Linux-Misc Digest #365, Volume #25 Sun, 6 Aug 00 14:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Diald problem (Frank Hahn)
Re: LP Admin Question (Marc D Bumble)
ADSL with Suse 6.2 (Volker =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6ster?=)
Re: Modifying Redhat 6.2 (Frank Hale)
sending fax (Daniel Bechard)
sending Fax (Daniel Bechard)
Re: Adabas (John E Suche)
Re: Modem doesn't work (and it's not a WinModem) (Rob Clark)
Re: ADSL with Suse 6.2 (Hal Burgiss)
Re: Modem doesn't work (and it's not a WinModem) (David Rysdam)
Re: rsh and password (brian moore)
libtermcap.so (Andrew J. Perrin)
Re: Linux vs Windows ME (brian moore)
Re: Modifying Redhat 6.2 (Robert Jones)
Should I build up an athlon box or buy an Imac DV? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Modifying Redhat 6.2 (David Rysdam)
Re: Modifying Redhat 6.2 (Frank Hale)
Re: Operating systems for personal-computers? (The Cookie Monster)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Frank Hahn)
Subject: Re: Diald problem
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:10:01 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 6 Aug 2000 04:17:55 +0000 (UTC), David Efflandt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On Fri, 04 Aug 2000, Mark Hymers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>diald daemon however as everytime a local machine wanted to access any
>>internal network resource, diald tried to start up the connection. Is
>>there a way of only starting the connection when an external
>>connection is required. Finally, a better solution from my point of
>>view would be to have a windows 98 client program which allowed people
>>to turn the link on and off and view the status. Is this possible as
>>my family use Windows (they refuse to try Linux) and I am leaving soon
>>and want to leave the network set up properly.
>
>Probably DNS queries or SMB broadcasts are triggering it. You can set
>filters for things like SMB (netbios ports 137, 138, 139). For DNS either
>run your own caching nameserver, also set up with forward and reverse
>lookup zones for your LAN, or at least make sure that you have names
>for all local IP's in /etc/hosts (and possibly \windows\hosts, not
>hosts.sam).
>
There have been many filters posted int he past for diald to keep
MS Windows machines from bringing up the link with their many
lookups.
This can be done either with diald or with rules given to ipchains.
A search of http://www.deja.com should be able to find these.
For an MS Windows program that can control the diald program, go
search for a program called dialmon. I believe the home page
is:
http://www.quaking.demon.co.uk/dialmon.html
Until you get diald working, I would not waste time setting up the
dialmon program. There have been several How-Tos written on this.
Another place to look is past issues of the Linux Gazette. Try:
http://www.linuxgazette.com
--
Frank Hahn
Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to
see it tried on him personally.
-- A. Lincoln
------------------------------
Subject: Re: LP Admin Question
From: Marc D Bumble <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 06 Aug 2000 12:15:51 -0400
have you tried running printtool as root?
marc
>>>>> "David" == David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
David> I am new to Linux and need to find the name of the printer
David> on our SuSe 6.1 machine. I am adding the printer (as
David> remote) to an HP-UX box.
David> There are 3 files in /dev: lp0, lp1 & lp2. There is a
David> /var/spool/lp1 directory, but using "lp1" from the remote
David> host does not work. Neither does "/dev/lp1". A test print
David> from the remote host appears to be sent, but never gets to
David> the printer.
David> What is the Linux equivalent utility to lpstat or lpadmin?
David> Thanks in advance.
David> David.
David> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
--
------------------------------
From: Volker =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=F6ster?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: ADSL with Suse 6.2
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 18:19:45 +0200
Hi,
I wanted to run ADSL under Suse Linux 6.2, so I updated my Kernel from
version 2.2.10 to current version 2.2.16. The new kernel works quiet
smoothly, but I'm not sure if I also have do update my system libaries
to emulate a Suse 6.3 system (if I have to update my libaries which do I
have to update?). But in general: Is it possible to run T-DSL (the ADSL
version from German Telekom) with Suse 6.2?
After I ran the new kernel, I installed the pppoed-0.42-0 and tried to
initiate a connection with the T-Online server, but the log file
(/var/log/messages) just told me that Linux coudn't open the file
/dev/pppoex. What do I have to do to fix this problem?
Volker
PS: Antworten k�nnen auch in Deutsch erfolgen ;-)
------------------------------
From: Frank Hale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Modifying Redhat 6.2
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:24:35 GMT
David Rysdam wrote:
>
> Have you looked at the scripts that are in the redhat-release rpm?
> Maybe one of them fills the /etc/redhat-release file with data.
>
Yes, there are no scripts with it. The only thing in redhat-release
src.rpm is a spec file which contains the script which creates the
/etc/redhat-release file. But again there are only variables for redhat
version and release name. Here is the spec file (RedHat 6.2).
Summary: Red Hat Linux release file
Name: redhat-release
Version: %{release_version}
Release: 1
Copyright: GPL
Group: System Environment/Base
BuildArchitectures: noarch
Obsoletes: rawhide-release
BuildRoot: /var/tmp/redhat-release-root
%description
Red Hat Linux release file
%install
mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc
echo "Red Hat Linux release %{version} (%{release_name})" >
$RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/redhat-release
%clean
rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
%files
%attr(0644,root,root) /etc/redhat-release
Where are version and release_name defined?
thanks,
Frank
------------------------------
From: Daniel Bechard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: sending fax
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:30:58 GMT
How can I send fax with Open Linux 2.4
Thank you
------------------------------
From: Daniel Bechard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: sending Fax
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:34:01 GMT
How can I send fax with Open Linux 2.4
Thank you
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 12:38:31 -0400
From: John E Suche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Adabas
Daniel Bechard wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I have install Star Office 5.2 and during installation, it ask me to
> download from the internet "ADABAS"
> Where can I find this file adabas??
>
> Thank you
www.sun.com
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Modem doesn't work (and it's not a WinModem)
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob Clark)
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:37:11 GMT
In article <3ufj5.14550$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Kristofor Wiklund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> I've just installed Slackware 7.0 on my new computer. I have found
>that
>>>my modem does not respond under Linux, but it does under Windows. As I
>have
>Its a PnP ISA card and uses /dev/ttyS1 (COM2 under windows)
>>Did you use the Slackware setup program to point /dev/modem at your modem?
>Yes.
Be sure that you are using isapnptools to configure your modem.
(see the Modem-HOWTO at http://linuxdoc.org/HOWTO if this is news to you
:)
Okay, assuming you know about isapnptools, how does your isapnp.conf look?
e.g.:
# Card 2: (serial identifier 9e 97 59 8f 97 30 00 44 0e)
# Vendor Id CRD0030, Serial Number 2539229079, checksum 0x9E.
# Version 1.0, Vendor version 0.0
# ANSI string -->Cardinal 336 Internal<--
#
# Logical device id CRD0030
# Device support I/O range check register
# Device supports vendor reserved register @ 0x3e
#
# Edit the entries below to uncomment out the configuration required.
# Note that only the first value of any range is given, this may be
# changed if required
# Don't forget to uncomment the activate (ACT Y) when happy
(CONFIGURE CRD0030/2539229079 (LD 0
# Start dependent functions: priority acceptable
# Fixed IO base address 0x02e8
# Number of IO addresses required: 8
(IO 0 (SIZE 8) (BASE 0x02f8) (CHECK))
# IRQ 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11 or 15.
# High true, level sensitive interrupt
(INT 0 (IRQ 3 (MODE +L)))
# End dependent functions
(NAME "CRD0030/2539229079[0]{Cardinal 336 Internal}")
(ACT Y)
))
# End tag... Checksum 0x00 (OK)
# Returns all cards to the "Wait for Key" state
(WAITFORKEY)
----
Now,
'isapnp /etc/isapnp.conf'
-and then-
'setserial /dev/modem uart 16550A'
--
Rob Clark, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hal Burgiss)
Subject: Re: ADSL with Suse 6.2
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:45:46 GMT
On Sun, 06 Aug 2000 18:19:45 +0200, Volker K�ster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I wanted to run ADSL under Suse Linux 6.2, so I updated my Kernel from
>version 2.2.10 to current version 2.2.16. The new kernel works quiet
>smoothly, but I'm not sure if I also have do update my system libaries
>to emulate a Suse 6.3 system (if I have to update my libaries which do
>I have to update?). But in general: Is it possible to run T-DSL (the
>ADSL version from German Telekom) with Suse 6.2?
>
>After I ran the new kernel, I installed the pppoed-0.42-0 and tried to
>initiate a connection with the T-Online server, but the log file
>(/var/log/messages) just told me that Linux coudn't open the file
>/dev/pppoex. What do I have to do to fix this problem?
First, I can't really help you. But maybe you can help me. I am updating
the ADSL mini HOWTO (very out of date now), and am curious about T-DSL.
Is this ADSL, IDSL, or something different? Right now this HOWTO is very
US biased, and would very much like to include anything about DSL from
Europe or elsewhere, but I don't see it come up very often.
Have you tried the SuSE PPPoE page? Find a link to it here:
http://feenix.eyep.net/dsl/linux_dsl.html
If you are curious about the HOWTO, I have a partial draft here:
http://feenix.eyep.net/ldp/adsl
I haven't got too far into the PPPoE stuff yet. Also, my ISP connection
is not PPPoE, so I am not real up to speed on it. You might post on
comp.os.linux.networking if still having trouble.
--
Hal B
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Rysdam)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Modem doesn't work (and it's not a WinModem)
Date: 6 Aug 2000 15:49:38 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What doesn't the modem respond to? Have you tried using minicom?
On Sun, 06 Aug 2000, Kristofor Wiklund <long email snipped> wrote:
>>> I've just installed Slackware 7.0 on my new computer. I have found
>that
>>>my modem does not respond under Linux, but it does under Windows. As I
>have
>>>stated it is not a WinModem. It is 3Com 56K modem that I have used on my
>>>old computer. On my old computer the modem worked fine under Linux and
>>>Windows. Any ideas what the problem could be?
>>
>>No, we need some hints.
>>
>>ISA or PCI?
>>Jumpers or PnP?
>>/dev/ttyS? IRQ?
>
>Its a PnP ISA card and uses /dev/ttyS1 (COM2 under windows)
>
>>
>>Did you use the Slackware setup program to point /dev/modem at your modem?
>>
>
>Yes.
>
>
>
--
My public encryption key is available from www.keyserver.net
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Subject: Re: rsh and password
Date: 6 Aug 2000 16:55:45 GMT
On Sun, 06 Aug 2000 14:00:03 GMT,
David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Andrew N. McGuire " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> ' ^^ 2) run X applications on apostrophe with their display showing up on
> ' ^^ my terminal
> '
> ' export DISPLAY=host:0.0
> ' xterm
>
> This won't work so well with apostrophe at my ISP on the other side of
> a NATed firewall ;-). Firewalls on both ends in fact.
It won't work at all, anyway. Just let ssh pass the credentials and set
the DISPLAY for you.
(On the remote system it will be something like ':10' ... ssh will
tunnel connections back on the same port you used to login and map them
to the proper display.)
The above export will skip the encrypted tunnel and require you to pass
the Xauthority credentials to the remote machine somehow or do something
evil like xhost. That destroys the whole point of ssh.
> I think I've got the answer to that question though. Unfortunatly, I
> won't be able to test it until apostrophe has been relocated. It is
> not a major deal though. XEmacs has a -nw flag that allows it to run
> in my xterm. I still use the mouse a bit though :-(.
Depending on the speed of your connection, you can run plain old X stuff
as well. (It sorta sucks on a modem, but then what would you expect?
:))
--
Brian Moore | Of course vi is God's editor.
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | If He used Emacs, He'd still be waiting
Usenet Vandal | for it to load on the seventh day.
Netscum, Bane of Elves.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew J. Perrin)
Subject: libtermcap.so
Date: 06 Aug 2000 12:57:26 -0500
A software package I'm installing crashes saying it can't find the
file libtermcap.so. Any ideas where it might be located?
Thanks.
Andrew Perrin
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (brian moore)
Subject: Re: Linux vs Windows ME
Date: 6 Aug 2000 17:19:57 GMT
On Sun, 06 Aug 2000 13:09:57 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> As you all know, the future of Linux and Windows ME
> are dependent on their stability in the marketplace.
No, I don't.
> In a consumer and capitalistic society, products dissappear
> if there is no demand, or there is a better product that can
> be gotten and is widely available.
>
> Now Linux is based on a free system. There are currently
> 3 main free systems in capitalistic societies... namely
bzzt... wrong. Linux is free like speech is free. It may or may not be
free like a free lunch is free (and even then TANSTAAFL).
--
Brian Moore | Of course vi is God's editor.
Sysadmin, C/Perl Hacker | If He used Emacs, He'd still be waiting
Usenet Vandal | for it to load on the seventh day.
Netscum, Bane of Elves.
------------------------------
From: Robert Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Modifying Redhat 6.2
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 12:24:36 -0500
David Rysdam wrote:
> Have you looked at the scripts that are in the redhat-release rpm?
> Maybe one of them fills the /etc/redhat-release file with data.
I'm running RH 6.0 (Hedwig). I can't imagine that 6.2 would be a great deal
different.
Anyhow, if I mount the source CD and
$rpm -Uvh /mnt/cdrom/SRPMS/redhat-release-6.0-1.src.rpm I wind up with the
file /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/redhat-release.spec which reads like this:
==========
Summary: Red Hat Linux release file
Name: redhat-release
Version: 6.0
Release: 1
Copyright: GPL
Group: System Environment/Base
BuildArchitectures: noarch
Obsoletes: rawhide-release
BuildRoot: /var/tmp/redhat-release-root
%description
Red Hat Linux release file
%install
mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc
echo "Red Hat Linux release %{version} (Hedwig)" >
$RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/redhat-release
%clean
rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
%files
%attr(0644,root,root) /etc/redhat-release
============
Could it be that this is what he's looking for?
>
>
> On Sun, 06 Aug 2000 14:40:00 GMT, Frank Hale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> initscripts
> >>
> >> The destination file is /etc/rc.d/rc.local. That's what writes
> >> /etc/issue and /etc/issue.net on boot.
> >
> >You've misread my question, etc/rc.d/rc.local doesn't define release
> >name Zoot or version number 6.2. I am looking for the src.rpm which
> >contains the information for release name and relase version for RedHat
> >6.2 it is:
> >
> >Release name = Zoot
> >Release version = 6.2
> >
> >This information is then used in redhat-release file in
> >/etc/redhat-release but the src.rpm for redhat-release only contains
> >variables for these but not there actual data. I want to change them
> >where they are defined but I cannot find the file which they are defined
> >in.
> >
> >Does this make more sense?
>
> --
> My public encryption key is available from www.keyserver.net
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Should I build up an athlon box or buy an Imac DV?
Date: 06 Aug 2000 10:23:13 -0700
Hi,
I'm using a computer I built up from components a couple of
years ago, one with a Cyrix 686, PCI bus, 64 meg of Ram, a desktop
case. (I never liked towers, I want a computer I can put things on
top of, but, having stuffed boards and cables inside this desktop box,
I can see why people might prefer towers.) Anyway, I've got the itch
to get a new machine, something more powerful. My first inclination
was to get an Athlon based system. Researching it, it seems you have
to be very careful about components to get the best use, particularly
the RAM should be CAS 2. They also are power hungry and the power
ultimately gets converted to heat of course, so you need fans, and a
robust P/S. The house I live in predates electrification in this
area, so the wiring was installed as an afterthought and is old with
few outlets and I'm a little concerned about drawing too much power
from any of them. Also, I already have 2 monitors, but one is very
old, a 14" NEC C400, and the other, which I love, is an LCD monitor.
(I'm glad I didn't get addicted to Civilization Call to Power from
Loki until I'd gotten that new monitor to stare at.) But I can't
afford another LCD monitor so if I want to run both computers, which I
do, then one of them would be going back to that old NEC, or else
spend I'd spend more money on a better quality CRT type monitor but
not another LCD one.
Now Apple has lowered prices and I'm looking at Imacs and
thinking, I wouldn't have to get a new monitor, the machine is quiet!
It has a small footprint, how powerful??? (I'd probably get the DV for
$1K). It can run linux but how many linux applications since most
stuff is geared around the 386 architecture. I also get the benefit
of Apple's own O/S if I want their games/apps. There's supposed to be
video-editing software built in for the DVs but if I wanted to edit my
old analog VHS tapes I'd need more equipment to convert to
digital. The Imac's processor is RISC based, which might be of
interest to me. I used to be an assembly language programmer long
ago, worked with Motorola 68000s, 8086's, 6502's and other processors
that most of you would have never heard of. I toyed with the
80[23]86's on the assembler level but hated the instruction set and
could never bring myself to learn much of it. The PowerPC would have
to be nicer, though I suspect I'd never get around to investigating it
at this stage of my life. Still, just knowing there was a decent,
semi-efficient design at the heart of the system would probably give
me some pleasure.
The biggest drawbacks are really, it's unknown territory
(That's also a plus in a way). There's bound to be some
incompatibilities with all my old stuff. One can't dink around with
the inside (again, that may also be a plus in some ways. I'm a
software guy; I don't dink around with hardware just for the sake of
dinking around.) But Apples are very proprietary and I don't know
anyone who knows their stuff.
So, in my quandary, I'm putting this out on the net to see if anyone
can offer a new slant on the thing. I realize most people who might post
would have different considerations than mine, but perhaps the discussion
might be of interest to others and a random observation might really
clarify things for me.
======== Remove "UhUh" and "Spam" to get my real email address =============
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Rysdam)
Subject: Re: Modifying Redhat 6.2
Date: 6 Aug 2000 16:59:52 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:24:35 GMT, Frank Hale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>David Rysdam wrote:
>>
>> Have you looked at the scripts that are in the redhat-release rpm?
>> Maybe one of them fills the /etc/redhat-release file with data.
>>
>
>Yes, there are no scripts with it. The only thing in redhat-release
>src.rpm is a spec file which contains the script which creates the
>/etc/redhat-release file. But again there are only variables for redhat
>version and release name. Here is the spec file (RedHat 6.2).
>
>Summary: Red Hat Linux release file
>Name: redhat-release
>Version: %{release_version}
>Release: 1
>Copyright: GPL
>Group: System Environment/Base
>BuildArchitectures: noarch
>Obsoletes: rawhide-release
>BuildRoot: /var/tmp/redhat-release-root
>
>%description
>Red Hat Linux release file
>
>%install
>mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc
>echo "Red Hat Linux release %{version} (%{release_name})" >
>$RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/redhat-release
>
>%clean
>rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
>
>%files
>%attr(0644,root,root) /etc/redhat-release
>
>
>Where are version and release_name defined?
Bingo, I think I found it.
First, you probably want to download the (incredibly old) Maximum RPM
book. You can find a copy at www.rpm.org.
Second, the answer is probably "environment variables". Check out
these:
RPM_PACKAGE_NAME
RPM_PACKAGE_VERSION
RPM_PACKAGE_RELEASE
See the book for details.
--
My public encryption key is available from www.keyserver.net
------------------------------
From: Frank Hale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Modifying Redhat 6.2
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 18:05:18 GMT
Robert Jones wrote:
>
> David Rysdam wrote:
>
> > Have you looked at the scripts that are in the redhat-release rpm?
> > Maybe one of them fills the /etc/redhat-release file with data.
>
> I'm running RH 6.0 (Hedwig). I can't imagine that 6.2 would be a great deal
> different.
>
> Anyhow, if I mount the source CD and
> $rpm -Uvh /mnt/cdrom/SRPMS/redhat-release-6.0-1.src.rpm I wind up with the
> file /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/redhat-release.spec which reads like this:
> ==========
>
> Summary: Red Hat Linux release file
> Name: redhat-release
> Version: 6.0
> Release: 1
> Copyright: GPL
> Group: System Environment/Base
> BuildArchitectures: noarch
> Obsoletes: rawhide-release
> BuildRoot: /var/tmp/redhat-release-root
>
> %description
> Red Hat Linux release file
>
> %install
> mkdir -p $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc
> echo "Red Hat Linux release %{version} (Hedwig)" >
> $RPM_BUILD_ROOT/etc/redhat-release
>
> %clean
> rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT
>
> %files
> %attr(0644,root,root) /etc/redhat-release
>
> ============
>
> Could it be that this is what he's looking for?
>
I subscribed to the redhat-devel mailing list. Seems they define these 2
variables on the command line. Stupid me!
Thanks everyone for your help,
Frank
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 16:25:03 +0100
From: The Cookie Monster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.mach,comp.os.os2.misc
Subject: Re: Operating systems for personal-computers?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 00:16:18 +0100, Kelly and Sandy wrote:
> > I think the KDE GUI is delightful work. In my
> > ever-so-'umble opinion (IMHO), X-Windows Linux is still too geeky,
> > hmm, that's too weak a word for it. Obstinate, officious, and
> > snitty. However... that KDE... whew... despite it's geekdom
> > 15-year-old-appealing "taskbar", the KDE-based Linux system is
> > _nearly_ usable and useful to a computer literate (but non-"IT")
> > person. But it's hardly something to choose for
> > [...]
> > The astronomer Dr Rachael Padman has
> > written an article mourning the decision taken in her scientific
> > circles to abandon VMS and jump onto the UNIX bandwagon, and in
> > the process given a wonderfully honest appraisal of UNIX: A
> > command-line system which kicks off by replying that the word 'help'
> > is not meaningful.
>
> I read Padman's article. She falls into a certain set of people who
> want computers, computing products, and the computer industry to be
> people-oriented. Unfortunately, I frequently observe a preponderance
> of women with this attitude (thankfully none of my IT coworkers); it
> takes on a kind of motherly, clucking, excessively "wise" attitude that
> what really matters in any discussion is the "human" element, "human"
> meaning here whether people feel good about themselves and get along
> (as opposed to, for example, developing their full potential, creating
> a better future, pursuing absolutes which they've identified as being
> valuable... put harshly, the attitude is relativistic whining of the
> kind usually used by the self-indulgent to justify their own
> dysfunction).
>
> Now, this can be forgiven in the non-computer-literate population at
> large at least insofar as, if they're involved with computers, it's
> for mild office use, or home use to entertain themselves or help them
> with life's little tasks. But, it's disturbing that someone from the
> scientific community, who has probably used the internet daily for
> years, starting long before the net "revolution" of the early 90's,
> forgets:
> without UNIX,
> - the internet would not exist. It was the platform on which most of
> the development of the protocols the internet is based on took place
> - the software environments, from email to GUIs, which millions of the
> "humans" these folks elect themselves as advocates for use, would not
> exist, or would exist only in primitive, unrecognizable form. UNIX
> was the platform on which they went from research prototypes to
> functional commercial technologies usable by millions.
> - the systems which those millions of "humans" use daily would not
> exist. WinNT is based on technology developed in a UNIX derivative.
> Windows and DOS were crippled knockoffs of various elements of UNIX.
> UNIX is the point of origin of most of the fundamental features of
> modern operating systems. Its competition is cretinous in comparison,
> and the market segments that have the most stringent requirements on
> software performance and reliability vote with their feet, they buy
> UNIX.
>
> Maybe Dr. Padman, in her academic environment, has experienced that
> vital infrastructure without which day-to-day operations of an
> organization, be it a department or a company, can't proceed, is
> frequently ignored (along with the people supporting it) in favor of
> activities which have high visibility or otherwise highlight the
> penis size of some individual or organization. She needs to pick up
> on the fact that "user-friendly" is skin deep when it comes to software,
> and that the services she's been using daily for years wouldn't exist
> without software which focused on computing's "big science" issues,
> as opposed to computing's version of comicbook physics. There's
> user-friendly software out there, if she and other can't find it, they
> should educate themselves and search it out; in the process, they might
> gain a deeper and more substantial understanding of the technology
> they depend on.
>
Surely VMS is of a similar vintage to UNIX (?)
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