Linux-Misc Digest #643, Volume #24 Mon, 29 May 00 18:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: democracy? ("Andrew N. McGuire ")
RedHat 6.2 ISO Image (Shimon)
GNOME newsgroups? (MH)
Re: RedHat 6.2 ISO Image (Jan Johansson)
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? (lop@k)
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? (poru@kl)
Re: Intellimouse and Red Hat 6.2 Problem ("JC Debosschere")
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? (lop@l)
Re: Mounting CD-ROM (Ruediger Otte)
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: glibc, libc5, libc6 ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: UPS for Linux recommendation (John Thompson)
Re: What is Enlightenment? ("Andrew N. McGuire ")
Re: Applixware mailing list? Is it still around? (Geoffrey S. Zub)
Re: no sound from audio CDs in SuSE6.4 (Dances With Crows)
Re: Patching the Kernel? (Dances With Crows)
Re: LILO won't boot after update to 2.2.14: "LIWrong loader: giving up."
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: editor for Linux and IDE (FEJF)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
From: "Andrew N. McGuire " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 15:11:08 -0500
On Mon, 29 May 2000, Mark Wilden wrote:
+ "Andrew N. McGuire" wrote:
+ >
+ > Well, for example you have the majority who believe that as of
+ > January 1st, we started a new millenium. Then you have those
+ > of us who are smart enough to realize that there was no year 0.
+
+ January 1st did start a new millenium. It just didn't happen to be the
+ third one after the purported birth of Jesus. :)
Clever. :-) I guess every year really starts a new millennium,
although this does not directly pertain to the millennium we were
discussing.
+ Seriously, all this means is that the majority of people think the
+ rollover to 2000 is more interesting and significant to them than the
+ arithmetic facts. Does it really matter? To them (and to me), the real
+ 'idiot' is someone who thinks this is important.
Well, to me the real idiot is one who does not take the time to think
about the truth of the matter, and then refuses to admit when he is
blatently incorrect.
millennium
1.A span of one thousand years.
2.A thousand-year period of holiness mentioned in Revelation 20,
during which Jesus and his faithful followers are to rule on earth.
3.A hoped-for period of joy, serenity, prosperity, and justice.
4.A thousandth anniversary.
*By definition*
+ > You have the majority that believes that Windows is the best OS
+ > ever to rear its head
+
+ The majority thinks no such thing. They have no experience with any
+ other OS, nor do they want any (the majority is quite intelligent in not
+ wanting to recompile a kernel simply so that Doom makes sounds on their
+ machine). So to say that the majority believe Windows is the best is
+ rather...idiotic.
[ First of all, let me point out that you more than likely do not have
to recompile your kernel to make your sound card work. ]
Not so, chosen ignorance is not an excuse, to say that people think that
Windows is better becuase they do not want to try anything else just
points out their stupidity. If this were the case in all aspects of
life, we would not even have electricity for goodness sake. And to say
that the majority of people believe that Windows is best is not idiotic,
it is true, look at the usage percentage!!! Microsoft Windows runs 90%
of the computers on the planet... Are you saying that that many people
would use it even if there were something better? If so, then you
have made the majority of people out to be more idiotic than even I did.
Either way you slice it, the majority looks rather dumb. Why do you
have to tell so many people to RTFM? It is becuase people want to be
spoon-fed every little detail. Not all people, but the majority.
Above all an intelligent person keeps an open mind.
+ >... Then you have those who know better.
+ > You have the majority of Usenetters who reply to posts jeopardy
+ > style, then you have the good Usenauts who don't. etc, etc, etc...
+
+ Of course, there are people who are smarter than average, and I think
+ Usenetters in general fall into that category. But just because I
+ (err--we) are smarter than average doesn't mean the average is low. It
+ just means that we're quite smart. :)
Why the (err-we), are you directly insulting my intelligence?
I made no attempt to insult yours, but if this is your course
of argument, let me know now, so we can either agree to disagree,
or killfile each other ( I would rather not do that ).
Best Wishes,
anm
--
/*-------------------------------------------------------.
| Andrew N. McGuire |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
`-------------------------------------------------------*/
------------------------------
From: Shimon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: RedHat 6.2 ISO Image
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:10:50 +0300
hi,
i downloaded the redhat linux 6.2 ISO image from
ftp.linux.tucows.com, and burnt it onto a CD, but
i wanted to know if *I* made some strange mistake,
or someone else did.
the CD i now have has all file names in pure 8.3 format,
so all the manuals in the DOC directory are unusable.
the HTML links are to long file names, but my files are
both shortened to 8.3, and most have become duplicate
file names, and lost the .htm extension. all the duplicate
files got extensions like .001, .002, etc.
Can someone tell me what i might have done wrong?
thanks,
Shimon
------------------------------
From: MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: GNOME newsgroups?
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 13:10:38 -0700
Anyone know of any GNOME newsgroups? I found a German group, apparently
inactive, but that was it.
------------------------------
From: Jan Johansson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: RedHat 6.2 ISO Image
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:18:16 GMT
>Can someone tell me what i might have done wrong?
You must burn it in ISO9660 with RockRidge extensions.
You should have just downloaded the 'real' ISO.
------------------------------
From: lop@k
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Date: 29 May 2000 12:42:44 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
>How would a problem reported to the sane
>developers ever even make it into the kernel bug tracking database?
It does not idiot. A sane application bug is entered in the sane
bug tracking database.
This is no brain surgery (may be for you). The same way you decided
to send you email message to sane mailing list, you instead enter
the bug to the sane bug database.
>Are you
>saying that a problem reported to the cdrecord developer couldn't
>potentially be related to a bug in the Linux SCSI code?
If you worried about posting a bug to the wrong application and others
not finding about it, this is easy to solve. Think. Think.
------------------------------
From: poru@kl
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Date: 29 May 2000 12:32:30 -0700
In article <8gtrsf$fik$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Peter says...
>My point here is, I repeat, that linux is a success measured in terms
>of social impact, numbers of deployed systems, and economic influence.
In this case, then windows is 100's of times more success than Linux,
since it depolyed in millions more systems and used by millions
more people than Linux.
>then you had better first explain why it is a success without
>it.
The above shows your level of thinking is so shallow and you can't
see a little ahead.
Everything can be improved. Do not think in black and white terms
like a little kid. Think in terms of how a process can be improved.
Very successfull organizations in the world are improving and making
changes to their process everyday to try to become better and to
produce a better product. If they do not, they will eventually die.
Linux has managed to pull things togother so far in an adhoc fashion
with little engineering process involved becuase the kernel so far
was relatively a small program. It is only now that it starting
to become large enough that people need to start thinking about
these things.
A 500,000 lines C program is large, yet in relative sizes, it is small.
VMS is about 7 millions lines of code, NT is 30 millions, Solaris
is about 10 millions, OS390 go to be over 10 millions, etc..
As the linux kernel grow in size and becomes more
complex and more pepole start to use it and work on it, starting
to use better engineering process to manage the task becomes more
important.
>_My_ theory
.. stupid theory snipped..
------------------------------
From: "JC Debosschere" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.setup,linux.redhat.install,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: Intellimouse and Red Hat 6.2 Problem
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:49:45 GMT
Don't you have to make your mouse point to '/dev/psaux' in the X11 config
file ?
JC
Matt a �crit dans le message ...
>My ps/2 intellimouse's wheel used to work fine under Redhat 6.1. When I
did
>a upgrade to 6.2 it also worked fine. I've since wiped the drive clean and
>did a fresh install of 6.2. Now it doesn't work all the setting are the
>same. Any idea?
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: lop@l
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Date: 29 May 2000 12:55:21 -0700
In article <8gub3a$qur$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
says...
>As a result, a *lot* more coding gets done. Sometimes the resulting code
>is crap --- so what, scrap it, redo it from scratch, with what you have
>learned from the mistakes you made the first time around. You can do
>that four times, and *still* get the good version before the person who
>does 15/85.
>
One can eliminate many unneccessary code iterations by spending more
time in the analysis and design stage.
Imagine a civil engineer building a bridge, then finding out near the
end that one end is shorter than the other, then blowing it, and starting
again.
There is nothing wrong with re-writing the program again the second time,
I've done that many times. The first time one learn things they could
not have seen before. But still, carfull analysis and design at the
start will always product a much better product the first time.
Looking at the linux and open source software I see very little of
that, very little in terms of analysis and design documents for some
very complex programs. Even looking at the source code, very little
documentation. I mean design documentation. Every programmer keeps the
design (if there is one) in their head, becuase that way they feel
smarter.
For a small program this can be OK, for larger programs this will
eventually come back and bite you.
>Of course, such programming behaviour is completely impossible in a commercial
>environment, where you have deadlines to meet and the client wants progress
>reports all the time. You can't go to your client and say "Well, you know,
>the program version we demoed to you last month --- turned out we had
>made some fundamental mistakes at the start, so we are restarting from
>scratch". It just won't do. The client would think you wasted your time,
>and their money.
>The scary part is that quite often, the paying customer would be far
>better off if you *could* say that. I know of a project that has cost
>many millions of dollars already, and which will cost many millions more,
>be late, and never work quite reliably. That's because they made a
>fundamental mistake in the way they designed their database, right at
>the start. But you can't say that to a client after the client spent
>millions of dollars, so instead they continue putting band aids everywhere,
>and the project is limping along.
>
>The nice thing about linux (as well as university studies ;-) is that there
>is no shame in admitting you screwed up. Last year, I completely rewrote
>the program for my PhD thesis --- as a result of running into limitations
>of the original design. I am now starting to run into the limitations
>of the current implementation, so if I wanted to take this thing any further,
>I would probably look at what I learned, and rewrite again.
>The thing, however, is --- I could never have come up with the design for
>even the current implementation, let alone the next one, when I first started.
>It takes time, experience and experimentation to find out what one might
>*want* to do. And sometimes the new ideas on what one wants to do do not mesh
>with a design that predates them. Such is life. You try to avoid it, you
>try to design everything as generic and versatile as you can, but sometimes
>some later ideas cannot be accomodated in the design.
>
>Bernie
>--
>All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others
>George Orwell
>English novelist, 1903-50
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ruediger Otte)
Subject: Re: Mounting CD-ROM
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 02:05:52 +0200
In article Re: Mounting CD-ROM,
Beno�t Smith writes:
>>
>> Have You looked at the permissions on /dev/cdrom and /mnt/cdrom?
>>
> They were at 640. But changing them in any way didn't solve my issue,
> because the 'mount' command is reserved to root. How should I do so that
> the
> 'mount' command (that is in /bin) is available to a non-root user ?
>
Just Set '/bin/mount' (and '/bin/umount') to mode 4755 (SUID0).
That should work.
Ruediger
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Date: 29 May 2000 21:14:12 GMT
In comp.os.linux.misc poru@kl wrote:
: In article <8gtrsf$fik$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Peter says...
:
:>My point here is, I repeat, that linux is a success measured in terms
:>of social impact, numbers of deployed systems, and economic influence.
: In this case, then windows is 100's of times more success than Linux,
: since it depolyed in millions more systems and used by millions
: more people than Linux.
Oh, definitely, in absolute terms. That's unarguable. But you are not
taking into account the market they're aimed at (beer mats are more
successful than windows in your absolutist terms). In the terms I set
out, linux is a success, and a growing success. What's more, it's
social impact at least is growing to match windows.
:>then you had better first explain why it is a success without
:>it.
: The above shows your level of thinking is so shallow and you can't
: see a little ahead.
Eh? Who are you? OK, fellah, that does it. You seem to have some
strange mental problems, the most obvious of which is thinking that
you're being smart when you're not!
: Everything can be improved. Do not think in black and white terms
: like a little kid. Think in terms of how a process can be improved.
Tell that to evolution.
: Very successfull organizations in the world are improving and making
: changes to their process everyday to try to become better and to
: produce a better product. If they do not, they will eventually die.
Get rid of the precept that linux is an "organization". It is not. It
is closer to an organism.
: Linux has managed to pull things togother so far in an adhoc fashion
: with little engineering process involved becuase the kernel so far
: was relatively a small program. It is only now that it starting
That does it. I'm sorry. Calling the kernel a small program is pretty
crazy. You're a mad idiot.
: A 500,000 lines C program is large, yet in relative sizes, it is small.
: VMS is about 7 millions lines of code, NT is 30 millions, Solaris
: is about 10 millions, OS390 go to be over 10 millions, etc..
You are wildly off as to their sizes. Did you just make this up?
The kernel is about quarter of a million lines of code, as I count
it, by the way.
: As the linux kernel grow in size and becomes more
: complex and more pepole start to use it and work on it, starting
: to use better engineering process to manage the task becomes more
: important.
:>_My_ theory
: .. stupid theory snipped..
Say no more. For the benefit of readers, would you care to state what
the theory was, and why you think it stupid?
Whilst I have nothing against disturbed individuals in themselves, I do
have everything against people who cannot argue. Come back when you can
make a rational case that's examinable on its own merits.
Peter
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: glibc, libc5, libc6
Date: 29 May 2000 21:16:03 GMT
Eddy Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Can anyone explain the differences, or point to a useful URL?
No. They're just different. What's the problem? If you want to know how
glibc (aka libc6) came about, read the glibc faq.
Peter
------------------------------
From: John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: UPS for Linux recommendation
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 14:20:16 -0500
fred smith wrote:
> the version of the [Triplite] software that came with the UPSes (about a year ago)
> works on Linux, but has some installation problems that are not covered
> in the docs, so you have to beat your head on the wall for a while then
> contact their tech support who will give you the answers.
>
> OTOH I just downloaded their latest version (since I upgraded from RH 5.2
> to 6.2 the one I installed last year no longer worked) and it installs
> apparently cleanly. It came up and worked "out of the box", but I
> haven't yet rebooted the system (won't until I need to) to make sure it
> starts up properly at boot time.
>
> They've also released the PAPlus software as open source, but I found it
> less trouble to download the appropriate rpm than to build from source.
> YMMV.
I wasn't aware that their software was now available as open
source. Do they include a cable wiring diagram, or do you happen
to know how it is wired up?
--
-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
------------------------------
From: "Andrew N. McGuire " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What is Enlightenment?
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 16:34:58 -0500
On 29 May 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
+ I just upgraded from Red Hat 5.2 to 6.2 and am trying out Gnome.
+
+ It works with something called Enlightenment.
+
+ Could someone help me understand. What is Enlightenment?
It is what you seek!
[ ducking & running ]
Best Wishes,
anm
--
/*-------------------------------------------------------.
| Andrew N. McGuire |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
`-------------------------------------------------------*/
------------------------------
From: Geoffrey S. Zub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Applixware mailing list? Is it still around?
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:25:43 GMT
Try:
http://www.vistasource.com/services/support/maillist
Geoff
In article <3ec.39314dcd.9adb1@scgf>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Phillip Deackes) wrote:
> Does anyone know if the Applixware mailing list is still around? I can
> find no mention of it on the Applix, SmartBeak or VistaSource web
sites.
>
> Cheers.
>
> --
> Phillip Deackes
> Using Storm Linux 2000
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: no sound from audio CDs in SuSE6.4
Date: 29 May 2000 17:43:50 EDT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 29 May 2000 19:25:37 GMT, JC Vollmer
<<RuzY4.5063$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
>In comp.os.linux.misc JC Vollmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>: Hello.
>: I've just installed SuSE Linux 6.4 on my PentiumII/450.
>: I've noticed that when I try to play an audio CD with Kscd,
>: I can see the readout indicating that it is playing, but I
>: get no sound.
>: I have no difficulty playing .wav files, so I know that the
>: SoundBlaster16 is working. Still, I'd like to be able to play
>: audio CDs.
>
>: Is there something I've neglected to enable?
>
>I forgot to add that theres no cabling problem. Everything is fine if I
>boot into NT - except that I'm running NT, of course.
Open up a sound mixer application (kmix for KDE) and make sure the volume
for the CD device isn't extremely low or muted.
--
Matt G / Dances With Crows \###| You have me mixed up with more
There is no Darkness in Eternity \##| creative ways of being stupid?
But only Light too dim for us to see \#| Beer is a vegetable. WinNT
(Unless, of course, you're working with NT)\| is the study of cool. --MegaHAL
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: Patching the Kernel?
Date: 29 May 2000 17:48:07 EDT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 29 May 2000 14:59:50 -0400, Nelson and Satasha Williams
<<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> shouted forth into the ether:
>I'm kinda a Linux newbie, who has never done anything with the kernel.
>I just reinstalled my Redhat 5.2 (apollo), and I'd like to patch the my
>kernel with the patches at LINUXHQ. My question is, are kernel patches
>similar to OS/2 fixpacks? What I mean is, does a later patch contain
>the all previous fixes? For example, does patch 2.0.38 have everything
>2.0.30 has, plus additional fixes?
>I'd just like to know before I download 38 patches.
Nope. If you're still running 2.0.x, it would be a good idea to get the
latest source tarball in its entirety. The latest stable version is
2.2.15 at the moment. Download from
ftp://ftp.us.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.2/
If you want to upgrade by patching and you have kernel 2.0.30, you'd get
the patch2.0.31 -- patch2.0.38 files and apply them in succession. This
can be a pain and it won't work at all if the original kernel source tree
isn't the official kernel source tree. Almost all the major distros make
modifications to the official kernel source for various reasons, and this
causes patching with the official patches to fail miserably.
--
Matt G / Dances With Crows \###| You have me mixed up with more
There is no Darkness in Eternity \##| creative ways of being stupid?
But only Light too dim for us to see \#| Beer is a vegetable. WinNT
(Unless, of course, you're working with NT)\| is the study of cool. --MegaHAL
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.setup,alt.uu.comp.os.linux.questions,hannover.uni.comp.linux,de.comp.os.unix.linux.newusers,alt.os.linux.suse
Subject: Re: LILO won't boot after update to 2.2.14: "LIWrong loader: giving up."
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 21:54:07 GMT
Andrei Dumitrescu wrote:
>
> Hi there folks,
> maybe some of you could help me (please please please) with my problem
> here.
> I have a PC with Win NT and Linux. I'm using NT's boot manager to select
> what OS to boot. Last week I updated my linux distro (SuSE 6.2) to 2.2.14
> (SuSE 6.4), using the (semi)automatic update procedure from SuSE's setup
> tool. After completion of the process I tried to reboot from hdd, but
> after selecting Linux (as usual) from NT's boot manager, LILO wouldn't
> boot linux, saying
> LIWrong loader: giving up.
After you run LILO, you need to regenerate the bootsect.lnx file that
the NT loader uses to launch LILO.
Try this: dd if=/dev/hda5 of=bootsect.lnx bs=512 count=1
Then copy the resulting bootsect.lnx file to your NT boot partition.
Just remember, every time you run LILO, e.g., after compiling a new
kernel, you'll have to do this...
- Steve
------------------------------
From: FEJF <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: editor for Linux and IDE
Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 23:20:09 +0200
Davide Sanna - Tiscali S.p.A.
wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Hi everyone!
>
> is there an X-editor with syntax hilight and other
> features (like UltraEdit for windoze ?) available
> for Linux ? (free, GPL, OpenSource)...
what about jbuilder from borland/inprise ?
fejf
------------------------------
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