Linux-Misc Digest #390, Volume #19 Tue, 9 Mar 99 21:13:10 EST
Contents:
Ghostscript vs Canon BJ10e (Matthew Palmer)
Re: windows 95B doesn't see FAT32 partition ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: KDE? Gnome? ... confused (Ewan Dunbar)
Re: Beowulf Anyone? (Philip Brown)
Re: modutils for 2.2.2 (Robert Schiele)
Re: kerneld not needed in 2.2? (Ewan Dunbar)
Where are all the dosemu experts??????? (Dennis Putnam)
Please Help - Linux Market Research ("John P. DeFonso")
Re: 2.2 Sound code (Ewan Dunbar)
Re: Can Linux use 36-bit Xeon addressing? (Johan Kullstam)
Re: PPP/diald with Linux 2.2 (Ed Young)
Re: No-Win Modem Situation ("D. C. & M. V. Sessions")
Re: CHEAP HW For Linux NoteBook Project (John Sarapata)
Re: PPP help (Bill Unruh)
Re: Linux 2.2.2 and UFS write support - does it work? (Rob Fisher)
Re: mgetty fax receive problem (Bill Unruh)
HELP: K6-2 motherboard w/ Linux; Perf. compares/ PII ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: best offline newsreader? (Michael Powe)
Re: Please Help - Linux Market Research (houghi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthew Palmer)
Subject: Ghostscript vs Canon BJ10e
Date: 10 Mar 1999 00:02:41 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Here's the story - I've got a BJ10ex printer (yes, getting on a bit now, but
it still works well) which I'd like to make print postscript. I've used
ghostscript before with a couple of Epson printers (using device epson9, and
a couple of others) and it works nicely. I thought that getting the BJ10 to
go would be even easier, since there is a specific device for it in
ghostscript.
Not so. I'm using a command line I got from the Printing-HOWTO, which
worked for the Epsons, but I can't get it to go with the BJ10. When I try
printing something, the printer beeps, locks up, I have to power-cycle it,
then when it comes up it prints part of the document, beeps, and so on.
Basically what I'm asking is - anyone who has a BJ10 printer working with
ghostscript, could they please post or mail me their command line to make
the damn thing work!
I think my version of ghostscrpt is 2.5.2 or 2.6.2 or something like that
(it's a bit old now) and the only thing I can think of is that the bj10e
driver isn't quite up to scratch. Alternately, there may be differences
between the BJ10e and the BJ10ex in the printer command sets. Does anyone
have any comments?
Any help GREATLY appreciated.
--
=======================================================================
Matthew Palmer | GE/CS d- s+:+ a--- C++(+++)>$ UL+++ P+ L++ !E
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | W-- N++ o? K- w--(---) O- M-(--) V? PS+ PE Y+
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | PGP+ t X+ R+ tv+ b+++ D++ Ge>++++ h* r++ !y+
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: windows 95B doesn't see FAT32 partition
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 10 Mar 1999 00:26:21 GMT
Alex Nichol <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Fred Heitkamp wrote:
>What seems likely is that it is a logical partition, and that the
>process has marked the extended partition containing it in such a way
>that that is directly visible by windows as well: extended partitions
>are at the primary level and normally only the one active primary
>partition is visible by DOS or windows at that level. Partition Magic
>can mark multiple primaries so that windows can see them - it is
>generally regarded as not a good thing to do. If you can find a copy
>of PM it may be able to correct the matter for you - or a low level
>disk editor in the hands of someone with exact knowledge of the
>settings. PM 4.0 BTW will handle Linux partitions as well as FAT
>HPFS and NTFS ones, so is a very useful tool indeed if you have
>multiple OSes around.
I've thought several times about getting PM. It sounds great.
Anyway, I fixed the problem. For some reason I thought the
mkdosfs would fix the boot record (whatever it's called) stuff
but it didn't. I discovered that something was amiss with a
PD partitioning program I found. (Nice little program and
the author gives it away.) The PD program shows the information
in the boot record area and I noticed the data was not right.
I used Linux fdisk to remove the partition and then made a
new one with type set to FAT32. A pleasant result was that
I didn't even have to restore from my backup again. The data
was still there. Neither the Windows or OS/2 fdisk could
see or fix the problem. I could not even reformat the drive
from Windows 95. I suppose it would have been nice to see
if PM would have fixed the problem.
Fred
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,linux.redhat.rpm,linux.redhat.misc
From: Ewan Dunbar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE? Gnome? ... confused
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:28:48 -0500
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 16:44:35 -0500, Ewan Dunbar
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >In theory, X is a great environment. In practice, it is bloated and
> >inefficient.
>
> so you are saying that 20 meg HD space for a compleate graphical
> environment is bloted? do you prefer the 60 meg of win 95 or the 85
> for win 98?
>
> these numbers are acurate. They do not count accessories or apps that
> are included.
> if you want to count that win 98 is 263 meg X is around 70 meg
It's not bloated in that sense, but it has been constantly called
"over-programmed" (which it is), not to mention the fact that it's totally
resource-inefficent (more like braindead).
===========================================================================
Eastman: He came out of the east to do battle with The Amazing RANDO!
===========================================================================
Ewan Dunbar
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://earl.thedunbars.com/pmah/index.html
===========================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Philip Brown)
Subject: Re: Beowulf Anyone?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 09 Mar 1999 20:39:42 GMT
On Sat, 6 Mar 1999 23:45:57 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Oscar;
>
>Just a quick question.
>
>Why are you moving away from the Alpha to the P3?
because compaq [previously known as DEC] made them do so?
just a guess.
--
[trim the no-bots from my address to reply to me by email!]
--------------------------------------------------
Secret nONsONaTIAL monologue...
H52QdPK4iQPijBgQeMKIUQOCjRg0IN6IYWMGhJszBevIARHGjBuLZTaKCZNx4x0xb0CsWYlQ
jpwxINDAPKMRBB0xYgiqEVMGj0qWbsIQnOMyD4g5ITcaBOGRDYg6C+OwWalAAQ
------------------------------
From: Robert Schiele <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: modutils for 2.2.2
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 21:36:06 +0100
Andre Hinrichs wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > In comp.os.linux.misc yhauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > I've installed kernel 2.2.2 successfully just for module support (marked
> > > ENABLE LOADABLE MODULE SUPPORT and KERNEL MODULE LOADER). My modutils
> > > are 2.1.85 - they run with my old kernel 2.0.33, but they fail with
> > > 2.2.2.
> > > Can anybody give me a hint?! yves
> > Yes.
> > You need modutils 2.1.121.
>
> Why is there still no modutils 2.2.x available?
Is there a need?
But you are free to rename your 2.1.121-package to 2.2.x. :-)
Robert
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: uk.comp.os.linux
From: Ewan Dunbar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: kerneld not needed in 2.2?
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:29:57 -0500
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Andy Piper wrote:
>
> I've recently moved to kernel 2.2.1 for a number of reasons, and
> I've been working my way through the Documentation. One thing
> that isn't clear is whether I should physically disable kerneld
> in my init scripts now that kmod is being used for loading kernel
> modules. I'm using an upgraded RH 5.1 system, so I can just
> remove kerneld from all runlevels, but is this going to cause any
> issues? I'm a bit confused on this point.
Kerneld has been outmoded, as they say. Don't run it.
===========================================================================
Eastman: He came out of the east to do battle with The Amazing RANDO!
===========================================================================
Ewan Dunbar
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://earl.thedunbars.com/pmah/index.html
===========================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dennis Putnam)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Where are all the dosemu experts???????
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:20:17 GMT
I posted this before but did not receive a reply. I am reposting in
the hopes that a dosemu guru can help me out:
When I do 'make' to compile dosemu-98.4 I get an error. I suspect I
may be missing a needed package but from the error I cannot tell what
it is. Can someone figure out from the error message below what I am
missing. TIA.
...
make[2]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/dosemu-0.98.4/src/base/bios'
rm -f /usr/src/dosemu-0.98.4/0.98.4.0/bin/libdosemu
rm -f /usr/src/dosemu-0.98.4/0.98.4.0/bin/dos
gcc -Wl,-warn-common -o /usr/src/dosemu-0.98.4/0.98.4.0/bin/dos \
emu.o base/data.o -Llib -L. \
-lenv_video -lbase_async -larch_linux_async -lbase_misc
- -lbase_dev_misc -lemu-i386 -lenv -lbase_speaker -lbase_dev_pic
- -ldosext_dpmi -ldosext_mfs -ldosext_misc -lbase_init -lbase_serial
- -lbase_keyboard -lbase_mouse -lbase_dev_dma -larch_linux_debugger
- -ldosext_net_net -larch_linux_dosext_sound -ldosext_sound
- -ldosext_drivers -lbase_bios -lenv_video -lbase_async
- -larch_linux_async -lbase_misc -lbase_dev_misc -lemu-i386 -lenv
- -lbase_speaker -lbase_dev_pic -ldosext_dpmi -ldosext_mfs
-ldosext_misc
- -lbase_init -lbase_serial -lbase_keyboard -lbase_mouse
-lbase_dev_dma
- -larch_linux_debugger -ldosext_net_net -larch_linux_dosext_sound
- -ldosext_sound -ldosext_drivers -lbase_bios \
-Wl,-b,a.out-i386-linux base/bios/bios.o env/video/vesabios.o \
-Wl,-b,elf32-i386 \
-larch_linux_slang-elf -lm -lc
lib/libenv_video.a(attremu.o): In function `Attr_init':
attremu.o(.text+0x7): undefined reference to `vga'
make[1]: *** [/usr/src/dosemu-0.98.4/0.98.4.0/bin/dos] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/src/dosemu-0.98.4/src'
make: *** [default] Error 2
------------------------------
From: "John P. DeFonso" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,linux.admin.isp,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Please Help - Linux Market Research
Date: 10 Mar 1999 01:00:01 GMT
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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Is anyone aware of sources of market research for linux servers?
Things like:
% of total servers that linux operates on
% of unix servers that are linux
growth rate % for linux servers
Thank you,
John DeFonso
=======_NextPart_000_0092_01BE6A62.08630940
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Is anyone aware of sources of market research for =
linux=20
servers?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Things like:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>% of total servers that linux operates =
on</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>% of unix servers that are linux</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>growth rate % for linux servers</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thank you,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>John DeFonso</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
=======_NextPart_000_0092_01BE6A62.08630940==
------------------------------
From: Ewan Dunbar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 2.2 Sound code
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 19:26:13 -0500
On Tue, 9 Mar 1999, Michael McConnell wrote:
> On 9 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Ewan Dunbar scribbled manically:
> > : I've recently tried 2.2.2 and found the sound code awful. I'm going back
> > : to 2.0.36 for the time being. It freezes the whole system when it
> > : tries to load after a warm boot. Has anyone else noticed this?
> >
> > A minor "me too"...I had sound working very nicely with 2.0.36,
> > yet when I compile 2.2.1 with what I would swear on a stack of Bibles _this_
> > high are precisely the same settings, and boot the resulting kernel, sound
> > doesn't work. Maybe it's having a cheap generic sound card...I can post
> > the relevant boot messages from a 2.2.1 boot if it would help anyone, but I
> > can't see why it should be this way.
>
> I had this too. Anyway, I gave up on it, compiled my kernel without sound and
> installed ALSA. Works a treat. :)
>
> ALSA is at http://alsa.jcu.cz
Apparently, there are known problems with the sound code which are fixed
in 2.2.3.
===========================================================================
Eastman: He came out of the east to do battle with The Amazing RANDO!
===========================================================================
Ewan Dunbar
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://earl.thedunbars.com/pmah/index.html
===========================================================================
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Can Linux use 36-bit Xeon addressing?
From: Johan Kullstam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 09 Mar 1999 19:46:39 -0500
Gianni Mariani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Johan Kullstam wrote:
>
> > John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > > Brian Moore writes:
> > > > (Again, much of this is due to their non-compete clause that they signed
> > > > when they sold Xenix off to SCO, so it's unlikely to change.)
> > >
> > > It'll change the moment they decide that buying out the agreement is a
> > > worthwhile investment.
> >
> > yes, but as far as i can tell, microsoft are idealogically committed
> > to destroying unix. i can see bill gates taking off his shoe and
> > pounding it on the rostrum....
> >
> Microsoft doesn't even know how to spell Unix :(*) Who are you kidding :)(
> Unix/Linux is alot of fun to use. But, until there is *lots* of cash
> in it, MS won't take it seriously.
MS do take unix seriously. MS are committed to `windows everywhere'.
that means, no other operating systems, e.g., unix. MS wouldn't even
have to say `windows everywhere' is there goal if there were *no*
competition.
> How do you go to your shareholders (of a $400billion company) and
> tell them, BTW - we're dropping everything and going to Linux ? The
> only ideology MS has is capitalism.
why would they do that? every linux install is a rejection of
windows.
> When MS sees that it is able to make around $1billion/year in
> software sales on Linux, you will see them porting stuff. Be
> careful though, do you really want the "registry", "proc calls",
> "GDI", "Direct-X" on Linux ? Gee, MS would love it,
this is going off on a strange tangent...
> you get to support irate Win98 come Linux customers over the
> comp.os.linux.misc newsgroup and they would have a field day
> shipping Office for Linux. Oh, and then they would be the evil MS
> because they support Linux and make a huge bunch of cash on Linux
> apps but don't support the OS.
> Tell you what: Make a proposal to MS (other than MS get lost) on how
> you would make *lots* of cash selling Linux based products for MS.
why? i really *do* want MS to *get* *lost*.
--
J o h a n K u l l s t a m
[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Don't Fear the Penguin!
------------------------------
From: Ed Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: PPP/diald with Linux 2.2
Date: 10 Mar 1999 00:53:13 GMT
Andy Piper wrote:
>
> I've been meaning to setup demand dialling on my Linux machine
> for a little while now. Since upgrading to the 2.2.1 kernel, I
> notice that when I bring up PPP I get the message
>
> 'kernel: PPP: version 2.3.3 (demand dialling)'
>
> in /var/log/messages.
>
> Does this mean that diald is no longer needed? I'm a newbie with
> this particular aspect of Linux so I'm a bit confused.
>
If you have a static IP address, and are connecting to a static IP address you
can use ppp demand dialing. Otherwise stick to diald. It works fine with 2.2.1
(on my system anyway :-) Diald is also much more tunable in my opinion.
Have fun...
------------------------------
From: "D. C. & M. V. Sessions" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: No-Win Modem Situation
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 17:52:14 -0700
Hugh Johnson wrote:
>
> I'm having a hard time trying to find a good internal modem (at a good
> price) that will work with RedHat. Today I bought a Viking v.90, which
> said nothing on the box about being a WinModem or requiring Windows or
> anything of the sort. The techie behind the service counter said it
> would work with Linux. So I brought it home, plugged it in, and it was
> 100% WinModem crap. Now I'm afraid to buy anything else unless I'm
> really sure it'll work. Does anybody have any specific suggestions
> (make & model)? What about the Zoom 2919? www.zoomtel is no-tell.
> Where can I find this info? Thanks.
Wisecom works for us. Accelerator Pro 56K internal;
there's a DIP switch that lets you disable the Prug
and Pray to set it like Real Hardware.
--
"Amid reports that the US House of Representatives' open mail
servers were used to relay spam, a House subcommittee met
Thursday and approved legislation that effectively approves
the practice." -- Deborah Scoblionkov
D. C. & M. V. Sessions
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: John Sarapata <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.portable,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: CHEAP HW For Linux NoteBook Project
Date: Mon, 08 Mar 1999 09:41:34 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I got a refurbished 75 MHz 8M 486 for $315 from eBay.com. I have since sunk
much more money into it, but the total cost of the system so far is:
Laptop: $315
Extra 8M RAM: $15
Floppy drive: $60
Microphone: $1
Ethernet/Modem PCMCIA card: $77
Total: $468 (about 280 GBP)
It is a Toshiba 2150CDT, and works quite well. The screen is nice (16 bit
color, active matrix). I can compile the kernel in about 25 minutes. So
far, all of the hardware is compatible. The only annoyance is that most X
programs assume 800x600, so you do a lot a desktop switching.
John
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh)
Subject: Re: PPP help
Date: 10 Mar 1999 01:04:41 GMT
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Neil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>I just installed Red Hat release 5.2 and have had some trouble with PPP.
axion/physics.ubc.ca/ppp-linux.html
or I can mail you a text version.
------------------------------
From: Rob Fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: uk.comp.os.linux,alt.solaris.x86,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Linux 2.2.2 and UFS write support - does it work?
Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 16:32:59 +0000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> If I recalled correctly, the documentation says only FreeBSD's ufs.....
Where did you read this? I have _no_ documentation. I've even been
trawling through the source!
Rob
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh)
Crossposted-To: de.alt.comm.mgetty
Subject: Re: mgetty fax receive problem
Date: 10 Mar 1999 01:10:55 GMT
In <7c48hq$kv4$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Peter Caffin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
] Hayes Accura 33.6 (Class 2.0 compliant)
...
] T3:23:respawn:/sbin/mgetty -x5 -C c2.0 -s 57600 ttyS0
^^^^^^^
]03/09 10:57:06 yS0 mdm_send: 'AT+FCLASS=2.0'
]03/09 10:57:06 yS0 mdm_command: string 'AT+FCLASS=2.0'
]03/09 10:57:06 yS0 mdm_command: string 'ERROR' -> ERROR
Your modem says it does not support class 2.0
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.hardware,redhat.hardware.arch.intel
Subject: HELP: K6-2 motherboard w/ Linux; Perf. compares/ PII
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:17:05 GMT
I'm looking to buy a K6-2 system (400MHz) to run
the following software:
Linux 5.2/6.0 SSE + Apache + PHP + mySQL.
The K6-2 system I'm looking at has:
- Motherboard: SIS598, (same AMPTRON 9900?)
- BIOS: AMI
- 1MB cache
- 64MB RAM
- 100MHz bus
- 6GB disk (UDMA, 5400 rpm)
- 8MB video AGP (on motherboard)
- 40x CD
- sound + speakers (16-bit sound on motherboard)
- NO monitor
- mouse, keyboard
- 1 year warranty
>
> Price is around: $750. (OK pricing?
Q's:
1. Should the above system be able to compile/run
RedHat 5.2 or 6.0 ?
2. I read some people have trouble w/ the motherboard.
Anyone heard of: SIS598, (same AMPTRON 9900?)
3. The motherboard has the hard drive controller and
video on the board (not separate card). Could this
be a problem?
4. Anyone have experience running Linux on SIS598
motherboard?
I've not been able to find a detailed, up-to-date listing
of which motherboards and video cards/chips are or aren't supported.
5. Someone wrote me saying that the MB (motherboard)
needs to have the EIDE chip set otherwise the DMA feature
on the drive won't be usable - resulting in slower disk I/O.
Correct?
6. Comparing a Celeron 400MHz vs. Pentium II 400MHz vs.
a K6-2 400MHz (running Linux, Apache, PHP + mySQL), does
anyone have an idea on the run-time performance differences
between the 3 CPU's running Linux - especially in a high
database / web page hit environment?
7. If Linux runs OK - should Apache, PHP and mySQL also?
Thanks for any help on this to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
From: Michael Powe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: best offline newsreader?
Date: 09 Mar 1999 17:40:51 -0800
=====BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE=====
Hash: SHA1
>>>>> "Richard" == Richard Latimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Richard> If you had a new baby, you could cobble up some dynamite
Richard> announcements in no time, with cutsey pink and blue
Richard> borders, pics of the kid, and some gurgling sounds to go
Richard> with it. That's a more practical html usage. The
Richard> functionality is there when you need it. And it's fun
Richard> (excepting the guys in the hair shirts).
And how does the word `need' fit into this scenario?
Richard> The posts in this thread are interesting. Notice how many
Richard> users are not running all linux systems, or have
Richard> additional machines running other operating
Richard> systems. Obviously, Linux cannot meet all of their
Richard> computing needs, yet. Excluding server installations,
Richard> there are probably few linux users who do not have a
Richard> second operating system loaded, or a second computer
Richard> running another operating system.
Richard> The question is why?
The answer is usually, because of the necessity of dealing with other
MS machines. I just booted Windows this week for the first time since
January. The reason was to investigate a problem someone else was
having with some mail I had sent him. The only use I have for Win95
is playing FreeCell.
Richard> When Torvald introduced Linux, all of that changed. It is
Richard> now possible for unix (Linux) to challenge Windows on the
Richard> desktop. The necessary work for success, however, has
Richard> just not been done. The foreseeable future is a world of
Richard> Linux servers serving Windows clients.
BSD unix was available cheaply for x86 years before linux came along.
Richard> On my RedHat installation I was given elm, exmh,
Richard> fetchmail, mailx, metamail, mutt, nmh, pine, slrn, tin,
Richard> trn, mailcap, procmail, sendmail, ppp, dip,
Richard> netscape-communicator, xrn, and xmailbox. If I list the
Richard> support- ing net packages, the list more than
Richard> doubles. All but a few of these packages can be
Richard> discarded, but to a newbit, which? Which rpm removal will
Richard> break the setup? RTFM, find the HOWTo. Uh-huh. All of
Richard> this just to get some pop 3 mail and some nntp messages?
Why not? It's about time someone introduced some sensibleness into
the usage of computers. Mass marketing has reduced the desktop
computer to little more than an expensive toy. How is my life
enriched by being able to send html mail? It isn't. Such frivolity
does nothing for anybody. Even worse are my pet peeves, -- DVD
players, TV Tuner cards and "desktop themes."
Richard> In Windows I was given Outlook Express. In Windows I was
Richard> asked for email address, smtp, pop3, and nntp, my user
Richard> id, my password, and the phone number. Done. It didn't
Richard> ask for DNS. It didn't ask me about ppp, chap, or pap. It
Richard> didn't ask me about the modem, it seemed to know where it
Richard> was and how to handle it. I didn't need to learn a new
Richard> user interface, I already knew how to run a Windows
Richard> app. It wasn't necessary to develop a keyboard template,
Richard> like the ones that were available for WordPerfect, so I
Richard> could remember the relevant keystrokes.
So, you were one of the lucky ones. Your experience does not seem to
be general for windows users.
Richard> Linux needs the desktop user base. More users mean better
Richard> hardware and software support, better quality, fuller
Richard> featured apps, and more money for taming the beast by the
Richard> distributors.
"The" desktop user base does not exist. Several different user bases
exist, one of which supports linux. The linux group can grow through
a combination of expanding hardware support and educating the users.
There's absolutely no reason to believe that the only way to succeed
with desktop users is to treat them like they're stupid.
On the contrary, most people who come to use linux are attracted by
the linux/unix assumption that the user will learn how to use his
system.
Richard> There is only a limited opportunity for Linux to succeed
Richard> on the desktop. Look at what has happened to
Richard> Microsoft. They frustrated users. The frustration lead to
Richard> anger. The anger lead to contempt, and the contempt lead
Richard> to hatred.
The core of linux users is not going to go away and will most likely
continue to grow. That's all that matters. It's fine with me if some
people want to follow your "make it more like Windows" mantra. Most
people here probably will want to hurl at the thought -- I know I do.
But the beauty of linux is that the "I want my Windows" crowd will
never be able to take over the OS and run the rest of us off the
planet.
Richard> You can see common reactions to Linux here. The
Richard> newsgroups always contain some frustrated newbit ranting
Richard> in expletives about Linux. Pay attention to what they are
Richard> saying. They are Linux's future. To successfully
Richard> challenge Microsoft's hegemony Linux needs to adapt to
Richard> them. They are not going to adapt to Linux.
Then they're losers. If you want to buy a new house and then spend
all your time making it like your old one, that's your business.
Please don't expect the rest of us to follow this somewhat bizarre
idea. The principal reason for buying the new house is to get <out>
of the old one.
mp
- --
Michael Powe Portland, Oregon USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.trollope.org
"Three hours a day will produce as much as a man ought to write."
-- Anthony Trollope
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (houghi)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy,linux.admin.isp,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Please Help - Linux Market Research
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:56:48 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 10 Mar 1999 01:00:01 GMT, "John P. DeFonso"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>------=_NextPart_000_0092_01BE6A62.08630940
>Content-Type: text/html;
> charset="iso-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
><HTML>
Please turn of HTML. If you do not know how to do this,
take a look at http://www.ping.be/houghi/nohtml
To filter out these messages, killfilter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To mail me delete the html
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