Linux-Misc Digest #264, Volume #24 Tue, 25 Apr 00 12:13:15 EDT
Contents:
Re: filenames with spaces and wildcards (Siemel Naran)
pine and roadrunner ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: DVD-ROM drive and Linux (James Helferty)
Re: RPM problem (Peter Polman)
Re: Pages served from Apache show up in frames!? (Jan Schaumann)
Re: News server recommendation (Steve Rawlinson)
Re: Linux any good for company networks? (Robert Heller)
Re: starting with Linux (ronaldo)
IPCHAINS Question
Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation (Kevin Huber)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Siemel Naran)
Subject: Re: filenames with spaces and wildcards
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:06:14 GMT
On Sun, 23 Apr 2000 02:16:49 GMT, Christopher Browne
>Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Siemel Naran would say:
>>I disagree. Allowing spaces and wildcards and quotes in filenames is
>>good because it affords greater power of expression. At first, my idea
>>may sound nice but a little excessive, and most people wouldn't use it.
>>However, I counter that we've been trained to use filenames without
>>spaces for so long, and that's the real reason why we don't use them
>>and why the shell doesn't support them.
>
>I think you're not grasping why the shell doesn't support them...
>
>They're not unsupported due to some vacuum, but rather because
>the shells expect to be able to deal with filenames _as text_.
I don't understand you.
>export filelist='this_file that_file the_other_file'
>do_something_to_files $filelist
>>Consider my example again. I had something like this
>> set -- $inprefix*$suffix
>>This allows me to use $# to get the number of files, or $1 to access the
>>first file, or a for loop like "for file in $@". (By the way, "for file
>>in inprefix*$suffix" also runs into the same problems -- namely, what
>>happens with files containing spaces and other special characters.
>>
>>It seems that all the shells (sh, bash, bash2, tcsh, zsh) follow this
>>retarted rule. I propose that in bash2 or bash3, filenames will
>>automatically have quotes around them. Hence if you have these two
>>files "a .t" and "a2.t", then
>> set -- *
>> echo $1 should print a .t
>> echo $2 should print a2.t
>>The set line is equivalent to
>> set -- "a .t" "a2.t"
>>
>>Do you think that my proposed rule will cause any problems? Will any
>>old code become broken? I think the answer is no, but maybe I just
>>haven't thought hard enough.
>
>The "rule" is not "retarded;" it effectively represents the difference
>between strong typing and weak typing.
>
>The UNIX shells use a _weak_ typing of values. The only difference
>between a scalar and a list/vector is the insertion of spaces between
>values.
I don't understand your argument of strong/weak typing.
>What you are proposing is to move to a form of strong typing, where you
>have to put explicit delimiters around each filename.
No, users don't need to put quotes around each file. In particular, if
the file has no special chars in it, they can forget about quotes
altogether. For example:
files=file1 file2 file3
With quotes, one could have very well said
files="file1" "file2" "file3"
The result of "set -- $files ; echo $#" will be 3.
It's like how you type these
vi file
vi "file"
vi "just one file"
In all three cases, you are editing one file.
However, if you use the shell's wildcard facility to expand filenames,
there will be automatic quotes. Hence we could say
files=file*
and if we have 3 files "file1" "file2" "file3", the above line is
equivalent to
files="file1" "file2" "file3"
If we have 3 files "file one" "file two" "file three", the above line
is equivalent to,
files="file one" "file two" "file three"
In both cases, "set -- $files ; echo $#" will yield 3.
>I think I need to beg the question:
>
>How will you make filenames "automatically" have quotes around them?
Think about it. How does the shell expand the wildcard when we say
something like "file*"? It steps through each file in the directory
and checks to see if the filename starts with "file". Clearly then
it knows how many files match the criterion. Unfortunately, it then
concatenates the filenames without regard to spaces, so we lose
information about the number of filenames.
If we write the current bash in C++, we have this:
std::string result;
DirectoryIter iter=directory.begin();
const DirectoryIter end=directory.end();
while (iter!=end) {
const std::string& name=iter->name();
if (match(name)) { result+=name; result+=' '; } // line6
++iter;
}
In my new rule, the rewrite is in line6
if (find(name)) { result+='"'; result+=name; result+="\" "; } // line6
Now of course, the above doesn't handle filenames with double quotes.
So we'll have to deal with that somehow. The easiest way is to change
the type of result from std::string to std::vector<std::string>.
And the shell will deal array variables only. Yes, coming to think of
it, this is a really big change.
>LOTS of instances exist where filenames are constructed on the fly,
>and only at an instant actually become _filenames._ Until they are
>actually _used_ as filenames, they are merely scraps of text, appended
>together.
When I say "set -- *.dat" I expect $# to be the number of files.
Sometimes, I write little scripts to manipulate files. For example,
delete files that match certain criteria, rename several files at
once, and so on. My scripts work in the case where filenames have
no special characters. But some people have filenames with spaces
or quotes or wildcards. And this messes up the whole script.
My point is reasonable and sound. If we have this,
vi "just one file"
we edit just one file with that name. Now if we say
file="just one file"
vi $file
we should still edit just one file, yet we edit 3.
>What you are proposing is a strongly-typed scheme analagous to the
>Common Lisp notion of "namestrings." (See the HyperSpec.) There's
>nothing _wrong_ with that representation; the critical thing is that
>it _is_ a critical change in syntax.
Yes.
>The code:
> for i in 'this that other thing'; do
> perform_something_with $i
> done
>_will break_ when you change the representation of filenames.
Yes, good point. So we can't add that feature to bash or tcsh.
We'll have to make a psh or something like that (stands for
perfect shell).
>The code:
>file1="this"
>file2="that"
>file3='other thing'
>for j in '$file1 $file2 $file3'; do
> do_something_with $j
>done
>
>isn't going to work properly if the quoting system changes.
Good point.
>Again, your _idea_ isn't stupid; what _would be_ is to try to
>push that change into zsh/ksh/bash/csh where it would change the
>syntax to the breaking point.
Yes.
==============
siemel b naran
==============
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: pine and roadrunner
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:11:03 GMT
I am setting up pine (because I am used to it and not interested
in X*) and I am running into an issue with the From: field it
creates. Pine insists on using the local linux box's username in
the From: field and I need it to use the RR name since, otherwise,
the address it shows recipients is altogether incorrect.
I am using roadrunner as the isp and my username for roadrunner
differs from the username (LOGNAME, &c) on my local linux box. I
really don't want to have to change my local username to match
that of RR's arbitrarily created username and I would like to know
how to force pine to use the correct name since I cannot seem to
find a Reply-To: entry for pine.
I have tried changing the bash LOGNAME to the RR username to no
avail and I cannot find any docs or how-to files that answer my
question. I feel there must be a way to do this but I have
exhausted my meager resources and hope another might have the
answer or least a pointer to same.
Incidentally, I have noticed that tin shows much the same thing in
its headers although it does allow setting of the From: field;
which I regard as sufficient for the time being.
Help is appreciated and thanks in advance.
--
KDSmith
Austin TX USA
<expunge .takeoutxtra to email>
------------------------------
From: James Helferty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: DVD-ROM drive and Linux
Date: 24 Apr 2000 23:00:10 GMT
Sandhitsu R Das wrote:
>
> Which DVD-ROMS drives can read CDROM and CD-R without any trouble under
> Linux ?
As far as I know, any IDE DVD-ROM drive should adhere to the spec, and
read CD-Rs and regular CD-ROMs correctly under linux.
If it isn't reading your CDs, perhaps it's a filesystem problem..
James
--
http://chat.carleton.ca/~jhelfert
------------------------------
From: Peter Polman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM problem
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 16:19:42 -0700
Beno�t Smith wrote:
> Dave Brown wrote:
> >
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Beno�t Smith wrote:
> > >I recently tried to install some RPM packages, but I only received the
> > >irritating "failed dependancies" message followed by a list of
> > >supposedly missing libraries. Then I was surprised by seeing that most
> > >of the concerned libraries ARE present in my system (in the directories:
> > >/lib, /usr/lib, /usr/X11R6/lib) !!!
> > >Could someone give me an explanation for this ? I am using the Slackware
> > >7.0. distro.
> >
> > RPM only knows what's in the rpm database, not what's really installed.
> > Since Slackware 7.0 doesn't use rpm for initial installation, there is
> > no database for rpm to reference. (Which makes me wonder what good
> > using rpm does on a "non-rpm" system...)
> >
> > Using "rpm -i --nodeps" will cause the software to be dumped out of
> > the package onto the system, but no guarantees that anything will
> > work. Dependent components may be on the system, but not where the
> > packaged software expects them. And components of the packaged
> > software may be installed in places where the "non-rpm" system
> > can't find them.
> >
> > I've usually used "rpm2tgz" to get the components into a tarball so that
> > I can see what's going to be put where.
> >
> > --
> > Dave Brown Austin, TX
>
> Thanks for all answers - especially this above. It's really too bad, I
> tried the "--nodeps": not only the app didn't work, but I couldn' remove
> it, because it was "not installed" !!! Now I have only to look for
> "rpm2tgz"...
> --
>
> Beno�t Smith
> Just A Rhyme Without A Reason
If you installed it with rpm you should be able to uninstall with rpm. It won't
matter that you used nodeps or force. Just make sure you use the proper format.
If you installed a package "foo-1.2-3.rpm" you would use "rpm -e foo-1.2.3".
Notice the ".rpm" is not included when you remove the package.
It's probably better to tarred and gzipped files when you can, if that's what
your system is built around. Make's things a little neater.
------------------------------
From: Jan Schaumann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pages served from Apache show up in frames!?
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 19:23:31 -0400
darkshade wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> This one may be really simple. I must be overlooking something.
>
> My setup: Linux Mandrake 7.0 with the default Apache setup.
>
> My server is http://www.darkshade.org
>
> The problem:
>
> I have a site setup @ http://www.darkshade.org/saiyancity
> Now, if I load the index page and then click on a link that goes to, say a
> file called sounds.html the address in the web browser stays
> showing "www.darkshade.org/saiyancity" INSTEAD
> of "www.darkshade.org/saiyancity/sounds.html"
>
> If I view the source from the web browser, it shows a source from a frames
> page. I have created a whole new directory and placed a test index.html
> file there and still have the same problem.
>
> I am not sure where this frames source is coming from?! I have scoured
> the httpd.conf and double-checked permissions, html source, etc to no
> avail.
No surprise, your index.html file contains a frameset. Didn't you see
that when checking the source? It's set to 100%!
Also, disabling the right-click in order to "secure your code" is a
stupid attempt. You can NOT hide your html-code. So attached please find
the code to your index2.html-page.
-Jan
--
Jan Schaumann
http://jschauma-0.dsl.speakeasy.net
Code he was trying to hide:
<script language="JavaScript"><!--
// No rightclick script v.2.5
// (c) 1998 barts1000
// [EMAIL PROTECTED]
// Don't delete this header!
var message="Sorry"; // Message for the alert box
// Don't edit below!
function click(e) {
if (document.all) {
if (event.button == 2) {
alert(message);
return false;
}
}
if (document.layers) {
if (e.which == 3) {
alert(message);
return false;
}
}
}
if (document.layers) {
document.captureEvents(Event.MOUSEDOWN);
}
document.onmousedown=click;
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// made by: - http.com
var mymessage = "DON'T STEAL!!";
function rtclickcheck(keyp){
if (navigator.appName == "Netscape" && keyp.which == 3) {
alert(mymessage);
return false;
}
if (navigator.appVersion.indexOf("MSIE") != -1 && event.button == 2) {
alert(mymessage);
return false;
}
}
document.onmousedown = rtclickcheck
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Rawlinson)
Crossposted-To: news.software.nn,news.software.nntp
Subject: Re: News server recommendation
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:29:36 GMT
> > Twister, a commercial product by bCandid software <www.bcandid.com> does
> > this,
> > all though I'm not certain about the LDAP piece.
>
> Our authentication API
I think calling it an API is slightly misleading. You can specify an
external program which will get data on stdin and its responses to
stdout determine whether an authentiction attempt succeeded. This
program can use whatever authentication mechanism you like.
> Our Linux port is still beta, but our Solaris (Sparc and x86) run great.
> The linux port may work for you depending on the amount of load you intend
> to put on the machine. We are still fighting scaling issues that relate to
> threading under Linux.
The Linux and FreeBSD ports were not usable last time we looked. The
Solaris product is good. Compared with INN it is much less hassle to run.
However, Twister is ridiculously overpriced.
Bcandid's support is variable to say the least. There are several people
at Bcandid who really know what they are talking about (mentioning no
Robs) and some who have no apparent interest.
18 months ago I would have recommended Typhoon/Cyclone without hesitation.
If I were starting from scratch now I think I would probably go with inn
or diablo especially if budget was a factor.
steve
--
Steve Rawlinson
Claranet Ltd
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Robert Heller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux any good for company networks?
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:31:53 GMT
Richard Phillips <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
In a message on Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:36:29 +0100, wrote :
RP> Hello,
RP> I'm wondering if Linux is capable in the area of company LANs? At work
RP> we have loads of PCs running Win95/98 and Novell software ties the whole
RP> thing into a network. Is Linux a viable alternative at present?
RP> There is little chance of this happening, I'm just curious out of
RP> academic interest!
RP> Regards,
RP> Richard.
Linux is fully capable of replacing an NT File server (via Samba), a
Novell server (via MARS) or a MacOS file server (via Netatalk), it also
speaks NFS. Actually, you can do all of this at the same time, if you
want.
--
\/
Robert Heller ||InterNet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://vis-www.cs.umass.edu/~heller || [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.deepsoft.com /\FidoNet: 1:321/153
------------------------------
From: ronaldo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: starting with Linux
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:30:06 GMT
Most flavours (if you buy the box sets) come with installation guides.
However, I found by far the best book is O'Reilly's 'Running Linux'. No
competition, and I've tried most of them.
Red Hat do qualifications, most notably the Red Hat Certified Engineer.
There's also ones geared more towards programmers, like the device driver
one. Red Hat ones are the ones to have, if you consider Linux
qualifications to be actually worthwhile.
Leejay Wu wrote:
>
>
> Excerpts from netnews.comp.os.linux.misc: 24-Apr-100 starting with Linux
> by "Albretch"@yahoo.com
> > I have decided to start with Linux, I have been programming for a while
> > though.
> >
> > I would like to buy a good book that:
> >
> > 1._ Would clearly walk me through the installation hassle,
>
> Most distributions provide electronic forms of manuals (for free
> download, and on CDs). If you buy an official, boxed distribution,
> you also tend to get a hard-copy manual. SuSE's manual is rather
> largish, for instance.
>
> If instead you buy simply a CD produced by a 3rd party like
> CheapBytes, however, don't expect a manual or vendor support.
>
> In addition, there are LDP (Linux Documentation Project) guides
> that may be of use -- http://www.linuxdoc.org. These describe
> installation and various bits of sysadmining and using...
>
> I'll leave it to others toss in their favorite recommendations for
> nutshell guides, etc.
>
> > 2._ preferably containing the software,
>
> Some do. IIRC, Red Hat and Caldera are fairly common. In particular,
> it comes with books like "Red Hat Unleashed". However, these versions
> may be rather dated... which might be an issue if security issues were
> discovered since then and you neglect to obtain the relevant patches.
>
> > 3._ and would walk me then beyond the basics.
>
> Consider the LDP guides first. They're free, except for your time,
> bandwidth and paper (if you choose to print them).
>
> > Are there "standard" LINUX certifications out there?
>
> Red Hat may be trying; I really haven't been following this area.
>
> > Any recomendations?
>
> The LDP guides are probably a good way to start. And the HOWTOs (same
> site), which you'll likely need to refer to quite a lot, at least
> early on. The "Hardware Compatability HOWTO" and other hardware-
> related ones (XFree86, Sound, CD Writing, Ethernet, PPP (well, ok.
> So it's PPP, *all* modem usage. Eh.)) can save you some grief as
> well, since it'd be a shame to jump in and, many hours later, realize
> that your hardware isn't supported.
> --
> | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | the silly student |
> |--------------------------| he writes really bad haiku |
> | #include <stddiscl.h> | readers all go mad |
>
>
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: IPCHAINS Question
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:30:07 GMT
I'm a newbie. I am confused and need help on IPCHAINS. Are these the only
rules I need to have for my configuration?
Your help will be greatly appreciated.
192.168.1.0/24
|
| ------------
| eth0 | |ppp0
|<------------>| LINUX |<----------->
| 192.168.1.1| PC |10.10.40.202
| | | (DHCP)
| ------------
ipchains -P forward DENY
ipchains -P forward -i ppp0 -j MASQ -s 192.168.1.0/24 -d 0.0.0.0/0
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How Microsoft inhibits competition & innovation
From: Kevin Huber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 24 Apr 2000 18:39:05 -0500
"Robert" == Robert Wiegand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Robert> Microsoft stopped the per machine licensing because of threats from
Robert> the government.
Yes I know. I was not seriously engaged in a debate. Though the last
two paragraphs are honest opinions:
"Free software is good. I like it. I use it. It's successful.
Without government invention.
Maybe there is some merit to having the government do something about
MS, but I suspect the government meddling with stuff would be too
little and too late or make the problem worse.
"
-Kevin
------------------------------
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