At Mon, 24 Jan 2005 12:59:15 +0200, Danny Lieberman wrote: > > muli > > Lisp is the language of Autocad - Scheme is the language of the TAU CS > dept. Acad has a bigger install base. ;-) > > ok - university is about learning to learn but "interesting and > relevant" is usually a personal thing for a student. > > Unfortunately - employers want people who know how to work in familiar > environments - > My interviewing experience is that most TAU new CS grads cant program to > save their life which is why I always look for someone who worked in a > real programming shop for a year or 2 > > There is something very wrong with the system when a CS grad needs 1-2 > years of industry experience to be able to program whereas > a first year student at the Rubin Academy of music can sit in any ANY > ensemble, sight read and make music. >
Read my other rant, but to summarize, there is something very wrong with the concept of CS. What you should want is a software engineer grad (if the level there was higher) and not a CS grad. A lot of students enter CS to get the degree so that they can get into the interview and possibly learn a bit of java for the CV. They are not interested in the material so they take the easiest route and end up not knowing how to turn on a computer. > Professional muscians practice 3-6 hours/day - how many hours a day does > a professional programmer practice? > > When I hire a programmer - I expect him or her to be able to be > productive immediately just the way a contrabass player can read music > and play in a group; I am not sure about the music degree in uni so as not to step on their toes I'll use a different analogie. A good artist goes to art school and a good actor goes to acting school, not to university. You go to university to be a good art critic not an artist. To be a good programer you should go to software engineering or to programing schools (depending on what abilities you want). CS is supposed to be for developing the theory and algorithms, not the code itself (neural networks, wavelet compression techniques, not to implement a network driver for your pocket calculator). > just like its ok for a clarinet player to spend some time learning bass > clarinet I have no problem with hiring a programmer for a Cobol slot if > she can learn Cobol over the weekend > > danny > > > Muli Ben-Yehuda wrote: > > >On Mon, Jan 24, 2005 at 10:57:32AM +0200, Danny Lieberman wrote: > > > > > > > >>2. imho - Access Basic can be part of a 1 trimester course on > >>programming languages which should cover a number of modern languages - > >>like php, java, javascript, Lisp (not scheme) > >> > >> > > > >Ok, I'll bite - why lisp and not scheme? > > > > > > > >>I believe that being exposed to a spectrum of modern widely used > >>programming languages is an important part of a CS education although > >>not an end in itself. > >> > >> > > > >widely used != interesting or relevant. Would you say that VB is a > >useful thing for a student to go to a university to learn? > > > >I wholeheartedly agree that exposure to a wide variety of programming > >languages is crucial, anything from shell to assembly to C to C++ to > >Java to lisp to prolog. I disagree that learning a particulary tool - > >especially if it's a proprietary tool! - is something that should be > >done in university or high school. How is learning to use access > >contributing to the student's education? what can you learn from > >access that couldn't be learned from far better sources, except how to > >use access? > > > >Cheers, > >Muli > > > > > > -- > Danny Lieberman > Visit us at http://www.software.co.il > Office + 972 8 970-1485 > Cell + 972 54 447-1114 > > > > ================================================================= > To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with > the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command > echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > This Mail Was Scanned By Mail-seCure System > at the Tel-Aviv University CC. > ================================================================= To unsubscribe, send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word "unsubscribe" in the message body, e.g., run the command echo unsubscribe | mail [EMAIL PROTECTED]
