Linux-Misc Digest #119, Volume #20 Sat, 8 May 99 23:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: viewing Linux Xserver Xfree86 on NT ? (Robin Jackson)
Re: ppp problem (brian moore)
Re: LILO, can't boot from 2nd SCSI drive. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!GCC 2.7.2.3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HELP (Paul Kimoto)
Re: Star Office Installation (Brad Mills)
Re: ppp problem (Bill Unruh)
Re: Debian: still viable? (Paul Seelig)
removing -->{root@localhost) (Saqr Binghalib)
Re: Debian: still viable? ("David Z. Maze")
STB Nitro 3D / VX on Red Hat 4.2 ("Don Whitlow")
Strange modprobe problem... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Debian: still viable? (Carl Fink)
Re: read Macintosh *.doc -files (Carl Fink)
Re: Debian: still viable? ("Cameron Spitzer")
SuSE ISO/regular (Mr. Fabulous)
Re: How can X be so slow? (Charles E Taylor IV)
Re: Is Unix a single user operating system? (Rodger Donaldson)
Re: GNU reeks of Communism (Andrew Carol)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Robin Jackson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: viewing Linux Xserver Xfree86 on NT ?
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 17:29:58 +0100
In article <F3CX2.4515$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Larry Brasfield" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Please forgive me if I belabor issues that
>seem too obvious. Also, please so state if
>any of the following assumptions are false:
No problems, I am VERY glad of the help.
>1. You set the DISPLAY environment variable
> on your Linux box to reflect the net name of
> your Mac rather than "pcaddress".
YES
>2. You can successfully ping that same name.
YES
>3. When you start the X server, no errors are
> observed on the Mac side at that time.
NOT THAT I CAN SEE
>4. Your laptop is your Linux box.
YES
>5. When you attempt to start the X client on
> your Linux box, no errors are observable from
> whatever display you use to make the attempt.
NO
>6. If you start MiX in the default way, and set
> DISPLAY per above, then enter "xterm &" on
> the Linux console, you get to interact with a
> Linux shell thru a single window on the Mac.
> (The assumption is that your MiX setup is
> OK and the unsolved problem is merely to
> get a different window/desktop manager
> to run instead of MiX's TWM look-alike.
If I do all above and then type exec netscape for instanace netscape WILL
start up on my MI/X system.
If I type exec startx Xwindows starts on my Linux laptop.......
Oh bugger... I feel so close and yet so far... Mind you I get this
feeling ALL the time with Linux.
>> Is there something I am missing?
>
>Probably, but unless one of the above
>assumptions is wrong, I don't know what.
Robin
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Subject: Re: ppp problem
Date: 8 May 1999 22:51:02 GMT
On Sat, 08 May 1999 18:29:44 +0800,
Mars <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm setting up ppp connection to my isp. The following is the log:
>
> May 8 17:40:13 localhost pppd[289]: pppd 2.2.0 started by mars, uid 0
> May 8 17:40:14 localhost pppd[289]: Connect script failed
> May 8 17:40:14 localhost pppd[289]: Exit.
> May 8 17:41:19 localhost pppd[313]: pppd 2.2.0 started by root, uid 0
> May 8 17:41:45 localhost pppd[313]: Serial connection established.
> May 8 17:41:46 localhost pppd[313]: Using interface ppp0
> May 8 17:41:46 localhost pppd[313]: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/cua0
>
> Why i can establish the connection while login as root, but not ordinary
> user with su command?
Your paths are different. Try 'su -'.
You may also want to look at your chat script (probably in /etc/ppp) and
hardcode the path there. (Change the 'exec chat' to 'exec /usr/sbin/chat'
or whatever the proper path is.)
> And how can i end the connection? (i just kill the process)
There's probably a script to do it, but effectively, it just does the
same thing. (kill `cat /var/run/ppp0.pid` or whatever.) The name of
the script will depend on your distribution.
--
Brian Moore | "The Zen nature of a spammer resembles
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | a cockroach, except that the cockroach
Usenet Vandal | is higher up on the evolutionary chain."
Netscum, Bane of Elves. Peter Olson, Delphi Postmaster
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,linux.redhat.install
Subject: Re: LILO, can't boot from 2nd SCSI drive.
Date: 8 May 1999 16:39:17 GMT
Spotillius Maximus aka \"Spot\" <*****@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Peter, thanks for the help. I re-read the documentation last night before
> going to bed and played around a bit with lilo and was gathering some
> information with fdisk. My 1st drive has 1106 cylinders and it's split
> into two 4.5 gig partions that are used for Win98.
Does your system contain a or b? I.e. Do you use a software like Ontrack
something to access the whole disk or is that just up to Windows? IOW: Is
your first disk's Master Boot Record available? (If you just used a vanilla
Win98 this should be the case). If not: Do you have an extended partition?
If Win98 didn't change to much, it should have created the D: drive as
logical partition within an extended partition.
You can easily check this from Linux: run `fdisk -l' (as root) an you'll get
a list of all partitions on all your drives. Look for:
/dev/sda4 206 206 555 2811375 5 Extended
or similar (Note: this is a SCSI HDD, thus sda4)
> Do I need to make a small partion (<10megs) for the boot sector? I've
> used FIPS and am confortable with it. If that is the case, do I need to
> format that partion under Linux?
Only if neither bootsector is available (i.e. MBR is used already and no
extended partition exists on the first drive) you'd need to repartition and
add the smallest possible partition (you'll only need the bootsector). BTW:
Make sure this partition is below the infamous cylinder 1024. Then point
lilo to the right bootsector, i.e. change the line `boot=...' to
boot=/dev/hda # install the loader in the MBR
boot=/dev/hda2 # install the loader in the bootsector of some partition
replace hda with sda if you use SCSI HDDs instead of EIDE and hda2 with the
name of either the extended partition or the newly made partition.
This partition could be of any type as long as nothing overwrites the
bootsector. So setting its type to Linux and creating an ext2 system might
make sense just for safety.
> BTW>The info on the CD-ROM worked great. It was scd0 as you said it would
> be. Thanks for teaching me some new uses for the ls command.
I thought the grep did the trick ;-)
> I'm new to Linux and I'm suffering from information overload from all the
> reading.
It'll get better, I promise.
HIH,
Peter
--
Peter Gritsch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
`... so I'd rather you didn't try any last-minute stuff.'
I *AM* LAST-MINUTE STUFF, said Death, standing up.
[Terry Pratchett, Hogfather]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Kimoto)
Subject: Re: HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!GCC 2.7.2.3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HELP
Date: 8 May 1999 21:01:33 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, crooked eye wrote:
> I am very new to linux. I have downloaded numerous programs from
> the internet, but after I extract them I can't do anything else with the
> programs. I run ./configure the I get "configure: error: installation
> or configuration problem C compiler cannot create executables..
> Does anyone know how I can get a C compiler that will function
> properly so i can use some programs. I have been trying to use
> Koffice. (KDE office suite)
Which distribution are you running? Did you install gcc? binutils?
(libc development files? kernel header files?)
What is the (detailed) error recorded in config.log?
--
Paul Kimoto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Brad Mills)
Crossposted-To: ms.linux
Subject: Re: Star Office Installation
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 17:56:14 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Duane A. Bielling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hello,
>
>What is the executable for Star Office?
>
>After making some more harddisk space on another drive, cfdisk, e2mkfs,
>and installing (all in X started from my user account but implemented
>from a superuser shell) I now know not how to start Star Office. What I
>*did* do was to invoke "/apps/StarOffice/bin/soffice" (from my user
>account) which ls says looks like this:
Try running it as the same id as you installed it. In your case,
root.
Brad
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh)
Subject: Re: ppp problem
Date: 9 May 1999 01:03:02 GMT
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mars <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>And how can i end the connection? (i just kill the process)
That is how you do it.
killall pppd
That is what all the scripts which stop ppp do as well.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul Seelig)
Subject: Re: Debian: still viable?
Date: 9 May 99 01:30:04 GMT
Gene Wilburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> What's the word on Debian these days? Is it losing ground to the slicker
> distros or is it holding its own?
>
Corel is currently working with Debian developers to get the slickest
Linux distribution available out. Check out the mailing list archives
for debian-devel at www.debian.org for details.
> I'd be interested in hearing from Debian users about what they see as
> the advantages of the Debian distro.
>
It's reliable, *huge* and has a fantastic bug tracking system. The
updating mechanism (apt-get) is the best thing since the invention of
sliced bread. Actually Debian is exploding in sheer volume of
packages and dedicated package maintainers (more than 400 BTW). And
above all it's *quality* (though newbies won't be able to see it's
qualities without any prior Linux/Unix experience) is steadily
increasing.
> Is it straightforward to install
> packages like Applixware on Debian? How about packages like Oracle for
> Linux? (Not a troll -- these are honest questions. I don't know any
> Debian users.)
>
The closest one can get is probably with the "alien" package:
================ snip ========================
Package: alien
Status: install ok installed
Priority: extra
Section: admin
Installed-Size: 109
Maintainer: Joey Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Version: 6.28
Depends: debhelper (>= 0.88), perl (>= 5.004), rpm (>= 2.4.4-2), dpkg-dev, make
Suggests: patch, bzip2
Description: Install Red Hat, Stampede, and Slackware Packages with dpkg.
Alien allows you to convert Red Hat, Stampede and Slackware Packages into
Debian packages, which can be installed with dpkg.
.
It can also convert into Slackware, Red Hat, and Stampede packages.
.
This is a tool only suitable for binary packages.
================ snip ========================
Applix is running fine here BTW.
Cheers, P. *8^)
--
--------- Paul Seelig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -----------
African Music Archive - Institute for Ethnology and Africa Studies
Johannes Gutenberg-University - Forum 6 - 55099 Mainz/Germany
------------------- http://ntama.uni-mainz.de --------------------
------------------------------
From: Saqr Binghalib <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: removing -->{root@localhost)
Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 17:02:44 -0700
Hi,
I have tried a lot of things to remove [root@localhost] before the #
prompt, from users also.. I tried to look in the .profile but I couldn'f
find out how to do it ..
Could any one tell me how to remove it and just stay with # or $ .
I am using Red Hat 5.2
Thanks,
Saqr
------------------------------
From: "David Z. Maze" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Debian: still viable?
Date: 08 May 1999 21:48:48 -0400
Gene Wilburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
GW> I don't hear as much about the Debian distro as I used to. I
GW> visited the website today and it seems to be a bit behind the more
GW> commercial releases (Red Hat, Caldera, SuSE).
(Possibly because there isn't a corporation behind Debian with real
money to spend on advertising; Debian is entirely a volunteer effort.)
GW> What's the word on Debian these days? Is it losing ground to the slicker
GW> distros or is it holding its own?
Debian traditionally has been a little slower to get releases "out the
door", as it were. This is mostly a consequence of an extensive
testing cycle. Debian 2.0 was a year in development, for example, but
was a *working* libc6 distribution with *working* libc5
compatibility. All of the serious bugs were ironed out in the
pre-release "freeze" stage.
GW> I'd be interested in hearing from Debian users about what they see
GW> as the advantages of the Debian distro.
-- Simple, working upgrade path: 'apt-get update; apt-get
dist-upgrade' will upgrade you from one version of Debian to the
next. Individual packages can be installed from the command line
or using the dselect interface.
-- Centralized package repository; no looking for random RPMs on the
'net and hoping they work.
-- Working dependency system: packages depend on other packages, and
you can programmatically download everything you need to install
something (e.g. 'apt-get install foo' will download and install foo
and all of its dependencies in one fell swoop). No looking for the
magical package that contains libfoobar.so.73.
-- Good quality control: released packages actually work.
-- Standards compliance: packages try to comply with FSSTND/FHS as
much as possible. Packages just don't dump things in /usr/local or
/opt *shudder*.
-- Backwards compatibility: libc5 binaries and libraries work fine on
Debian systems.
GW> I applaud it naming itself GNU/Linux and am half tempted to
GW> install it but I don't want to cut myself off from the Linux
GW> mainstream.
AFAICT the "Linux mainstream" is still running a RH5-based system,
which means GNU libc 2.0. Debian 2.1 is essentially equivalent in
terms of features.
If you're more ambitious and like to live on the cutting edge, Debian
has a very open development process. You're free to run the current
"unstable" distribution, which has GNU libc 2.1 and XFree86 3.3.3.1,
among other things. This is also less likely to Just Work; unstable
has run into problems from time to time. (It's also what I run on my
personal machine. :-)
GW> Is it straightforward to install packages like Applixware on
GW> Debian? How about packages like Oracle for Linux? (Not a troll --
GW> these are honest questions. I don't know any Debian users.)
I honestly don't know. Presumably one could install them into
/usr/local without a terrible amount of trouble.
--
David Maze [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://donut.mit.edu/dmaze/
"Hey, Doug, do you mind if I push the Emergency Booth Self-Destruct Button?"
"Oh, sure, Dave, whatever...you _do_ know what that does, right?"
------------------------------
From: "Don Whitlow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: STB Nitro 3D / VX on Red Hat 4.2
Date: 8 May 1999 21:47:40 GMT
Hi All,
Another hopefully simple question for you all. I have an STB Nitro 3D card,
with the S3 Virge / GX 1.3 chipset on it. I have been having a problem
configuring this card to correctly run X on my system. I have tried all of
the STB Virge-based cards, including the generic's, included in Red Hat
4.2, all of which don't work. Most of the errors look related to the fact
that the chipset is unrecognized.
Has anyone gotten this card to work correctly in Red Hat 4.2? (I'm not
really ready to upgrade to 5.2 or better yet). I have a CTX 15" Monitor
(CTX-1562-GM), which will do 1024x768 pretty well. (I used to have a
Trident based card that worked fine with this config, but I thought I would
step up by a Meg in memory using the STB card.)
How would I go about getting this new card to work? Thanks in advance for
any help you can give me.
Sincerely,
Don
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Strange modprobe problem...
Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 18:56:52 GMT
After some investigating and going through a bunch of source code, I
found that during boot "/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup-aliases"
is executed and it calls "linuxconf --hint ipalias $1" where $1 is
some device name, lo, eth0 etc.. linuxconf then promptly starts
checking the kernel for the the aliases $1:0, $1:1 on up to $1:49. If
the kernel is compiled with "Networking options ---> IP: aliasing
support" turned off, then there are no aliases to check so the kernel
will call modprobe in order to load them and modprobe will
subsequently fail. You can either compile alias support into your
kernel or you can do what I did since I didn't want alias support in
my kernel. What I did is renamed
"/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup-aliases" to
"/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup-aliases.dontrun" and create a new
"/etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifup-aliases" with just "#!/bin/sh" at
the top of the file (without the quotes of course) and permissions
755. If in the future you are going to uses aliases you will just
have to compile in alias support into the kernel and restore your
ifup-aliases file back to normal.
On Thu, 29 Apr 1999 13:27:30 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I'm currently running RedHat v5.2 w/Linux kernel 2.2.7 and having the
>infamous "modprobe: can't locate module..." problem. Like previous posts
>have mentioned before, I looked through all the FAQ's and messages I could
>find to solve this, but my situation appears to be unique.
>
>My particular message repeats numerous times when booting the kernel and says:
>
>modprobe: can't locate module eth0:0
>modprobe: can't locate module eth0:1
>modprobe: can't locate module eth0:2
>
>...And so on, until it counts all the way up to 49.
>
>Right after this, it shows the module for my Intel EtherExpress 10/100 card
>loading just fine (which seems to work perfectly, BTW). The other strange
>occurance is right after this, I get yet another message that says:
>
>modprobe: can't locate module lo:0
>modprobe: can't locate module lo:1
>modprobe: can't locate module lo:2
>
>...And so on, until it counts up to 40.
>
>Everything on my system seems to work just fine. I just can't figure out why
>this just started happening. It actually first appeared yesterday with Linux
>kernel 2.2.6 and continues with 2.2.7. The only thing I changed was removing
>on old ISA based SoundBlaster 16 PNP card and adding a new SoundBlaster PCI
>128. I compiled the kernel to support the new card and removed support for
>the old card. Also, since I'm no longer running any ISA based cards, I
>removed support for ISAPNP.
>
>Any help with this matter would be GREATLY appreciated!
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Remove the letters N, O, S, P, A,and M from
my return address to reply.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Carl Fink)
Subject: Re: Debian: still viable?
Date: 9 May 1999 08:48:50 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 08 May 1999 23:43:12 GMT Gene Wilburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I'd be interested in hearing from Debian users about what they see as
>the advantages of the Debian distro.
In my case, very largely "inertia". When I first installed Linux on
my previous computer, Red Hat's install disk wouldn't recognize my
CD-ROM and Debian's would. (So would Slackware, but I like the
package tool in Debian better than the one in Slack.) I've stuck with
Debian ever since mainly to avoid having to learn a different
configuration and package tool.
Don't be misled by the terminology: every Debian user who's
interested in "cutting edge" runs the packages from "unstable". It
just means "not a complete distribution yet", it doesn't mean that the
packages there are in fact unstable.
I personally run kernel 2.0.36 still, because 2.2.x offers me no
particular advantage and I have no reason to upgrade.
>Is it straightforward to install
>packages like Applixware on Debian? How about packages like Oracle for
>Linux? (Not a troll -- these are honest questions. I don't know any
>Debian users.)
I installed WordPerfect and StarOffice with zero problems. Never
tried Applixware or Oracle.
--
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"This fool wishes to reverse the entire science of astronomy."
-Martin Luther on Copernicus' theory that the Earth orbits the sun
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Carl Fink)
Subject: Re: read Macintosh *.doc -files
Date: 9 May 1999 08:50:52 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 09 May 1999 01:01:08 +0000 Ekkard Gerlach
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Is there a possibility to read Winword-documents ? Is StarOffice able to
>read Mac and Windows-Word ?
StarOffice claims to read Word 97 documents. (The Mac and Windows
versions use the same file format, so they should be equally easy or
hard to read.) It's not perfect, but if all you want is the text it
should be fine.
--
Carl Fink [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum
<http://dm.net>
------------------------------
From: "Cameron Spitzer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Debian: still viable?
Date: 9 May 1999 02:04:59 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Gene Wilburn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>There's a 'non-stable' release called 'Potato' that runs on the Linux
>2.2.X kernel but the 'stable' release (2.1) is back at 2.0.36.
>
>What's the word on Debian these days? Is it losing ground to the slicker
>distros or is it holding its own?
Within the last six months I've installed Red Hat 5.1, SuSE 6.0, and
Debian 2.1. The installs are all equally easy. Debian takes the longest
because it lets you make the most decisions. In my experience, it's
the most complete, and the most stuff works when you're done.
Red Hat's disk partitioning tool, network setup, and Xconfigurator were
broken. And the one time we called Red Hat for the professional
help desk support we paid the $40 for, they told us, sorry, we don't
have any information about sound cards here.
AFAIC, Emperor Red Hat wears no clothes.
SuSE's X setup worked except the xterm font menu is broken.
I'm typing this message on a Debian 2.1 desktop under 2.2.7.
Debian 2.1 comes with 2.0.36 but it built and ran 2.2.7 with no problems.
Cameron
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mr. Fabulous)
Subject: SuSE ISO/regular
Date: Sun, 09 May 1999 02:08:28 GMT
Aside from SuSE, Inc. is anyone aware of an FTP site to d/l this
distribution: Preferably in ISO, although regular archive will do??
--
Mr. Fabulous
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charles E Taylor IV)
Subject: Re: How can X be so slow?
Date: Sat, 8 May 1999 22:15:28 -0400
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I never could understand why people want to use 1024x768 on a 15"
> or smaller monitor. How can they see anything? 800x600 should
> be OK.
Unfortunately, 800x600 in X is *painfully* small. I have only one
computer running X that I run at below 1024x768, and that's because it
displays on a television (not a monitor). Can't get my work done in
anything less than 1024x768 - I mess with large spreadsheets and the
more of them I can see, the better. Even if they *are* small.
> Also, can the human eye tell the difference between 16bpp
> and 24bpp?
That depends on the test pattern. Try Windowmaker's gradients.
> There's probably a slight improvement, but it's not
> worth straining the HW when 800x600x16bpp is a reasonable
> compromise between appearance and performance.
1024x768x24 shouldn't really be a strain on any "modern" graphics
card, but if the hardware's too slow, I'd take the color depth hit (24
-> 16) before the resolution hit.
--
========================================================
Charles E Taylor IV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
========================================================
Visit me on the web!
http://orangesherbert.ces.clemson.edu
========================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rodger Donaldson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc
Subject: Re: Is Unix a single user operating system?
Date: Sun, 9 May 1999 13:50:05 +1159
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 08 May 1999 00:56:00 -0500, Michael Maxwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>"Rolf Marvin B�e Lindgren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> all of this convinced me that an operating system that does not support
>> an OPERATOR concept is fundamentally single-user. there muse be a user
>> midway between user and root.
>
>Well, being an AS/400 operator, I can say that I agree with you here. The
>concept you describe above is no problem on AS/400 either. But UNIX does
>tend to fall short in this area.
>
>However, there are programs that help.
That's the reason capabilities exist.
--
Rodger Donaldson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Whenever you get mysterious behavior, try the -w switch!!!
Whenever you don't get mysterious behavior, try using -w anyway."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Carol)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: GNU reeks of Communism
Date: Sat, 08 May 1999 20:04:14 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> How can anyone love software that is bug-ridden and forces its users
> (perhaps ``victims'' would be a better word) to continually walk the
> treadmill of expensive and time-consuming ``upgrades'', becasue of
> deliberate incompatibilities with file formats etc on newer versions?
>
> A lot of people only put up with Windows' faults because they don't
> know better; only being aware of one example, they think all software
> is like that.
It's easy to like crappy software when there is nothing else. The Free
software movement has done very little for the consumer. I'm sure it
will over time, but not today. Can't blame MS for that. It's not
like they can stop people from writting the stuff.
There are those here who blame MS and others for the average consumers
not knowing about Free software. My point is that even if they all
knew and agreed, it would do them no good. A free consumer OS and
consumer type applications simply don't exist now.
We here expect a lot out of an OS because we do large things and Windows
fails terribly for our needs. However the average consumer expects little
and is therefore not very unhappy. Their games work, their word processor
runs okay, and they rarely have a crash.
Many of the power users here extrapolate their experience to that of the
average consumer and they are wrong. They then look for reasons why
consumers aren't rushing to the Free Softare banner and become bitter
assuming that MS is somehow causing this.
Our Windows expereince is horrible and Free software makes our very
occupations possible. The consumers windows experience is tolerable
and Free software is of no help to them.
---- Andrew
--
Andrew Carol [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Remove leading x from my address to e-mail)
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
