Linux-Misc Digest #446, Volume #21 Wed, 18 Aug 99 07:13:10 EDT
Contents:
Re: Troll (was: why not C++?) (Timo Tossavainen)
Re: Marx vs. Nozick (Ketil Z Malde)
Samba Mapping drives based upon group membership (Raymonds Doetjes)
SAMBA->Mapping drives based upon group membership (Raymonds Doetjes)
Re: why not C++? (Christopher B. Browne)
Re: Selecting GUIs? (Abbadon)
Re: Can I switch from OS/2 to Linux and be happy? (John Thompson)
Re: Comparing HPFS to ext2fs... (John Thompson)
Re: ICQ and linux client (Walter Francis)
Re: Linux vs. Unix (Floyd Davidson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Timo Tossavainen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: Troll (was: why not C++?)
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 11:36:05 +0300
Stephan Houben wrote:
> Timo Tossavainen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Graffiti wrote:
> >
> > > Oh god. The return of the LISP machines.... *shudder*
> > > They weren't *bad*, but look at where they are now. See my point?
> > > (Or rather, don't see it? :-)
> >
> > Well, I think the lisp machines had specialized chips to evaluate lisp and were
> > quite proprietary. I think a modern open Lisp OS would be a good idea.
>
> I disagree. It's a bad idea to have a Lisp OS, a C++ OS, a Java OS,
> and basically any X OS where X is a programming language. Why?
> Because a general purpose OS should *never* force a particular
> programming language upon its users. No language is perfect.
> Every language sucks, if confronted with the "right" (i.e. the wrong)
> application area.
Who ever said anything about general purpose ? I didn't mean to exclude other
languages, just the design and the internals of the OS (including the GUI and audio)
would be done using a Lisp mindset and a Lisp compiler rather than the C mindset and
a C compiler, it would at least be more extensible if done right and safer if the
safety checks would be left on. Using Lisp in Linux is harder than using C/C++
because the internals and the libraries are in C and the Lisp way of doing things is
different. No language is perfect, but some languages are more perfect than others
=) No seriously, the need to communicate with C is taking away some of the
expressive power of Lisp and forcing it to live at least partially in the static
world of C. For instance, it's probably practically impossible to build fine-grained
source code level parallel processing which is possible in functional languages on
top of C-style threads. That would probably require linking the kernel scheduler to
the lisp evaluator.
Timo
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Marx vs. Nozick
From: Ketil Z Malde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 08:38:15 GMT
Phillip Lord <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Ketil> The wrong part is the idea that you can have a plan economy
> Ketil> on a large scale, i.e. replacing the market forces with
> Ketil> detailed control from above.
> All the govts seemed to plan their economies during WWII okay.
> What has changed precisely.
Well, there's no longer a full-scale war going on, for one thing.
This is rather fundamental, both on a psychological level (people were
working for their future lives, not just to afford one more TV set),
and on an industrial (a lot of industrial output were consumed by the
war effort - i.e. the government)
Yet I was under the impression that most/a lot of the war industry
were done by private firms. Am I wrong?
Anyway, it'd be interested to see the kind of economic growth
countries experienced during the war.
> Ketil> In a capitalistic system, to get resources you need to
> Ketil> convince investors of your profitability potential
> And who says investors have any sense.
Nobody. But it's their money, and they usually *care*. We're in the
middle of an election campaign here, and the politicians are working
overtime to come up with the most "generous" bids of public spending.
> Look at the investment into all the internet companies which havent
> made a penny.
What are you saying, that these will never pay off, and that it is a
waste of resources?
> Added to which what about all those who are starving who don't have
> any money. The capitalist system does take much notice there, does
> it?
Redistribution of wealth is not antithetical to capitalism. People
starve in communist, socialist and just about any system you could
care to mention. Stalins planned economy SU starved millions, not
unlike the plan economy North Korea today.
-kzm
--
If I haven't seen further, it is by standing in the footprints of giants
------------------------------
From: Raymonds Doetjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: Samba Mapping drives based upon group membership
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:56:28 +0200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
==============06C186310AAA64D87C004EF2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
(Sorry I forgot to attache the sample files sorry about that ;-)
I have created a logonscript.pl wich creates Windows logonscripts on the
fly on a per user bases. This means that there are virtualy no problems
anymore for creating complex inlog scripts based upon group memberships.
You can also extend this logonscript.pl to create even more complex
tasks (like I have done such as starting the X-server on the windows
machine and starting sever X application during the inlog process). You
can do anything aslong as the Client can start those applications from a
batch file ;-)
This is done by the use of the
root preexec method in the [netlogon] service wich is started first.
To use this script you should add these changes to your smb.conf file
[global]
logon script = %U.bat
[netlogon]
; This first statement runs de logonscript.pl file with de username as
paramter
root prexec = /usr/local/netlogon/logonscript.pl %U
;This second statement removes the %U.bat file after the user has
disconnected from this share/service
root postexec = rm /usr/local/netlogon/%U.bat
I have attached my own smb.conf and the logonscript.pl
You should alter the $server="PHONAX" constant in to your own server
such as
$server="MYSERVER"; whatever ;-)
Perhaps you should edit the logonscript.pl file to alter the paths of
the group file and the destination path of the %U.bat file. I always use
/usr/local/netlogon
Regards
Raymond Doetjes
==============06C186310AAA64D87C004EF2
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii;
name="smb.conf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
filename="smb.conf"
[global]
workgroup = phonax!
guest account = nobody
keep alive = 30
os level = 2
security = user
printing = bsd
printcap name = /etc/printcap
load printers = yes
domain master = yes
preferred master = yes
domain logons = yes
logon path = \\phonax\%U\profiles
#logon script = logon.bat
logon script = %U.bat
logon drive = h:
logon home = "\\phonax\%U"
encrypt passwords = yes
socket options = TCP_NODELAY
; Please uncomment the following entry and replace the
; ip number and netmask with the correct numbers for
; your ethernet interface.
interfaces = 194.79.210.1/255.255.255.0
; If you want Samba to act as a wins server, please set
; 'wins support = yes'
wins support = yes
; If you want Samba to use an existing wins server,
; please uncomment the following line and replace
; the dummy with the wins server's ip number.
; wins server = 192.168.1.1
[netlogon]
comment = On the fly creation off Logon script
root preexec = /usr/local/netlogon/logonscript.pl %U
root postexec = rm /usr/local/netlogon/%U.bat
path = /usr/local/netlogon
guest ok = no
read only = no
locking = no
[homes]
comment = Home directories
browseable = no
read only = no
create mode = 0750
oplocks = True
; The following share gives all users access to the Server's CD drive,
; assuming it is mounted under /cd. To enable this share, please remove
; the semicolons before the lines
;
[root]
comment = Alles
path = /
read only = yes
oplocks = True
[cdrom]
comment = Linux CD-ROM
path = /cdrom
read only = yes
locking = no
[zip]
comment = Linux ZIP drive
path = /mnt
read only = no
locking = no
[prikbord]
comment = Voor tijdelijk gebruik
path = /prikbord
read only = no
locking =no
oplocks = True
[archief]
comment = Voor permanente opslag
path = /archief
read only = no
locking = no
oplocks = True
[sybase]
comment = Sybase sotfware dir
path = /opt/sybase
read only = no
locking = yes
oplocks = true
[printers]
comment = All Printers
browseable = no
printable = yes
public = no
read only = yes
create mode = 0700
directory = /tmp
==============06C186310AAA64D87C004EF2
Content-Type: application/x-perl;
name="logonscript.pl"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline;
filename="logonscript.pl"
#!/usr/bin/perl
##Const that identiefies the servername
$server="PHONAX";
##1 Open /etc/group.
##2 Parse the data with the : char so that you get group name,x and users
##3 Now on item 3 in the parsed array is are the users
##4 Now parse the user list with a , char to obtain the individual users
sub ingroup($)
{
open (FD,"</etc/group");
while (<FD>)
{
my $a=$_;
my @parsed=split(':',$a);
if (@parsed[0] eq @_[0])
{
my @user=split(",",@parsed[3]);
foreach $user (@user)
{
$user =~ s/\n//g;
if ($user eq lc($ARGV[0])) {return 1};
}
}
}
}
##Start to create the logon script
open (LOGON,">/usr/local/netlogon/$ARGV[0].bat");
##Map default drives that are used by everyone
##The douvle slashes are needed since perl interprets a single \ is a
##control charachet. So this leaves us with a syntax that is common with the
##smbclient asswell
print LOGON "\@ECHO OFF\r\n";
print LOGON "NET TIME \\\\$server /SET /YES\r\n";
print LOGON "NET USE H: /HOME\r\n";
print LOGON "NET USE E: \\\\$server\\ZIP\r\n";
print LOGON "NET USE J: \\\\$server\\PRIKBORD\r\n";
print LOGON "NET USE G: \\\\$server\\ARCHIEF\r\n";
##Map drives based upon group memberships
##The double slashes are needed since perl interprets a single \ as a
##cpntrol character
if (&ingroup("sybase")) {print LOGON "NET USE I: \\\\$server\\SYBASE\r\n"};
close LOGON;
close FD;
==============06C186310AAA64D87C004EF2==
------------------------------
From: Raymonds Doetjes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Subject: SAMBA->Mapping drives based upon group membership
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 10:54:29 +0200
I have created a logonscript.pl wich creates Windows logonscripts on the
fly on a per user bases. This means that there are virtualy no problems
anymore for creating complex inlog scripts based upon group memberships.
You can also extend this logonscript.pl to create even more complex
tasks (like I have done such as starting the X-server on the windows
machine and starting sever X application during the inlog process). You
can do anything aslong as the Client can start those applications from a
batch file ;-)
This is done by the use of the
root preexec method in the [netlogon] service wich is started first.
To use this script you should add these changes to your smb.conf file
[global]
logon script = %U.bat
[netlogon]
; This first statement runs de logonscript.pl file with de username as
paramter
root prexec = /usr/local/netlogon/logonscript.pl %U
;This second statement removes the %U.bat file after the user has
disconnected from this share/service
root postexec = rm /usr/local/netlogon/%U.bat
I have attached my own smb.conf and the logonscript.pl
You should alter the $server="PHONAX" constant in to your own server
such as
$server="MYSERVER"; whatever ;-)
Perhaps you should edit the logonscript.pl file to alter the paths of
the group file and the destination path of the %U.bat file. I always use
/usr/local/netlogon
Regards
Raymond Doetjes
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher B. Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system
Subject: Re: why not C++?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 02:53:15 GMT
On 16 Aug 1999 18:16:56 GMT, William Burrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> posted:
>On Mon, 16 Aug 1999 13:38:25 GMT,
>Christopher B. Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>I also noticed in this thread posits like "because g++ is not up to the
>>>task" etc, etc. But I am sure that the developers of the Linux kernel
>>>uncovered more then 1 bug in gcc!
>>
>>GCC has represented a stable C compiler for many years now, and may
>>be considered mature.
>
>True, but for sure bugs were found in gcc -- look for comments in the
>kernel source about these! There are also source optimizations to get
>around limitations in the gcc optimizer. There are few comments in
>Linux kernel source, but some of them are mighty interesting. :)
Toss in G++, and there will doubtless be a *host* of new bugs, just
'cause the code isn't *nearly* as mature.
- Just look back at the flame wars of the last year over the
merits/demerits of EGCS.
- Look at the number of not-quite-interoperable libg++ versions.
Some might draw the conclusion from such things that G++ is "rubbish;"
after removing such extreme positions from the population of issues,
we're still left with the conclusion that G++ has been changing quite
a lot and is not yet "stable."
>>If you want to have an OS written in C++, then it makes sense to start
>>designing a C++-based OS kernel.
>
>There are kernels designed in C++ no doubt. I think the Tune OS page
>has a listing of various kernels. Memory fades....
>
>>It would make more sense to me to design such in something a bit less
>>egregariously complex, perhaps in Modula 3. This would have the clear
>>merit that people wouldn't make the Bad Mistake of assuming that they
>>could just fiddle with the C code and turn it into M3 as seems to be
>>the case with attempts to misdirect Linux kernel development to C++.
>
>Could we start with a C library done in a Wirthian language? Ack, the
>horror.... :)
I suggest M3 for three reasons:
a) There are examples of OS kernels implemented in it (SPIN);
b) There is actual merit to the idea, as M3, while "Wirthian," is
nonetheless a fairly nice language, and most importantly,
c) Since there's no subset in common with C, nobody will make the
mistake of thinking that it's a quick port, as might be the case
with C++.
--
Rules of the Evil Overlord #39. "All naive, busty tavern wenches in my
realm will be replaced with surly, world-weary waitresses who will
provide no unexpected reinforcement and/or romantic subplot for the
hero or his sidekick."
<http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html>
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Abbadon)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: Selecting GUIs?
Date: 18 Aug 1999 10:38:19 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Brett Lanham wrote:
>Isn't gnome actually a desktop environment like kde is whereas afterstep
>is just a window manager. I'd recommend window maker. Yes I know your
>asking how to switch and this had nothing to do with that, sorry.
>
>brett
>
>
>Brent Davies wrote:
>>
>> I _know_ this is a lame question, but I'm not affraid to admit that I'm
>> still a beginner.
>>
>> I just installed RH6 and Gnome was the default Xwindows GUI. I switched to
>> AfterStep (because I like it), but I noticed that there isn't a nice easy
>> (graphical) way to switch it back to Gnome.
>>
>> How to I manually edit the Xwindows environment to reflect the fact that I'd
>> like the X Server to load Gnome instead of AfterStep?
>>
>> Thanks!
>> -Brent
You have to edit .xinitrc There may be a graphical way to switch but I don't
know of it. To switch back to Gnome (I am going on memeory here. I use gnome
but I only use the panel and even then not that much) put in .xinitrc
exec gnome-session
exec panel
exec (window manager of choice)
The first brings up the gnome desktop, the second brings up the panel and the
last brings up your window manager.
Abbadon
--
Good and Evil are only matters of opinion
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Thompson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.misc,comp.os.os2.apps,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Can I switch from OS/2 to Linux and be happy?
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 02:47:10 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In <YdyFBheS0Q37-pn2-OHcDb8lzdj8M@localhost>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Zephyr Q)
writes:
> Or, more importantly, how can I make the switch with as
>little grief as possible?
>
> For example, I'm already playing with RH 5.2 (waiting for
>SuSe 6.2 to come out) and have been playing with AfterStep.
>I'm looking for a WM or Xserver (am I showing my newbiness?)
>that most approximates the Work Place Shell on OS/2.
>
> I also would like suggestions on what things to 'tweak' in
>X to make it work more like OS/2--I realize that X
>(specifically XFree86) *is* different, but I used OS/2 Warp
>3 for *years* and have gotten very comfortable and
>productive with it (on a 486DX4-120).
I haven't found anything in linux that approaches the depth of
the OS/2 WPS. There are some window managers and desktop
environments that can be configured to look like the WPS, but
they don't work like it. If you're still using that 486DX4-120
you may want to forgo the fashionable window managers like KDE or
Enlightment or gnome as they have pretty steep hardware
requirements and probably won't be very satisfying on that old
486 box. I suggest XFCE (http://www.xfce.org) as an excellent,
low overhead window manager and desktop. It's not the WPS but it
does grow on you (looks a lot like CDE if you're familiar with
that) and is surprisingly versatile. I started using it on my
old 5x86/133 32MB machine and continue to use it on the new
PII-350 128MB machine because I do like it.
-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Thompson)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Comparing HPFS to ext2fs...
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 03:00:30 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Darin McBride"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>Personally, I don't trust the Linux drivers to not mess my EAs, etc., so I
>would only use the hpfs drivers in read-only mode. I would, however, trust
>the ext2fs drivers to work fully. The reason? OS/2 uses EAs, Linux doesn't.
I've used the linux hpfs read/write drivers without problems. As
you say, linux is EA-unaware, so it doesn't even try to write
EA's when you write files to the hpfs partition. In hpfs, the
EA's are stored in each file's fnode and are safe from any
tampering by EA-unaware programs (unlike on a FAT partition,
where they reside in the "EA DATA. SF" pseudofile, which can be
clobbered by EA-unaware programs).
OTOH, I am reluctant to use the OS/2 ext2 filesystem driver as it
can only access the ext2 partitions with "root" privleges,
leaving it wide-open to all sorts of trouble.
> I prefer using the native file systems for each OS as they are likely to be
>the most feature-rich and stable.
And, more important, designed for the system you're using.
-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: Walter Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ICQ and linux client
Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 04:01:16 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> So much time on getting a working ICQ! Using the Linuxberg site
> reccomendations was a waste of time, for me at least. I tried the kde
> version .. kicq, which popped up on screen but dies on a segmentation
> fault.
Whew.. I've been having (what I think are) hardware problems, and this
is at least one more piece of software I can check off as being faulty
programming.
BTW, the 'fix' is to edit the .kicq/(config) file manually. It's in the
INSTALL file or somesuch.. I tinkered with it, liking the idea of the
send/receive messages all being tied together, but it just doesn't feel
right.. It's still pretty beta.
I have been using licq for a few months now, and I'm quite happy with
it.. 0.61 works quite well, and the newer version 0.70 is great.. 0.70
requires the 2.0 QT libraries, which is kind of a bear to get it all
straight to compile and run, so I'd stick with 0.61 unless you have QT
2.0 compiled and know how to setup ls.so.conf and all that to get 0.70
compiled. Main thing 0.70 added for me was the Web Presence deal, so my
status pops up on my webpage.. :)
I trimmed the crosspostings out, and am wondering why this was in
*.misc, *.questions, and (another, it's late :) rather than
*.networking, but anyway. :)
--
Walter Francis
http://wally.hplx.net Powered by RedHat 6.0
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Floyd Davidson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Linux vs. Unix
Date: 18 Aug 1999 09:38:33 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Richard Steiner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Floyd Davidson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>However, Barrow does happen to be the northern most incorporated
>>city in the _world_, not just North America (and on top of that,
>>just saying "American" as opposed to "North America" generally
>>is accepted to mean the USA only).
>
>How about Resolute Bay? :-) Though that might just be a couple of
>gravel runways and a research station.
I'm not sure what is there, but it isn't much, and it isn't
an incorporated city.
>Question: we look at weather for Dead Horse all the time (IATA station
>code SCC) at work. Where is that relative to you, and what type of
>place is it?
>
>I've always thought it had a rather cool (if depressing) name. :-)
Deadhorse is about 210 miles east and a little south from
Barrow, and is the base of operations for the Prudhoe Bay oil
field. Pump Station #1, at the head of the Trans-Alaska
Pipeline, is located there. Basically it is an oil company
town, but Tundra Tours runs at least one 737 jet load of people
through there every day on a tour that goes either Fairbanks to
Deadhorse via bus (close to 400 miles) and then via Alaska
Airlines 737 jet to Barrow and back to Fairbanks, or it goes in
the opposite direction with the bus ride from Deadhorse to
Fairbanks last.
The area around Deadhorse is much like Barrow, with very flat
features and vast expanses of Arctic Tundra.
Floyd
--
Floyd L. Davidson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)
------------------------------
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