Linux-Misc Digest #837, Volume #25 Fri, 22 Sep 00 17:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Implications ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: End-User Alternative to Windows ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: End-User Alternative to Windows (Yannick)
Re: view tty output!!! (Troutman)
XFree 4.01 and Intel 815E ("Chris Tromans")
Re: Problems with telnet (Dances With Crows)
Re: ext2 fs recovery (Dances With Crows)
Re: KPPP prevents other apps from loading (Dances With Crows)
Re: Mounting a Windows Millennium partition (Dances With Crows)
Re: Wierd things happen with makewhatis.... ("David ..")
Re: shut down using keys (Claus Atzenbeck)
What means: VFS: file-max limit 4096 reached (Neal Rhodes)
perl - need help with a regexp (me)
HELP: lilo not loading Win98 (Adam Lewis)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.software.config-mgmt
Subject: Re: Implications
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:53:57 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Andreas K�h�ri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <%0Iy5.12646$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> paul snow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Implications
> >========
> >
> >So suppose that you are required to come up with a model that
explains not
> >only what your software does (which various OO technologies do with
varying
> >success), but also where your software comes from.
>
> Your software comes from you.
I don't write every program I use, and I know I didn't write every
program he uses.
>
> >This requirement would
> >force you past the von Neumann model, where the program store P
defines the
> >execution environment E:
>
> I fail to see the connection to the von Neumann model.
> The program store does not define an execution environment.
Your machine is off. You turn it on. Something executes. What
defines that something?
>
> >
> > P --> E
> >
> >Non-trivial computer systems are constructed from a collection of
> >software, installed in some order.
>
> If you're not talking about microcode, cache protocols or the like,
> then I would say that this is nonsense. The complexity of a computer
> system does not depend on e.g. the operating system it runs.
Huh? I can't for the life of me figure out what he could possibly mean
here.
>
> >So in non-trivial computer systems, there always
> >exists some independent definition of P. Call this definition X.
> >
> > X --> P --> E
> >
> >Furthermore, X is not generally a single source. If X is a disk
image
> >applied to the hard drive (the P of a computer system), then X may
in fact
> >be a single source. But usually it isn't.
>
> (void)
>
> >
> >So X is made up of a set of components representing the number of
installs n
> >required to build up P in a given computer system.
> >
> > X = {X(1), X(2), X(3),...,X(n)}
> >
> >Our current software architectures do not model X. In fact, they
doesn't
> >tend to model installation and integration at all. IT spends 75
percent of
> >their money in this area, but it doesn't seem to be important enough
to
> >study.
>
> Eh, what's "software architecture"? I know that the hardware
> architecture does not model X (the software). That's because it's not
> its task.
X is the set of software that can be installed on a computer system.
P is the set of installed software in a computer system.
E is what you get when you turn your computer system on.
I get the impression that he didn't have a clue.
> >
> >With open software, modeling X is even more important, since the
various
> >components of X come from different sources, and in many different
releases
> >and versions. Understanding and modeling how this is done will lead
to
> >better solutions and mechanisms for software development and
distribution.
>
> Buggerit.
>
> Why do we want to model software?! Please, tell me! Oh, don't bother
> BTW, I just killfiled you anyway so I won't see your answer.
Everything we do is patterned around some model of the problem. That
is what math is, a model of the relationships between concepts. If you
can prove things about the real world using mathmatical models, you can
reach the moon.
My claim is that we have a big integration, development, and deployment
problem with software. And we do not have an appropriate model of the
problem. Why would we need such a model? Well, so we can make
progress, do things better, understand what and why we do what we do.
> >
> >Fun Implications
> >===========
> >
> >This math may remind some (those with a biological background) of
DNA. It
> >should. I would claim that all process based systems are forced
into this
> >model, by definition. X forms the DNA for a computer system. Genes
are the
> >components of DNA, much like some X(i) is a component of X.
> >
> >Thus there is a very literal genetic component to computer systems
because
> >both a living cell and a computer system are process based systems.
> >
> >The genetic nature of computer systems can not be circumvented.
> >
> >Really Fun Implications
> >===============
> >
> >So software is defined by the "genes" of a computer system, the
installation
> >medium. That means that a software package, like what I might buy
at a
> >computer store, represents genetic material.
>
> That is a valid picture of it, yes.
>
> >
> >The biological term for the exchange of genetic material is... sex.
>
> Ok.
>
> >
> >Adding software to my software library is a literal form of computer
sex.
>
> Whatever turns you on.
>
> >
> >So all along, our computers have been using us to spread their
genetic
> >material, like bees.
>
> No. Computers are, by definition, unable to use anything. It has no
> free will and can not think. It can't plan or spread its software or
> write license agreements or produce new operating systems. A computer
> will do whatever you tell it to do. If you tell it to do whatever it
> wants to do, you must first tell it about the options it has. It's an
> it. It will always be limited.
Nothing I wrote here claimed otherwise. I am just about to say the
same thing...
>
> >
> >We are also their agents for developing new genetic material, and we
are the
> >environmental agents that supply the developmental pressures that
drive some
> >genetic material to extinction, while other material (like Linux
perhaps?)
> >flourishes.
>
> Nope.
I think I just said what he said previously. Okay, I left out the
phrase "agents of change that respond to those pressures". But if he
had not been so disoriented by a new idea, he could have picked up the
spirit there.
> >
> >And most of the alternatives to Linux require people pay for their
> >software...
> >
> >
> >Paul Snow
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
>
> Intresting views, but really off topic.
>
> *plonk*, sir.
>
> What a strange person...
Thanks.
>
> /A
>
> --
> Andreas K�h�ri, <URL:http://hello.to/andkaha/>. Junk mail, no.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> What part of "GNU" did you not understand? <URL:http://www.gnu.org/>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: End-User Alternative to Windows
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:01:37 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
chrisv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You think that's bad, in tech school (early 80's) we each had to build
> a simple Z80 computer. Programming this computer was done via direct
> machine-code (of course). The really bad part was that loading the
> program into memory consisted of flipping switches on a 8-position DIP
> switch for each byte, followed by a press of a button to load that
> byte in. Talk about stupid!
You obviously don't work in marketting. I recall raising my eyebrows
when IMSAI advertised this as a feature ("no complicated I/O") on a home
PC (as I recall, 8008-based.)
--
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
"A BIND is a terrible thing to waste"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Yannick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: End-User Alternative to Windows
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 20:03:02 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jean-David Beyer-valinux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Perhaps in the summer it wastes energy, whether I run an air
conditioner
> to keep the temperatures down or not. But the rest of the year, I use
less
> energy to heat the house than I would were I to burn fuel oil (at a
far
> lower effeciency than my electric power company does) to supply the
same
> number of BTUs. So, except in the summer, the energy cost is really
zero
> or negative (the energy into the computer is turned into heat with
> essentially 100% efficiency).
100% efficiency only compared to what enters the computer. That's worse
if you consider the efficiency of the power plant and power transport
lines.
> Furthermore, cycling the machine off every night and on every morning
> wears out the bearings in the fans and disk drives, the power surges
wear
> out other things.
As for the fans, they'll die out anyway...
I do turn it off at night, but of course since I sleep in the same room
that's better.
> Some people I know turn their machines on, run them for 15 minutes,
> turn them off, then turn them on, run them ... . You get the
> idea. To replace the failed parts harms the environment in many ways,
from
> the disk drives, fans, and power supplies going into land fills, the
CFC's
> and everything else that goes into the manufacture of semiconductors,
disk
> drives, and so on, the environmental damage from the mining and
> transportation of all the components, ... .
>
As far as I am concerned, I turn it off when I plan at least 1 hour of
inactivity. Anyway I never had to replace anything else than the power
unit and the fan. For domestic use, I believe you have more risk of the
parts becoming obsolete than wearing out...
Yannick.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Troutman)
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat
Subject: Re: view tty output!!!
Date: 22 Sep 2000 16:05:51 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] graced us with the following:
>I have a program running on machine ABC. This program is procesing a
>log file which display the parsing of the log file if I am sitting on
>machine ABC.
>
>Now I telnet to machine ABC. Can I view the same output from the tty
>that is displaying the parsing of the log file via a telnet session.
>
>If it's possible, can someone let me know!!!!!
Have a look at /etc/inittab and using gettys.
--
___________________________________________
Mike Troutman
http://www.troutman.org
------------------------------
From: "Chris Tromans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: XFree 4.01 and Intel 815E
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:27:19 +0100
I am having trouble with XFree 4.01 on my machine with a Intel 815E chipset
(using the built in graphics). I am using Redhat 6.2 and their kernel
2.2.16-3. This has agpgart 0.99 patched into it by RedHat. When I try to
run startx I get the error 'Unable to open /dev/agpgart' and then 'Fatal
server error Add Screen/ScreenInit'. If I run 'insmod agpgart' I get:
Using /lib/modules/2.2.16-3/misc/agpgart.o
/lib/modules/2.2.16-3/misc/agpgart.o: init_module: device or resource busy.
Hint: insmod errors can be caused by incorrrect module parameters, including
invalid IO or IRQ parameters.
I can't find documentation anywhere for what parameters the agpgart module
takes. If anyone can point me at this or can offer any other help it would
be much appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Chris
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: Problems with telnet
Date: 22 Sep 2000 20:38:24 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 19:28:35 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>I have a RH 6.2 installation at work as a internet gateway. We use this
>crap satelite access through a company, thus the connection always cuts
>in and out. The problem is that when the connection to the internet is
>not working, i can't telnet to the linuxbox at the same time. But as
>soon as the internet comes back up, i can get in without any problems.
>Any suggestions?
telnetting from where? If you're telnetting from another Unix box, it
would be a good idea to put that Linux machine's IP address and hostname
in /etc/hosts like so:
192.168.1.2 machine.somehwere.org machine
(similar for 'Doze boxes, but the file is somewhere within the depths of
C:\WINDOZE\ .) That should help. Also, if the machine you're telnetting
from and the Linux box are not on the same subnet, you're not going to
be able to get to the Linux machine without access to the rest of the
Net.
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Those who do not understand Unix are
http://www.brainbench.com / condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
=============================/ ==Henry Spencer
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: ext2 fs recovery
Date: 22 Sep 2000 20:38:25 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:02:23 -0700, Dan Meliza wrote:
>
>i recently managed to run mkswap on an ext2 partition, which of course made
>it quite unmountable. e2fsck says that the superblock is corrupted and
>suggests that I provide an alternate superblock (namely 8193). when i do
>that i get the same error message. a direct dump of the partition reveals
>that the data is still there.
>
>are there other alternate superblocks that i don't know about?
16385? 32769? (there's a pattern here; it's POWER_OF_2 +1.) Keep in
mind that mkswap scribbles all over the front of the partition, so any
data you left there is gone. As a last resort, you may have to do
"mke2fs -S /dev/hdXX && e2fsck /dev/hdXX" but read the man pages first
so you know what those do.
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Those who do not understand Unix are
http://www.brainbench.com / condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
=============================/ ==Henry Spencer
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: KPPP prevents other apps from loading
Date: 22 Sep 2000 20:38:27 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:26:37 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Has anyone had this problem. I launch kppp from my root account just fine
>and connect to the net, but then I can't start any applications. ie
>netscape, konsole. As soon as I kill kppp, I can start my other apps.
I posted something about this earlier this week. The problem is that
you have the "Auto-Configure Hostname from this IP" option in KPPP set.
So when you dial in, you're assigned the address xxx.yyy.zzz.www and
your machine then queries DNS and sets its hostname to whatever that
address resolves to (typically NOT what you have your hostname set to!)
X uses the machine's hostname (among other things) to determine whether
or not clients are authorized to connect to the X server.
Alternatively, you could just do "xhost +" after starting kppp, but
that's a BAD IDEA. HTH,
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Those who do not understand Unix are
http://www.brainbench.com / condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
=============================/ ==Henry Spencer
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dances With Crows)
Subject: Re: Mounting a Windows Millennium partition
Date: 22 Sep 2000 20:38:28 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:30:04 -0000, David Lanier wrote:
>I use RH 6.2 installed on primary master, and Windows Millennium installed
>on secondary master hdd. Before Win Me I had Win 95 and had no problems
>mounting the drive in Linux as a DOS VFAT drive using Linuxconf. However,
>since I have reformatted my win drive for a true FAT32 filesystem, I can no
>logner mount it. When booting Linux, the drive is listed in the boot
>sequence as hdc, but in Linuxconf, it (hdc) doesn't appear at all. I also
>have a secondary slave drive that was formatted as a DOS FAT16 partition
>and it appears as hdd in Linux. I am able to mount it with no problems.
Ain't no thing. FAT32 support has been in Linux for at least 2 years:
mkdir /mnt/lose
mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/lose
Add the following line to /etc/fstab to get it to auto-mount upon system
boot, but read the man page for mount so you know what's going on!:
/dev/hdc1 /mnt/lose vfat umask=000 0 0
--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / Those who do not understand Unix are
http://www.brainbench.com / condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
=============================/ ==Henry Spencer
------------------------------
From: "David .." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Wierd things happen with makewhatis....
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:32:50 -0500
Dave Barcelo wrote:
>
>
> Yes I tried both of those. slocate works but I want to update the whatis
> db, not the locate db.
Ok This is a new one that I haven't seen before but you may find some
ideas as to what or where to look to fix it at the address below.
http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~dranch/LINUX/TrinityOS/cHTML/TrinityOS-071400c-9.html
Page down to section 9.5 Make the apropos database
--
Confucius say: He who play in root, eventually kill tree.
Registered with the Linux Counter. http://counter.li.org
ID # 123538
------------------------------
From: Claus Atzenbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: shut down using keys
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 22:41:44 +0200
Sjoerd Langkemper wrote:
>
> By default you can't. You can however take a look in your /etc/inittab file,
> where it says:
>
> # Trap CTRL-ALT-DELETE
> ca::ctrlaltdel:/sbin/shutdown -t3 -r now
>
> You ca subsitute -r for -h to shutdown your computer with Ctrl-Alt-Delete.
This helps a lot!
Thanks to all of you for your help!
Claus.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:58:46 -0400
From: Neal Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: What means: VFS: file-max limit 4096 reached
Saw this in /var/log/messages, around the time this system started
erratically failing to reply to rsh requests from other machines.
Sep 22 15:46:27 blah kernel: VFS: file-max limit 4096 reached
Sep 22 15:46:27 blah kernel: Unable to load interpreter
/lib/ld-linux.so.2
It doesn't sound like a good thing, but I don't know what to do
to fix it.
--
==============================================================================
Neal Rhodes MNOP Ltd (770)-
972-5430
President Lilburn (atlanta) GA 30247 Fax:
978-4741
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mnopltd.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:29:03 +0200
From: me <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.perl,comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: perl - need help with a regexp
hi
i have a string similar to the following:
<A HREF="http://my.host.com/blah/blah.html" LAST_VISIT="0"
LAST_MODIFIED="0">blah blah</A>
i want to extract just the web page location, ie.
http://my.host.com/blah/blah.html
This is the expression i'm using:
@URLArray = m/(http:.*")/i;
but it matches the entire line up until the last " which isn't what i
want. i want it to match everything until the first " only. how do i do
this?
thanks
ali
------------------------------
Subject: HELP: lilo not loading Win98
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adam Lewis)
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 21:03:15 GMT
I've install linux a dozen times on different machines, and this is the first
time LILO has not been able to boot a Win98 partition. I installed RedHat
v6.1. I have two hard drives: One IDE (with linux installed) and one SCSI
(with win98 installed). I have /boot mounted on one partition, and / (root)
mounted on another (both on the IDE drive).
Here is my lilo.conf file: (any ideas?)
boot = /dev/hda
timeout = 50
linear
prompt
default = linux
vga = normal
read-only
map=/boot/map
install=/boot/boot.b
image = /boot/vmlinuz-2.2.12-20
label = linux
initrd = /boot/initrd-2.2.12-20.img
root = /dev/hda6
other = /dev/sda1
label = win98
table=/dev/sda
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
