor. I'm just saying that there is a reason > why things turned out the way they did. Some of the problems you mention > have to do with lack of awarness. These are problems that time and > feedback (such as the mail you just sent) will slowly iron out. I think > you can see that if I was trying to publish a questioneer on whatsup, > but sent the request here, it was solely out of my own ignorance of > "[EMAIL PROTECTED]". Like I said before, such misunderstandings will > be slowly cleared as time goes on. It is welcome of you to send your > opinion about them when you come across them (as you did with your mail).
I raise that point only to make you and the rest aware of big part of the community that is out there and offer you a stage to reach them just as a reminder (sorry for the criticism.. some time I can't help my self.. )
it's seems like if an elected party ( without specifying for what.. ) publish news and activities that reflect on a bigger community in a local news paper and then wonders why no one knows about her and here doing..
> Other problems you mention, however, are more due to the fact that > Hamakor cannot do everything. This is doubly true for the board. I was > never a frequent visitor of whatsup. I don't think I NEED to become one > now, merely because I'm a board member. Doron, on the other hand, is > both a visitor of whatsup, and has, in fact, contacted you about > cooperations with Hamakor. I don't see any problem with the fact that > not all board members are intimately aquanted with all media available > to the NPO. I think it only natural that Doron will be better aware of > what whatsup can do for us than me. This is also something that will > become better over time, but I doubt very much it will actually go away.
I think that Doron has done great work responding to stuff on whatsup and I've told him so in the past and I hope he will keep that going... I hope that you'll concider to publish stuff in more formal way meaning that it will represent the official Makor point of view.. not only as a private point of view.. this will surely make the Makor more known in the public..
> You are, still, welcome to offer your help. The current board structure > will not hold indefenitely. It's a uphill struggle. We simultaniously > need to be PR people (which most of us feel ill-equipped, nor motivated, > to be), and struggle with uniting (or at least representing) two > communities with very different interests. The fatigue will not let all > of us stay on board for too long. You are more than welcome to jump in. > You are more than welcome to try and help before that (for example - > email me and offer to publish the response on whatsup....).
at this point I say again...
I welcome you to use whatsup to bring the MAKOR to the public.. that means that you and the rest of linux-il,iglu and HaMakor can post/commet/argue to what ever you think important.. this is what whatsup is all about.. I think that its a fine stage just all and I guess I feel that it wasn't used well so far by you....
> The sad truth of it today is that we don't have good procedures for > making good use of the help people are offering. This means that, when > people offer their help, we usually direct them at the various projects > we are trying to do, because coordinating people working on different > projects is easier than coordinating people working on the same project. > The thought was that there are enough projects to go around. This is > failing because not everyone are fit for doing all projects. We need a > better solution for decentralizing the tasks that currently only the > board are capable of doing. I think I have some ideas (but they take > time to implement). If anyone has experience with those things, please > let me know. The way things currently stand, the board is not handling > the load, while rejecting offers of help. We need someone who can help > us help you help us :-) > > Don't get me wrong. Things are getting better, and will continue to get > better. I'm just saying that I'm aware that some things are not as well > as they ought to be.
this was my first intention.. bring up some more resources to make your ( and our as well ) mission easier and more significate....;-)
> Shachar
-- -- Yehuda Drori http://whatsup.org.il your Linux spot on the web in HEBREW
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