Linux-Misc Digest #742, Volume #21 Thu, 9 Sep 99 19:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (Anthony Ord)
Re: X clients-- allowing??? (William Burrow)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (Anthony Ord)
Re: bypassing fsck ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Help! I screwed up fstab kernel panics (Matthias Kilian)
Re: Shutdown Problem (Graffiti)
Re: One must-have program for a newbie (Peter Bishop)
Netscape crushes with Java Apletts ("Kermit")
Abit BP6 with Linux, Power switch issues (paul)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (Matthias Warkus)
How to install sound card with Linux Mandrake ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
rxvt scrolling (aydincem)
Installing Modem with Linux Mandrake 5.2 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: bypassing fsck (Bob Hauck)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: LILO scrambled after power down (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Re: How to protect Telnet users? (Bob Hauck)
Creating and script file (Alvaro Garriga)
Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie (Darren Winsper)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Ord)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:02:59 GMT
On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 14:16:04 -0700, K. Bjarnason
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[snips]
>
>In article <7r16ji$ec7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>says...
>> K. Bjarnason ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>> : > tar -C / -xzvf foo.tar.gz
>>
>> : Now, now, let's not be silly. Compare this to a typical Win9x
>> : distribution. (Speaking here of installable end-user apps, not data
>> : files, etc.)
>>
>> I suppose you're not talking about downloading and compiling source, then?
>
>I'm playing end-user here; of course not. :)
>
>
>> You know, if you had a clue about any of this, you'd realize that it is
>> usually source that is packaged in tarballs.
>
>Golly gee, like I didn't know that. I also happen to know that out of
>the times I've downloaded apps for Linux that weren't part of the
>distribution package they usually came as... source.
>
>> Debian and RedHat have
>> developed some nice package management systems for installing compiled
>> applications. If a user is scared of decompressing and untar'ing a file,
>> how do you think he'll feel about compiling it? He'd best stick with
>> packages.
>
>Indeed. Now, of the package systems available, which is the standard
>one? Or even three?
--- START INSERT ---
On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:40:37 -0700, K. Bjarnason
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The two major ways of distributing Win9* native apps is to either stuff
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>them into ZIP files or to packagae them as self-extracting EXE files.
--- END INSERT ---
and you haven't even covered the "minor" ways of distributing apps.
People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
<snip>
>Yes, yes, *you* like command-lines and switches. So do *I*. About 98%
>of the desktop users out there do NOT; they want it point-and-click
>easy; compare your method above to "click on setup.exe or the .EXE file
>you just downloaded."
You mean you have to download first with Windows? My that sounds hard. How
would you do that then? Does it support re-getting the file when the link
dies?
How do you know which version of DirectX your download requires? How do you
know that it doesn't need IE4 which you have sworn will not touch your
machine?
Oh you don't? Oh dear.
Hard to use, fragile and crap - the Microsoft Windows Experience.
Regards
Anthony
<snip>
--
=========================================
| And when our worlds |
| They fall apart |
| When the walls come tumbling in |
| Though we may deserve it |
| It will be worth it - Depeche Mode |
=========================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (William Burrow)
Subject: Re: X clients-- allowing???
Date: 9 Sep 1999 16:56:34 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 9 Sep 1999 02:04:48 -0400,
Brian Joseph Carmody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>I have X serving my localhost, but i also want to be able to run X
>sessions with other machines on the network (instead of telneting into
>them). Where is the conf file where you add the hosts with are allowed to
>connect to your machine???? (Red Hat 6.0) Thanks in advance
If you use xdm to log into your machine, such a file is created
automatically. If you use NFS to share the /home directory with all the
machines, then this file is referenced automatically. Any other
conditions require you to do work.
See man xauth for some tips. It is really quite nifty to start X apps
from other machines and see them on your desktop....
--
William Burrow -- New Brunswick, Canada o
Copyright 1999 William Burrow ~ /\
~ ()>()
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Anthony Ord)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 17:02:58 GMT
On Mon, 6 Sep 1999 11:40:37 -0700, K. Bjarnason
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
>Now, now, let's not be silly. Compare this to a typical Win9x
>distribution. (Speaking here of installable end-user apps, not data
>files, etc.)
>
>The two major ways of distributing Win9* native apps is to either stuff
>them into ZIP files or to packagae them as self-extracting EXE files.
>
>For zip files, you double-click the file and up comes (assuming some
>nice person has pointed you at it)
Assuming?
>WinZip, which offers options from
>extracting individual files to the whole archive, to reading invididual
>files, to installing the app.
>
>You click "Install", WinZip minimizes, you install using the defaults,
>it's all done. And you never have to worry about command-line switches,
>or whether it's going into / or /usr or /foo; it pops up a dialog box
>with a predefined default location, all you need to do, unless you have
>reason to need otherwise, is just click "Next".
>
>Once the install is done, WinZip comes back up, cleans up after itself,
>and you can close it and run your app. Simple, no fancy commands
>required.
Ooh! That sounds hard! All I have to do is run dselect and hit "+" next to
stuff I want. It automatically takes lets me know about dependencies, so I can
see that it requires a 40Mb browser before I even think of downloading it. The
I hit install and it even downloads it for me, It then installs and configures
and I don't even have to think. Wouldn't it be nice if M$ Windows had
something as easy to use as that? You would think it would, especially as they
say "ease of use so often".
I can even install something over and over again as the version number rises
and not be worried that I have 20 different entries for it, and all but the
last don't work, and even the last leaves old crap all over my hard disk.
And if I don't want it anymore, instead of giving it the thumbs up with the
"+" key, I give it the thumbs down with the "-" key and off it goes.
>The single .exe option is very similar, except that typically you do not
>need to explicitly state "Install"; once you've double-clicked the EXE,
>it starts the install process automatically, again complete with default
>installation locations. Click "Next" a few times, it's done, and it has
>cleaned up the temp dir after itself, too.
And this downloads itself automatically too?
Regards
Anthony
<snip>
--
=========================================
| And when our worlds |
| They fall apart |
| When the walls come tumbling in |
| Though we may deserve it |
| It will be worth it - Depeche Mode |
=========================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: bypassing fsck
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 19:44:00 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > How can I set things up so that certain partitions are never checked
at
> > boot time? (They are not written to, and several are normally not
read
> > from either. I just don't want to have to mount them by hand in the
rare
> > but occuring case that I need something from them, so they are in
> > /etc/fstab.
>
> Make them 'noauto' and you have what you want.
>
> >
> > By the way, for those partitions that I want checked, can I arrange
fsck
> > to run at shutdown time instead of boot time?
>
> When you shutdown, and filesystems are unmounted, the superblock is
> marked that his was done 'cleanly'. At start up time, when fsck
> see's that the filesystem's were unmounted cleanly, the path
> through 'fsck' is very quick. If you have problems at start up
> time, you indicate that the close down was not clean - which
> means 'fsck' run at that time - might not have a chance to run.
I'm surprised how many people here assume that the problem of fsck
holding everything up for minutes has something to do with unclean
unmounting. The problem is of course that every n-th time I boot, fsck
decides to check anyway ("maximal mount count reached, check forced"),
which I want to disable.
I believe the best solution is to always shutdown with the -f option,
and issue the command "shutdown" (without -f) manually every couple of
months.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Kilian)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Re: Help! I screwed up fstab kernel panics
Date: 9 Sep 1999 17:59:05 GMT
John Doe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> If rescue disk is broken make another. Red Hat for instance
> has rescue image on cd and their ftp site.
Why use a recue disk? Just type
linux root=xxx single
at the lilo prompt, with `xxx' replaced by the new (shifted up) root partition
and `linux' replaced by the boot image name lilo normally uses (if this
differs from `linux'). Unfortunately, I don't know wether you can say
`root=/dev/sda7'. If not, you have to use major/minor notation, i.e. `08:07'
(or whatever device your root partition is located on).
In single user mode, it should be possible to edit /etc/fstab.
Kili
--
de: Signaturen erzeugen Krebs.
en: Signatures cause cancer.
Please send other translations.
------------------------------
From: Graffiti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Shutdown Problem
Date: 9 Sep 1999 10:20:26 -0700
In article <7r6f6h$ohh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Victor Wagner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[snip]
>Try mount /tmp with noexec option. (seems sensible security precaution,
>isn't it?) and see what breaks...
Unfortunately, it's usually not executable files that's copied there.
Such things as temporary data files and the like (lynx, as).
The main problem isn't the usage of /tmp so much as *how* it's being
used. People don't use tmpnam(), and don't change the file permission
from the umask. So depending on your umask, world-readable files
may be created in your home directory. And if the attacker is lucky
enough, he may be able to make you overwrite your ~/.profile have you
execute arbitrary commands the next time you log in.
>orainst breaks, but there is no problem - you don't install Oracle every
>day, so you may remount /tmp just for installing Oracle.
I can run it out of /root, ~username, etc.
>But mc breaks - it executes external viewers from .mc/ext by creating
>and running scripts in /tmp. It is much worse.
Considering I don't run mc, that's not much of a problem for me. :-)
>So, never never run mc as root if there are another users on machine.
Rather, never run anything as root that doesn't need to be. You'll never
know where an actively exploited bug is hiding...
-- DN
------------------------------
From: Peter Bishop <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.kde,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: One must-have program for a newbie
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:10:15 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Ron Stodden wrote:
>
> Rob wrote:
>
> > I have problems with tar. It doesn't get executables
> > that are currently running.
>
> There is NO backup software, anywhere, that will properly back up a
> partition containing a running operating system. If you want a good
> backup, the subject partition must be dormant. Yes, for Linux this
> implies you must have another Linux installation in another partition
> which can be quite small from which you run tar, and which itself never
> gets backed up (problems=reinstall).
>
I believe one of the commercial Unix suppliers (SGI?) has a file
system called XFS that *does* allow backups while running.
The basic idea is to request a "checkpoint". This does not
take a complete image of all files,
but merely notes all the files that existed
at checkpoint time. Newer files can be created with the same name
but are kept distinct from the "checkpoint" version.
All the running software uses the newest version. The backup
system only copies the checkpointed files. Once a checkpoint is
complete only the newest version of each file is kept.
This is neat. It allows continuous operation during backups,
and does not need much extra disc storage.
I believe XFS might be going Open Source (is this something
Linux might be interested in? - certainly handy for mission
critical systems)
--
Peter Bishop, Adelard, 3 Coborn Rd, London E3 2DA, England
Tel : +44-181-983-0219 Fax: +44-181-983-1845
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.adelard.co.uk/
------------------------------
From: "Kermit" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Netscape crushes with Java Apletts
Crossposted-To: fido.ger.linux,ger.pc.linux,linux.misc,linux.redhat
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 09 Sep 1999 17:21:59 GMT
Hi You!
I have a problem with netscape under Red Hat 6.0 with Gnome Desktop.
Anytime I open a web site with Java Apletts like buttons or so, Netscape
crushes without a warning. I see the message: starting Java at the ground
of the netscape window, and then it crushes ;o( I've enabled Java in the
netscape properties.
I wanna know if this is a netscpae bug, or have I to configure something in
Linux.
I hope you can help me with my prob.
Thx Andy
PS: please no RTFM messages, I've allready read it....
------------------------------
From: paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Abit BP6 with Linux, Power switch issues
Date: 09 Sep 1999 14:54:19 -0400
I have a Abit BP6 dual processor motherboard running Linux as a
server. It runs very well and I'm happy with it.
Occasionally I lose power though. On these occasions the power
normally comes right back within a few minutes. The problem is that
even though the power is back the machine does not come back on due to
the stateless power switch on ATX machines.
How are people dealing with this? I know people will tell me to get a
UPS which I will probably do, but that does not solve the fundamental
problem.
Does the Abit BP6 have a jumper to automatically power up when power
is attached? CAn i just shunr the the power jumper that the power is
attached to?
Thanks,
paul
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 19:07:45 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 9 Sep 1999 09:26:53 GMT...
..and Donal K. Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:51:30 +0200, Matthias Warkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Around the corner lives a hacker with a terminal
> >> And on his Web page is a GIF of RMS
> >> He likes to keep his Sun workstation clean
> >> It's a clean machine...
> >
> > To be a clean machine, shouldn't that be a PNG of RMS? :-)
>
> Doesn't scan. Getting the rhythm right is *crucial* with parodies of
> lyrics!
Of course it scans. "PNG" is pronounced "ping". That's in the RFC for
all I know.
mawa
--
Q: How do you get holy water?
A: Boil the hell out of it.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: How to install sound card with Linux Mandrake
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 20:38:46 GMT
I have installed Linux Mandrake version 5.2
I want to install sound support.
How do I do that?
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: aydincem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: rxvt scrolling
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 22:05:13 +0200
hi,
my question is about the rxvt x11 term emulator and its scrolling
function.
is there any possibility that i can set the scrolling to the keys
shift-up or shift-pgup like in kvt,xterm... ? the option -sk doesn't
works, is it this? (do i have to recompile again :(.
if i have to, how do i compile with two options ?
./configure -enable-sk -enable-pixmap <-- like this?
ok,
thanks a lot for any re
cu
cem aydin
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Installing Modem with Linux Mandrake 5.2
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 20:42:36 GMT
I want to install my Newcom modem on Linux.
Can I do that?
I think it is a winmodem.
Please let me know.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: Bob Hauck <b o b h @ w a s a t c h . c o m>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: bypassing fsck
Date: 09 Sep 1999 15:42:33 -0600
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> I'm surprised how many people here assume that the problem of fsck
> holding everything up for minutes has something to do with unclean
> unmounting. The problem is of course that every n-th time I boot, fsck
> decides to check anyway ("maximal mount count reached, check forced"),
> which I want to disable.
You can change the maximal mount count with tune2fs. If you have
multiple disks/partitions, it might be helpful to set the count on each
to a different prime number so you never have to wait through a full
check.
Or, if you're brave, set it to something huge like 8192.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Wasatch Communications Group
-| http://www.wasatch.com/~bobh
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: Thu, 09 Sep 1999 21:14:25 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <7r40rs$6pg$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > K. Bjarnason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > -- snip --
> >
> > > Most folks want . . . to be able to install, run, and if necessary
> > > uninstall their tools - word processors, spreadsheets, whatver -
> > > without *having* to know how the system works.
> >
> > Sort of like a car owner wanting to install a fuel injection system
> > or headers on his car without having to know how a car works?
>
> No, like a car owner wanting to *drive* his car without knowing how
> the engine works.
No. *Driving* a car is simply *using* it. *Installing* software is
*not* using a computer, it's changing the computer's (potential)
functionality. Just like adding a fuel injector to a car changes certain
aspects of its functionality (by increasing its power/performance).
-- snip --
> By your analogy, nobody should be able to drive a car unless they can
> rebuild the engine.
Wrong again. Anyone can and should be able to *use* a computer without
knowing how it works. A service station gas pump is an example, as is an
ATM or a video game.
Hell, these days that includes your damned *refrigerator* for cryin' out
loud.
A desktop PC also qualifies, provided that the user is not expected to
(nay, is *forbidden* from) installing software on it. Part of the Great
MS-Illusion is the idea that any random jerk should be able to install
software on his or her machine, ***without knowing jack sh*t about
computers.***
Now, if you want to *race* a car, or change its performance for any
other reason, you'd better know about cars. It's axiomatic in the case
of cars, isn't it? But people get real stupid when discussing the
corresponding issues with regards to computers. General-purpose desktop
computers are orders of magnitude more complex and sophisticated than
cars, yet people think that *less* knowledge or intelligence should be
necessary in the case of computers.
Stupid.
My anaolgy is sound, your shallow understanding of English
notwithstanding.
Curtis
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cameron L. Spitzer)
Subject: Re: LILO scrambled after power down
Date: 9 Sep 1999 22:23:23 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Stacey Hill wrote:
>A power outage in our area turn my computer off and on again.
If you shut Linux off without unmounting the file systems,
the file system checker will run when you start it up.
In rare cases, it may be possible that the file system checker would
decide something was wrong with a file that LILO uses,
and move or remove it.
>..now LILO is
>acting strangely.
>I have two hard drives, the boot drive has windows on it and the second
>drive has Linux.
>
>LILO used to give a prompt and i could type in "dos" and windows would come
>up.
>
>Now it says only linux and rescue are available.
>
>Any suggestions as to what has happened?
The other thing that could have happened is the information in the
motherboard BIOS was damaged. Run the BIOS and see if the first drive looks
the same as before.
>What can be done to prevent it from happening again?
Get a UPS. Or make sure you have boot floppies for both operating
systems.
I got a UPS about a year ago. It detects a power fluctuation every
few days. I guess my power supply used to ride through most of those.
Cameron
------------------------------
From: Bob Hauck <b o b h @ w a s a t c h . c o m>
Subject: Re: How to protect Telnet users?
Date: 09 Sep 1999 15:58:34 -0600
"HPK" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> How can I protect a dir so Telnet users cannot access that dir? (using
> the chmod command) ..But, all files in the directory must me
> accessable through the web... Is this possible?
Assuming your web server runs as user "www" and the files are in
/home/httpd/html:
cd /home/httpd
chown -R www.root html
find html -type d -exec chmod ug=rx,o-rwx {} \;
find html -type f -exec chmod ug=r,o-rwx {} \;
Now the files are owned by the "www" user, group "root", readable only
by that user and group, and not writable by anyone but root. There are
lots of other ways to do this depending on who/what else needs to read
and write the files.
--
-| Bob Hauck
-| Wasatch Communications Group
-| http://www.wasatch.com/~bobh
------------------------------
From: Alvaro Garriga <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Creating and script file
Date: 09 Sep 1999 15:11:34 PDT
Hi
Can someone point me to where I can find how to create an script file or C file
to do back ups at certain date/time.
Thanks so much in Advance
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Darren Winsper)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: General Rant from a Linux Newbie
Date: 9 Sep 1999 19:08:52 GMT
On Wed, 8 Sep 1999 23:00:49 -0700, K. Bjarnason
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No, like a car owner wanting to *drive* his car without knowing how the
> engine works. Why should he? He's not (necessarily) a mechanic. He
> buys a car as a tool for driving. He buys a computer - which includes
> the applications and OS - as a tool, to do work.
Funny you should mention that. In most places, you have to get a
driving license. This usually means lessons and a test.
> By your analogy, nobody should be able to drive a car unless they can
> rebuild the engine.
The car analogy is flawed, simply because you can't drive a car
without a license.
--
Darren Winsper - http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/darren.winsper
Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org
Java leads to Javascript. Javascript leads to Shockwave. Shockwave leads
to . . . suffering.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
