> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mix Sella [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[snip]

> I beg to differ. Spammers know EXACTLY what they are doing. 
> Spammers are 
> perfectly aware that what they're doing is not legit. 
> Spammers do have 
> conferences and training, spammers employ more or less sophisticated 
> techniques and psychologic tricks, spammers constantly 
> research anti-spam 
> technology and counter emerging spam filtering measures. 

Yes. Because they think what they are doing is legit, and the rest of the world (i.e. 
you and me) is wrong.

> When people started filtering by From: header, spammers 
> started writing bogus 
> addresses.
> When people started complaining, spammers started forging headers.
> When people figured it out, spammers started using proxies.
> When proxies got nailed, spammers started using free email, 
> insecure relays 
> and throwaway accounts.
> When free email implemented human checks, insecure relays got 
> blacklisted, 
> ISPs started suing and antispammer movement deployed the 
> forces, spammers 
> moved offshore, started to fake identities, and pay crooked 
> ISP personnel.

This does not say they know thay are illegit. They are still fighting their against 
the anti-spam movement and not against the 'legitimacy' of their actions. They claim 
that if it's legal and it makes them money, than it's okay.

> When everyone figured out who exactly the spammers are, when 
> honeypots popped 
> up everywhere and started blackisting them even before they 
> could actually do 
> any damage spammers started hijacking netblocks, joe-jobbing, and 
> SLAPP-suing. Even worse, they started listwashing and 
> pretending being legit.
> You might not be aware that there's a war going on, but I 
> have news for you.

Oh, I know, I fight it every day. I'm on the good side :-)

> Spammers are worse than robbers. Robbers are scum; but 
> spammers are *parasite 
> scum*. Even worse, spammers are STUPID parasite scum. I might 

While I agree they are the scum of the earth, there's a difference between that and 
being illegit or illegal.

Take for example the gray-market debt collectors. They will come to you and hint at 
what will happen if you don't pay. They will apply pressure on you They will hint that 
your family will not like it. They will send you (anonymously) pictures of your 
children at school. They will tread on the fine line between harassment and a 
legitimate requirement for extrication of the debt.

They are scum. They are low-lifes. They are legit, in their opinion. They are legal 
(well, at least they weren't caught).

> consider giving 
> a fair trial to someone who robbed a pawnshop. But to a 
> spammer? No. Spammers 
> should be put to death.
> And you know what? Do a little googling. Sometimes, they *do* 
> shoot spammers.

I think no one should get the death penalty. It is just too light - a few days of 
fear, you shit in your pants, you die (I don't believe in an afterlife). I suggest 
everlasting torture - like reading spam at them day and night, in jail (...and you 
only have to send 5 bucks! It's the most amazing offer...).

-- Arik
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