Linux-Misc Digest #679, Volume #18 Mon, 18 Jan 99 14:13:13 EST
Contents:
Re: LINUS Can Suck My Hairy Cock .. or Newbie Needs Linux Help ... (King Nothing)
Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class. (Marco Anglesio)
Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Statement of Bill Neukom As Government Rests Its Case (Michael Powe)
Re: Anti-other-guys-os FUD (was: Anti-Linux FUD) (Jim G)
Re: SCSI Timouts & Linux 2.0.36 (zentara)
Re: How to print a man page? (Floyd Davidson)
Re: chrony-1.0-2.src.rpm (David Bubar)
Re: StarDiv's StarOffice Freezes on Setup (Jon Sundquist)
Re: RedHat 5.1 default security. (Raymond Doetjes)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: King Nothing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: LINUS Can Suck My Hairy Cock .. or Newbie Needs Linux Help ...
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:13:08 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hey I kinda like OpenVMS. sort of........I just hate TPU. It isn't that hard to
write scripts as long you learn the lexicals (ugh)
Mark
Jeff Kay wrote:
> So "Omni�"
>
> is all your bitching an complaining about that you want to learn linux? or you
> just want to cripe? I'm not expert and yet I got it working quite well.... (
> yes I had used unix before and when I first used unix it seemed very strange
> but after looking at a unix book I began to understand and after a couple weeks
> of using unix I realised how powerful it was.... That was AIX.... I've used
> Solaris, IRIX, openVMS ( uggh ) since, all before linux ).
>
> > >How did you learn how to copy a file in dos .... I'm mean you did have to
> >
> > I didnt say copy a file , dickwad
> > (read it next time)
> > I said create a file , from nothing
>
> The post I saw said copy...if it was not a full account of what you said...well
> then I was mistaken...too bad..... act like an asshole and people will treat
> you like one....
>
> My point was in absence of your lack of couth.... that you had to learn .....
> this was not DNA encoded into your brain...
>
> create a file.... depends on what you want to do? word editing? use emacs ....
> file new ( ie type emacs... then click file...then new -- save when your
> done...bang no different than in windows just a different program )
>
> on the command line "" >> filename
>
> will create an empty file then emacs filename... or Lyx filename or joe
> filename or pico filename etc...
>
> > >So you get windows for free..... the difference is I can never be charged
> > >for using linux without paying.... maybe someone will cc your message off
> > >to MS and they come hunting you down...sure they have better things to do
> > >but they sure would like making a point too and hey they got the spare cash
> > >to do it...
> >
> > yeah right buddy
> >
>
> OMNI really I dont care what you think...... So your a thief be proud.......
> Wow what an accomplishment...
>
> > >While in your eyes learning linux may be like learning chinese a) over a
> > >billion people have done it ( not linux, chinese ) and b) at least at the
> > >end you would have had the satitsfaction of having accomplished something
> > >you consider difficult....
> >
> > its not really a challenge
> > learning C or 80x86 assembler was a challenge
> > I meant that it just didnt flow right , from the start
> > hell I couldnt even have installed the thing
> > if the CD I had didnt have an autoboot funtion on it
>
> Interesting that you know 80x86 assembler or c and you cant figure out
> unix(linux).... Considering that unix was developed by the same guys who
> developed C I'd say the logic is the same....
>
> Geez... my autoboot didn't work and I still installed it.... If fact I copied
> the dosutils dir to my c:\ drive and ran autoboot from there.... ( and I have a
> CD bootable comp. )
>
> If its not an accomplishment for you then I dont know why you're having so much
> trouble.... Chinese for sure as hell would be and it makes perfect sense once
> you realise that it is not the same as english or any germanic language and
> adapt to an new way of doing things..... "yu gotta remeber dude" you brought up
> the chinese thing.......
>
> > yu gotta remember dude
> > I'm talking like 10 minutes after instalation
> > well 10 minutes after a MSDOS installation
> > I was cruising
> > I didnt have a headache like I do with linsux
>
> Ten minutes after never having used dos before and never having read anything
> about dos and you were wizzing along huh...whatever......and now you cant do it
> with linux.......
>
> Dos is no more intuitive than the linux command line ...come on... Dir doesn't
> make sense as a command like I said... ( maybe copy does )...... how bout
> chkdsk? this isn't intuitive either since most people who tried to use DOS
> couldn't deal with the 8 character limit and would have preferred commands like
> "check disk", "list files" etc.... DOS didn't have that ( unix could have but
> people who used unix didn't want to type that much so they shortend the
> commands down....
>
> in DOS can you kill a program thats running in the background ( ok there is no
> background cause DOS cant mutlitask but) Nope..... Can you do it easily in
> windows (hmm maybe ) in linux
>
> kill -9 "process id #"
>
> That quite literally has to be one of the biggest draws for me to unix ( ok
> there are tons of others but I have the power to kill a program "with extreme
> prejudice" if I like even if the entire command is not intuitive, once you
> learn it...bang yer set ).
>
> So do you have X setup? use it...... You can make X look however you
> want....these people who say X looks ugly..... have you tried a different
> window manager..... how about configuring it...It can look exactly like
> win9X... exactly!...or like a MAC or NEXT or Sun or whatever psychotic "looks"
> you can dream up.... look at Enlightenment ( www.enlightenment.org )... X
> doesn't look like anything.... looks the way you want it too.....
>
> > That you make comments such as "MS will
> > >own linux" or "that bill owns us" or "that your vcr has a better gui and
> >
> > and I agree at least my vcr looks better than x , and might I add easier to
> > program
> >
> > and I suppose he just typed mahjong (enter)?
> >
> > get real buddy !
>
> No Omni.... I have Gnome installed....he clicked on the panelbar..... scrolled
> up to games... clicked mahjonng and played even though the mouse is set up to
> work different than in windows...its not click to focus like windows etc.....
> yet he was able to adapt to the new environment quickly..
>
> People say linux is to hard to use... NO its not...once its setup properly any
> win9X user could maneuver about X and gnome or KDE or whatever ... provided
> they have a brain in their head ( many dont )... I was pointing out that my
> dad is proof.... Could he set up linux...no, not a chance...but once set up
> could he use it..... yes..... so can my monkey...
>
> > I cant even get to the CD drive
> > I type \dev\hdb andf I get permission denied
> > and I'
> > m supposed to be root
> > WTF???
>
> Well thats because...linux doesn't use \ it uses / and you dont go /dev/cdrom
> to get the cdrom. You're too used to DOS and expect linux to work the same...
> it doesn't..... Try VMS... its a sick conbobulation of Unix and DOS yet once
> you are used to it...seems perfectly reasonable
>
> you type
>
> cd /mnt/cdrom
>
> if it isn't mounted... then you type
>
> cd /mnt
> mount -t iso9960 cdrom and then
> cd /cdrom
> ls there's your cdrom?
>
> Yes you have to be root.... to allow everyone to mount the cdrom, type as root
>
> chmod 666 /dev/cdrom
>
> now anyone can do it
>
> there are automated tools in X to allow you to easily mount partitions (
> mounting may seem strange coming from a windows environment but there is power
> in it and method to the madness if you took the time to learn )
>
> > and I'm just wondering if its going to be worth learning this illogical OS
> > as I dont believe it has a better future than any MS product
> > we are talking user friendly here
> > after all it is PnP these days
> > and no-one can screw up a win or NT instalation
> > but look atr all the
> > "hel" posts on the unix NG's
> > I rest my case
>
> OMNI does your CDROM work in true dos mode...if not could you get it too? Plug
> and play's great if it works.... which it doesn't all the time.. And actually
> Omni its USB these day... hot installs etc..
>
> Omni.... there are far more posts to windows NG's concerning far less technical
> stuff and yet people have trouble all the time...... Computers aren't tv's you
> dont just turn them on like an appliance and have everything make sense.....
> and I've seen this a million times ( I've helped more people than I care to
> remember setup windows....show them how to use it etc.... ). Once upon a
> time...I had no clue about computers at all...didn't understand DOS.... within
> 2 weeks I was hacking the school network..... But what did I do differently
> than you.... I asked someone to take five minutes and explain to me a few basic
> things ( commands ) and how to find out things on my own.... ie help dir etc...
>
> Then I watched other people and very quickly became extremely competant....
> Does this make me special.... NO..... but it is the difference between being
> willing to learn and bitching that it should be obvious.....
>
> As far as no one screwing up a win or NT install...talk to MS help...ask them
> how many people have..... the numbers are amazing... people do it all the time.
> People who really dont understand what they're doing do it all the time ... is
> it easier than linux.... ya I think so in some cases...not all... but windows
> is by no means perfect and most people never have to install it....
>
> If your having trouble and you actually want to learn...ask question NICELY and
> people will help.... hell you could have even emailed me.. if you dont want to
> learn WHY did you bother? just cause its free? cause you thought you'd be
> cool? why?
>
> When you want help come ask...
>
> until then... do this ( if ofcourse you're still interested )..... fire up
> netscape
>
> point it a /usr/doc and read or type xman and read some of the commands......
>
> cheers
>
> jeff
------------------------------
From: Marco Anglesio <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:19:15 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 09:19:15 PDT
In alt.os.linux Darin Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> However, the basic point - something like Linux is extremely hard to
> get on such a machine. But Linux evolved from Minix, and Minix would
> fit on smaller machines, but it was a tight squeeze. Minix was
Inspired by, perhaps, and the Linux kernel was first developed on a Minix
box and used the Minix filesystem, but there's no shared code base and
Linux is not a development branch of Andy Tanenbaum's Minix as you imply.
In fact, the design paradigms are entirely different. The ext filesystem
evolved during the 0.XX kernels, I believe; ext2 appeared for the the 1.0
kernels. Again, those are just my recollections, which are welcome to be
corrected. They are easily verifiable by browsing through the kernel
archive, though.
Xenix, which you also mention, is AT&T Unix (System III?) ported to the
intel x86 architecture. It was available for the AT along with DOS and
CP/M, not released several years afterwards. It was also considerably more
expensive than either, I believe.
Followups to advocacy.
marco
--
Marco Anglesio Like Captain Idiot
mpa at the-wire dot com in Astounding Science comics
http://www.the-wire.com/~mpa (The Manchurian Candidate)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux is not even in Windows 9X's class.
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:32:02 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:51:17 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Lou) wrote:
>It's about games.
>
>Let's face it games run the industry. You can do your word processing
>on a 286 (or on a 68030 like me) but if yo want to play games you need
>a really fast computer.
Well, actually Linux made me upgrade to 64 Mb of RAM to make StarOffice run
faster. Just a word processor ? MS word 6.0 was happy with my 32 MB (It ran on
16, as I remember). That's on a Pentium 120 machine.
=====================================================
Answers please in this newsgroup!
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
=====================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Statement of Bill Neukom As Government Rests Its Case
From: Michael Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 18 Jan 1999 07:49:15 -0800
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Corfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Richard> One of the problems that we're having with this one is
Richard> that insists on forgetting the user name and password to
Richard> dial into the remove server with. Both this and on
Richard> testing my Windows installation suffer this. We had at
This is a known issue with DUN and upgrading your DUN version should
fix it.
http://www.annoyances.org is the "Windows Annoyances" site and has
many tips and tricks for getting around absurdities like this.
Definitely should be in the bookmark list of any Windows user.
Richard> Windows is not easy to use, or intuitive. I've seen
Richard> beginners have all sorts of problems trying to understand
Richard> it, and accepting crashes as normal and blaming
Richard> themselves not the system when it doesn't do what they
Richard> want it to. I'm not alone in having wasted lots of time
Richard> fighting it trying to get it to do what I want.
You're right about this. People who have been using it for a long
time are too apt to forget that it was not at all easy to learn.
mp
8<---------------how-easy-is-it-to-demunge-an-address?------------------->8
#! /usr/bin/perl # if you are [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Another Luser):
while ($line = <>){ if ($line =~ m/^\s*$/ ){ last; }
if ($line =~ m/^From: (\S+) \(([^()]*)\)/){ $from_address = $1; } }
if ($from_address =~ m/\S+NOSPAM\S+/){ $x = index($from_address, NOSPAM);
substr($from_address, $x, 6+1) = ""; printf("The real address is %s\n",
$from_address);}else { printf("No munge, just plain %s\n",$from_address);}
printf("\nBrought to you by the Truth In Mail Headers Foundation\n");
8<-----------------------here's-one-example------------------------------>8
- --
Michael Powe
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.trollope.org
Portland, Oregon USA
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Comment: Encrypted with Mailcrypt 3.5.1 and GNU Privacy Guard
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iv4bCHclgaJO0UcgIrEunFc=
=md0H
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------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.linux.x,gnu.misc.discuss
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim G)
Subject: Re: Anti-other-guys-os FUD (was: Anti-Linux FUD)
Date: Wed, 13 Jan 1999 06:07:25 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Thomas R.
Stevenson) wrote:
>
>I wish this could turn into a real conversation on the weak/strong
>points of both OSs. That could lead to important changes that could
>benefit everyone. As it is now, these threads will do nothing more
>than provide comic relief.
Unfortunately this would require the Linux folks to admit that the folks
at MS actually are as intelligent as they are. This would also mean
the Linux folks would have to know and understand the valuable things
that windows 9x and windows NT have brought to the world of
computing. I design IA32 (intel architecture) systems and have used
virtually every OS that runs on this architecture. They all have strengths
and weaknesses. THERE IS NO IA32 OS THAT IS PERFECT. Most
are a long ways from really doing what real people need. Compared to
the other "tools" that humans use, computer are extremely primitive.
While there are a few folks in this newsgroup that seem to understand
both the technical and social aspects of computers, and are willing to
have intelligent, mind expanding conversations, most are just
blowing wind.
Jim G.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (zentara)
Subject: Re: SCSI Timouts & Linux 2.0.36
Reply-To: ""
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 18:00:21 GMT
On Mon, 18 Jan 1999 12:55:55 +1300, Graeme Woollett
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Recently I upgraded to RH5.2. Before this upgrade the SCSI devices
>worked, after however, I keep on getting SCSI timeout errors and SCSI
>host resets. When I boot a 2.0.32 kernel from floopy disk everything
>works fine. I get the same result whether I use modules or by
>specifically compiling support into the kernel.
>Does 2.0.36 have problems with SCSI?
I've heard that a few of the cards need a kernel patch update.
Generally though, there is no problem.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Floyd Davidson)
Subject: Re: How to print a man page?
Date: 18 Jan 1999 14:15:14 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jasper Moeller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 12 Jan 1999, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>-> Hey dudes! I'm trying to print man page on ipfwadm , but i can't find
>>-> how to do that :-)
>>
>>If your printer is set up correctly,
>>
>> man ipfwadm | lpr
>>
>>should do the trick.... It does for me.
>>
>
>Better use
>man -t ipfwadm | lpr
>
>which formats the man page with groff/troff
Man formats with groff anyway. What the -t option does is cause the
output to be in Postscript rather than in ASCII. Which definitely
makes for a *much* nicer printed page, assuming that lpr and the
default printer can indeed handle Postscript files of course.
Floyd
--
Floyd L. Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Pictures of the North Slope at <http://www.ptialaska.net/~floyd>
------------------------------
From: David Bubar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: chrony-1.0-2.src.rpm
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 11:47:38 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I downloaded this, thinking how clever I was to have found it in RPM format.
> This should be a piece of cake, I thought. Now I'm sitting in the corner
> wearing a dunce cap. :-)
>
> I ran RPM -ivh chrony-1.0-2.src.rpm and it gave the hash marks and no error
> messages. Kewel. But then I couldn't find whatever it was I had just
> installed. So I tried RPM -V chrony-1.0-2.src.rpm and it tells me the
> package is not installed. Wha?? So I try the install command again.. and it
> does the same thing it did initially... it installs without errors. In fact,
> I up-arrowed a few times and installed it repeatedly while watching in
> disbelief. Now, of course, RPM still says it isn't installed.
>
> Is it me, or is RPM going nuts?
>
> Can anyone shed any light?
>
> TIA,
> Bob
>
> Bob Trevithick
> Company:Qmail
> User:rft
>
> -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
try an rpm -ql chrony-1.0-2
I do not knbow if you realized it but you downloaded Source code not a
binary. This will need to be compiled before it will run. It should be
as simple as ./configure; make; make install
--
==========================================================
David Bubar http://www.albany.net/~bubar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
LTI http://www.ltionline.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 13:06:35 -0500
From: Jon Sundquist <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: StarDiv's StarOffice Freezes on Setup
Stefan Meier wrote:
>
> Hi Jordan,
>
> I suppose you are using the X-Server for the S3Virge chip? This server
> is buggy ... but there is a patch on the StarDivision Website (support
> area) ... with this patch, everything works fine!
>
> Stefan
Yeah, except that the install program uses the same library that crashes
the prorgam, and this library is inside the archive file that you use to
run the install. So it si nore tatn just applying a patch. I got
around this by downloading the replacement library from Stardiv, opening
the install archive file in kzip (I'm sure this cn be done from command
lnie as well, I don't know if it was a zip or a tar.gz, I'm not on that
machine right now), pulled the library file out of the zip that
conflicted with S3V, put in the new non-conflicting library (make sure
it is lower case, even if it shows up i upper case in the archive
listing in kzip), and then try it. Also, read stardiv's information on
this carefully. You have to set an environment variable in your
.profile for teh fix to work. This means that you'll have to exit X and
reenter in order tohave the variable properly exported to all processes.
Sorry I don't have more detail now. I did this on my dektop at home.
My lowly 486 laptop I' using now doesn't have the horsepower to run
staroffice.
Jon Sundquist
> Am 18.01.99, 02:21:29, schrieb [EMAIL PROTECTED] zum Thema StarDiv's
> StarOffice Freezes on Setup:
>
> > I'm trying to install Star Office under RedHat 5.1 without any
> success.
> > I've downloaded and uncompressed the program, but when I go to run
> setup it
> > freezes on the very first screen before anything has appeared. It
> freezes so
> > much that I actually have to hard-reboot the machine.
>
> > I've tried the install under the admin account as well as my normal
> user
> > account with and both had the same effect.
>
> > Suggestions?
> > Jordan
>
> > -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network
> ==----------
> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your
> Own
------------------------------
From: Raymond Doetjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RedHat 5.1 default security.
Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 16:09:23 +0100
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Depends on where the are in the system. In their home drive yes. But in root
and /sur/bin not usally.
But when you type ls -all you see the file rights and then you know if a
person and a group may delete of edit files.
But I know from all Linux distributions that users cannot dammage the system
accedently even taking actions on purpose is not very easy.
Raymond
mcv wrote:
> Hi,
> If I add a user to a RedHat 5.1 box, and they telnet to the system, will
> they be able to cause any damage to the system, e.g. - delete files, run
> config programs?
> Cheers,
> Mark.
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