Linux-Misc Digest #26, Volume #26 Sat, 14 Oct 00 09:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Tutorial on Kernel patching (Rafael)
Re: facing problem while configuring the cyclade z card with redhat 6.2 (Jerry L
Kreps)
Re: Netscape uses cache more than its quota? (Tijmen Stam)
Re: can't get via82cxxx to sing ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: timeset offset (Jean-David Beyer)
Re: Linux contra Microsoft (Tijmen Stam)
Is there any simple way to find required stuff needed to install (Patrik Kempe)
Re: Linux contra Microsoft (Tijmen Stam)
Savign xmodmap setting between sessions ("D. D. Brierton")
How can one app crashing bring down whole system? ("D. D. Brierton")
Re: How can one app crashing bring down whole system? (Tony Lawrence)
Re: Linux contra Microsoft (Tijmen Stam)
Re: HELP: RPM database updating on a package? (Friedhelm Neyer)
Re: How can one app crashing bring down whole system? (Christopher Browne)
Re: How can one app crashing bring down whole system? ("D. D. Brierton")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Rafael <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Tutorial on Kernel patching
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:24:04 +0200
I need some tutorial on kernel patching topic. I read all Kernel-Howto
but it is to little to understand how to patch and compile kernel
Please give me some good links to such tutorials
Rafael
------------------------------
From: Jerry L Kreps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: facing problem while configuring the cyclade z card with redhat 6.2
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 05:35:13 -0500
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Hello,
>
>Dinesh here. I am facing a problem which try to configur the Cyclades Z
>card with redhat 6.2. I tried to call tech support of Cyclade, they
>said that u(I) will find .c file for the cyclade card. I search for
>that but i didnt find the .c file.
>
>if u know the location and how to configur the cyclade than reply me.
>
>Thanks
>
>from
>
>dinesh
su to root.
Then do 'updatedb'
When that is done do 'locate cyclades.c'
IF you don't see it listed then you don't have it.
It is probably in your /usr/src/linuix directory, IF you have the Linux kernel
source tree populated. If you don't you will have to load the kernel source
from your distro CD and then probably do a 'make xconfig' to select the
cyclades driver as a module, then recompile your kernel, etc...
JLK
------------------------------
From: Tijmen Stam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Netscape uses cache more than its quota?
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:00:57 +0200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
==============F3F56EB7B5F23901EA111CEE
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hal Burgiss wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:04:07 +0530, Kousik Nandy
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >Anyone has any idea why netscape uses 51M of cache when
> >I asked it to use 8M? How do I limit this usage?
>
> AFAIK, it has been this way for some time. I use a cron job to delete
> the whole bloody thing once a week.
>
> --
> Hal B
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> --
I don't know why It does this, but if you say "cleanup cache" it just
removes the links to it from the index.db file...
I allow max 10 mb cache.
before after (cleanup cache, all sizes in kb)
said by about:cache: +-7900 0
du cache: +-70000 +-63000
so it removes some files, I think that all files from all crashes aren't
removed.... A cron-job would be best here...
btw try about:cache, about:image-cache & about:memory-cache...
--
>From Tijmen Stam - "I believe in Linux" - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
POVray page http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/somepage/ Last update: 20001010
count linux @ counter.li.org reg#178552-54654, Machine#78930 & #78931
==============F3F56EB7B5F23901EA111CEE
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="tijmen.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Tijmen Stam
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="tijmen.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Stam;Tijmen
tel;fax:++31 (0)50 5425400
tel;home:++31 (0)50 5415448
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
org:Me, Organized? You've got to be kidding!;Chaos Storage Facility #666
adr:;;Middelberterweg 48;Groningen;Groningen;9723 EW;The Netherlands
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
x-mozilla-cpt:;-6624
fn:Tijmen Stam
end:vcard
==============F3F56EB7B5F23901EA111CEE==
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: can't get via82cxxx to sing
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:07:57 GMT
In <8s8lni$mq3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, on 10/15/00
at 05:01 AM, "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>Ive got similar problems with the same M/B but I get error on
>not saying module failed due to device or resource busy.
Some news:
I downloaded the OSS drivers <http://www.opensound.com> last
night and installed and now Linux is singing like a bird!
I wish I could figure out how to get the soundcard to work
without the OSS stuff though the price (about 25USD) is modest.
Still, I'm enjoying sound but would now like to know how to
configure the card without add-in software.
Hope this helps a byte.
F.
===========================================================
Felmon John Davis
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Union College / Schenectady, NY
os/2 - ma kauft koi katz em sack
===========================================================
------------------------------
From: Jean-David Beyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: timeset offset
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 07:15:10 -0400
Ron Nicholls wrote:
> Just noticed that my RedHat 6.2 installation keeps setting my system
> (bios) clock back by 10 hours each time I boot up.
>
> I am normaly 10 hours ahead of UTC, so I must have screwed up during the
> install.
>
> How can this be corrected, the "timemachine" in 'control-panel' does not
> work.
> --
>
> -
> Regards
> RonN
I screwed this up recently. IIRC, what I did to fix it was to do (as root)
date xxxxxxxxxxx to set the system's view of the correct time right. Then I
did something like /sbin/hwclock --utc --debug --systohc to set the
hardware clock and tell somebody to use UTC. Since my memory is hazy, you
might wish to do man hwclock.
--
.~. Jean-David Beyer Registered Linux User 85642.
/V\ Registered Machine 73926.
/( )\ Shrewsbury, New Jersey
^^-^^ 7:00am up 4 days, 12:39, 2 users, load average: 2.23, 2.16, 2.10
------------------------------
From: Tijmen Stam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux contra Microsoft
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:28:29 +0200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
==============67EBBC6DD8678834B7C8F2DD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'll give you a quarter if you can get AOL instant messanger up and
> running in less than a week (if you're really a novice - if you're an
> expert, you get the quarter for a < 2hr install).
I can config, compile and install a kernel in 3 hours (takes 2 hours to
compile...) did it about 20 times. That'l be $5,00 Thanks ;-)
> Any OS which requires that you COMPILE a program before using it is not
> ready for the masses. When was the last time you compiled the OS in your
> microwave, or your car?
I did in my fax: it said plase select language and phone numbers ad
stuff, and then needed about 2 mins of "Please wait..." and then a test
page rolled out...
Okay. you have a new pc. Just insert the windows cdrom in the drive, and
within 5 minutes (the copy time) you have windows up and running...
Guess
not.
I recently read a test: they let a novice install w2000 and suse 6.4.
(C't
Dutch version Nr 10-2000, www.c-t.nl)
Windows took 1 hour, but they first had to download the matrox driver.
Can
a real novice do that? naaa. You've got to be intermediate to find that
out.
Suse took 35 minutes, and all was okay, but the sound. Even the guru
couldn't find the problem for 2 hours, until the beginner remarked the
volume was on 0... Can happen to the best one.
So for installing: a clear advantage to SuSE.
But now to the compile: no win program immediately runs. But if you have
a
nice and shiny installer frond-end to the compiling (wich would probably
use a new standard Makefile-like file) hiding the compiling itself, and
giving clear error-messages, it would be for the newbies too...
btw: if I had made a piece of software, I'd like to get questions about
it. I just don't like to get the same message 10 times a day, so then I
woud alter theprogram or README file so i don't get the question again,
and create a standard-issue RTFM reply message ;-)
> At the very least, everything one needs to do the compile should be
> included in the distribution.
No, I disagree. I'ld like a distro wich even compiles the kernel, but
ises a clear autodetect first... (like Win hardware installer, but then
in the win.com... )
Tijmen
--
>From Tijmen Stam - "I believe in Linux" - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
POVray page http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/somepage/ Last update:
20001010
count linux @ counter.li.org reg#178552-54654, Machine#78930 & #78931
==============67EBBC6DD8678834B7C8F2DD
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="tijmen.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Tijmen Stam
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="tijmen.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Stam;Tijmen
tel;fax:++31 (0)50 5425400
tel;home:++31 (0)50 5415448
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
org:Me, Organized? You've got to be kidding!;Chaos Storage Facility #666
adr:;;Middelberterweg 48;Groningen;Groningen;9723 EW;The Netherlands
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
x-mozilla-cpt:;-6624
fn:Tijmen Stam
end:vcard
==============67EBBC6DD8678834B7C8F2DD==
------------------------------
From: Patrik Kempe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Is there any simple way to find required stuff needed to install
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:21:01 +0200
I'm trying to install XFree86 4.0.1 from rpm's, though I can't get it to
work. When I press 'upgrade' (I'm using rh 6.2 w/ gnome) this dialogue
is displayed saying stuff like 'the following dependency problems
occured:' and then it lists some files needed, eg 'XFree86-4.0.1-1
requires /etc/pam.d/system-auth, XFree86-4.0.1-1 requires
libncurses.so.5' and stuff like that.
Now, I believe I've downloaded and selected all the packages needed for
XFree86 4.0.1. If that is the case, is there any not-utterly-complicated
way to find those files required?
Patrik
------------------------------
From: Tijmen Stam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux contra Microsoft
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:45:01 +0200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
==============42348C4A91DFCDD7859F46A0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >BTW, there is a lot of windows software that have to be compiled before
> >you use it.
>
> Could you expand on that?
A friend of mine ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) (and i'm helping too...) is working
an an adventure with really cool graphics, but it was waaaay to big for the
net. (300 k for the engine, + 30 meg per level, (the images are rendered in
pov-ray).)
So every level has to be "compiled" (rendered) first on the computer to
make up the graphics (from +- 100 k to 30 megs, that's a 300x deflate, try
that with a .tar.gz!) that takes, (on a 450 mhz, dependent on the quality,
but on qood quality) about 10 hours = 1 night a level.
It just asks "do you already have pov3.x installed? y/n" and if not, it
downloads and installs it.
So this game has all the "big-ness" of a game like myst, just the download
is 4 megs for engine/pov and 50-1000 k per level (instead of 10-100 megs...
Tijmen
--
>From Tijmen Stam - "I believe in Linux" - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
POVray page http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/somepage/ Last update: 20001010
count linux @ counter.li.org reg#178552-54654, Machine#78930 & #78931
==============42348C4A91DFCDD7859F46A0
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="tijmen.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Tijmen Stam
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="tijmen.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Stam;Tijmen
tel;fax:++31 (0)50 5425400
tel;home:++31 (0)50 5415448
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
org:Me, Organized? You've got to be kidding!;Chaos Storage Facility #666
adr:;;Middelberterweg 48;Groningen;Groningen;9723 EW;The Netherlands
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
x-mozilla-cpt:;-6624
fn:Tijmen Stam
end:vcard
==============42348C4A91DFCDD7859F46A0==
------------------------------
From: "D. D. Brierton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Savign xmodmap setting between sessions
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:24:47 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I used xmodmap -e "<stuff>" to set up my alt and meta keys as I wanted
them. I created a .xmodmaprc file to save these settings:
$ cat ~/.xmodmaprc
keycode 113 = Alt_R
keycode 116 = Meta_R
add mod1 = Alt_R
add mod4 = Meta_R
Now how do I get these settings to automatically take effect each time
I start X?
My machine boots into X and I use gdm as my login manager. I do not
have a .xinitrc file in general; I like to use different window
manager/desktop setups as the mood takes me and gdm allow me to do
this. I tried creating a .xinitrc file which contained just the single
line:
xmodmap ~/.xmodmaprc
but this did not work. Could comebody let me know how I can do what I'm
after---I'm sure it is dead simple but it seems to be eluding me.
Best,
Darren
--
======================================================================
D. D. Brierton Department of Philosophy, University of Edinburgh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~ddb
======================================================================
------------------------------
From: "D. D. Brierton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: How can one app crashing bring down whole system?
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:24:47 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
One of Linux's (and Unix's) strengths is supposed to be the way in which
each process runs in its own protected mode or space (excuse my
ignorance of the precise techical terminology). It is often touted that
unlike in other well-known operating systems one application crashing
cannot bring the whole system down with it.
On the whole my experince has borne this out. I have many experimental,
alpha, and beta pieces of software installed, which often crash, or
hang, or just vanish inexplicably, whilst everything else carries on as
if nothing has happened.
However, both Netscape and Mozilla have managed to do what supposedly
can't be done. Admittedly, Netscape hasn't done it in some time, but
when I was running an earlier version of Mandrake and an earlier
incarnation of Netscape 4.7x the latter would sometimes lock up the
whole X session so tightly that I couldn't even ctrl-alt-F1 to the
console, or ctrl-alt-backspace to kill the X session, requiring a hard
reboot.
Yesterday I installed Mozilla M18 and PSM, the personal security
manager. Now if I click on Tasks -> Privacy and Security -> Security
Manager the whole X session locks up. I can ctrl-alt-F1 to the console,
and from there if I "killall mozilla-bin" then the whole X session
crashes, and the console becomes unusable while gdm constantly tries to
restart and fails. Eventually a hard reboot is again required.
My question is not about Netscape or Mozilla---I'll post something about
Mozilla's above behaviour to one of the mozilla groups---but about linux
itself. I thought that this simply wasn't meant to be possible, given
the way applications were handled by the operating system.
So, are we guilty of hyping linux's stability into the realms of
fiction? How can an app effectively bring down the system?
Best,
Darren
--
======================================================================
D. D. Brierton Department of Philosophy, University of Edinburgh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~ddb
======================================================================
------------------------------
From: Tony Lawrence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How can one app crashing bring down whole system?
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:38:07 -0400
"D. D. Brierton" wrote:
>
> One of Linux's (and Unix's) strengths is supposed to be the way in which
> each process runs in its own protected mode or space (excuse my
> ignorance of the precise techical terminology). It is often touted that
> unlike in other well-known operating systems one application crashing
> cannot bring the whole system down with it.
>
> On the whole my experince has borne this out. I have many experimental,
> alpha, and beta pieces of software installed, which often crash, or
> hang, or just vanish inexplicably, whilst everything else carries on as
> if nothing has happened.
>
> However, both Netscape and Mozilla have managed to do what supposedly
> can't be done. Admittedly, Netscape hasn't done it in some time, but
> when I was running an earlier version of Mandrake and an earlier
> incarnation of Netscape 4.7x the latter would sometimes lock up the
> whole X session so tightly that I couldn't even ctrl-alt-F1 to the
> console, or ctrl-alt-backspace to kill the X session, requiring a hard
> reboot.
X isn't Linux.
And even though you think you couldn't CTRL-ALT-F1, you probably
could:
You need to have run "savetextmode" BEFORE you have a problem.
Therefore, the obvious thing to do is to put it in one of the
startup scripts. Then, if you are locked in X, do the
CTRL-ALT-F1 and then:
press CTRL-U and then CTRL-J.
Login, taking it on faith that the "Password" prompt will be
displayed even though you can't see it. It wouldn't hurt to count
to three after typing your "root" just to give it time to come
up. Press enter a few times, and then carefully type "textmode"
(again, surrounded by CTRL-J's) to restore your screen.
(If you were already logged in on F1, skip the login- duh!)
--
Tony Lawrence ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
SCO/Linux articles, help, book reviews, tests,
job listings and more : http://www.pcunix.com
------------------------------
From: Tijmen Stam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux contra Microsoft
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:02:43 +0200
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
==============BB9AB78B4408FFA96F900CAD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Tyler Larson wrote:
> > But the fact is that in terms of user-friendliness Linux really is
> > behind Windows a bit.
>
> I'm going to have to agree with you there. Windows is much more... smooth,
> for lack of a better term. But I think that is bacause they focus more
> effort on making it look good than making it work well. The average user
> doesn't know enough to understand why windows in inferior to everything else
> out there; he just knows that it looks smooth. He thinks that it LOOKS like it
> should run well, and therefore he assumes that it does.
>
> I think that with a little effort, Linux can be made to look and feel
> much better than windows. It's just never been as great a priority. Hackers
> aren't impressed by glitter.
[ot] Well, I am. I like the effort of KDE to have a "uniform" nesktop,
but I
don't like a boring uniformity. It looks to much like the 9x-prog. So I
run
enlightenment, wich is quite uniform too. It crashes all the time, but I
just
haven't had the time to search it all out.
> > Don't get me wrong - I love Linux, (I'm using it now), but I consider
> > myself a reasonably advanced user, and I still find little things
> > cropping up that surprise and often confuse me.
>
> amen.
amen.
> > Maybe, two or three years down the line, someone (most likely Mandrake,
> > SuSE or Caldera) will release a very accessible Linux distribution for
> > the masses - but right now it doesn't cut the mustard in that
> > environment. If you ask me.
>
> I agree, but I think there's more. Microsoft doesn't have public opinion on
> their side any more. I think that people are ready for something new,
> something that works this time. And Linux can easily be the answer. The
> biggest hang-up I believe lies in the software.
IMHO, with a little programming for the installation manager, and a
*lot* of
browsing for the right sodtware we could right now (not in three years)
make a
distro that is easy to install, configure, and if a fine Wine was there,
could
run windows progs too. It should also run Half-life and sort of things,
but
allready, game designers are working on linux-versions of their program
(wich
then, to have a big break-trough, should for us be GNU, but for the
programmers,
be commercial. paradox warning!).
I think the way of building such a distro is just: making the kernel
work, and
then gradually building up the best of the best software on to of it,
instead of
dumping just any X and any software we think one might need on the cd.
The main
problem is: uniformity and clearance. IT should contain as much help as
it
contains software, in a *clear* help-manager!
The best way to do so is making a few consessions: it only runs an
Inhell or 100%
compat pentium++ likes with 32 megs of ram, and you shouldn't have too
exclusive
hardware. Just including the same hardware as you would expect in a
standard
pc.(And what's the problem with winmodems and USB and stuff??? If they
Ms can
make a modem beep or a mouse crawl, Linux should be able to let it play
mozart or
let it dance! )
I'm no programmer, but if there is enough animo for making an distro
like that,
I'm in! Up to NewbieLinux 1.0! (for non-newbies too, it shouls also be
powerful
enough for a webserver or whatever a distro like suse does... I
> Ah... Glorious, isn't it? I should give up C++ and start writing
> science fiction instead.
I'll buy all your books! <sarcastic>
Tijmen
--
>From Tijmen Stam - "I believe in Linux" - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
POVray page http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/somepage/ Last update:
20001010
count linux @ counter.li.org reg#178552-54654, Machine#78930 & #78931
==============BB9AB78B4408FFA96F900CAD
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="tijmen.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Tijmen Stam
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="tijmen.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Stam;Tijmen
tel;fax:++31 (0)50 5425400
tel;home:++31 (0)50 5415448
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
url:http://members.tripod.lycos.nl/somepage/
org:Me, Organized? You've got to be kidding!;Chaos Storage Facility #666
adr:;;Middelberterweg 48;Groningen;Groningen;9723 EW;The Netherlands
version:2.1
email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
x-mozilla-cpt:;-13600
fn:Tijmen Stam
end:vcard
==============BB9AB78B4408FFA96F900CAD==
------------------------------
From: Friedhelm Neyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: HELP: RPM database updating on a package?
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:50:39 +0200
Hi
try a rpm --rebuilddb
McManus Leo Root DSP Consultant schrieb:
> I removed my Netscape 4.72 RMP package and installed 4.73 from a .tar
> file. Now I cannot install my PLUGGER.RPM file as it cannot see the
> Netscape 4.73 in the RPM database. Is there anything I can do about
> this?
>
> Thanks
>
> Leo
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: How can one app crashing bring down whole system?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:55:09 GMT
In our last episode (Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:24:47 +0100),
the artist formerly known as D. D. Brierton said:
>One of Linux's (and Unix's) strengths is supposed to be the way in which
>each process runs in its own protected mode or space (excuse my
>ignorance of the precise techical terminology). It is often touted that
>unlike in other well-known operating systems one application crashing
>cannot bring the whole system down with it.
Largely true, but you are finding something of the limits of it...
>On the whole my experince has borne this out. I have many experimental,
>alpha, and beta pieces of software installed, which often crash, or
>hang, or just vanish inexplicably, whilst everything else carries on as
>if nothing has happened.
... Quite Typical ...
>However, both Netscape and Mozilla have managed to do what supposedly
>can't be done. Admittedly, Netscape hasn't done it in some time, but
>when I was running an earlier version of Mandrake and an earlier
>incarnation of Netscape 4.7x the latter would sometimes lock up the
>whole X session so tightly that I couldn't even ctrl-alt-F1 to the
>console, or ctrl-alt-backspace to kill the X session, requiring a hard
>reboot.
>
>Yesterday I installed Mozilla M18 and PSM, the personal security
>manager. Now if I click on Tasks -> Privacy and Security -> Security
>Manager the whole X session locks up. I can ctrl-alt-F1 to the console,
>and from there if I "killall mozilla-bin" then the whole X session
>crashes, and the console becomes unusable while gdm constantly tries to
>restart and fails. Eventually a hard reboot is again required.
>
>My question is not about Netscape or Mozilla---I'll post something about
>Mozilla's above behaviour to one of the mozilla groups---but about linux
>itself. I thought that this simply wasn't meant to be possible, given
>the way applications were handled by the operating system.
>
>So, are we guilty of hyping linux's stability into the realms of
>fiction? How can an app effectively bring down the system?
The problem here is twofold, or perhaps even threefold.
1. As far as we can tell from what you have said, there is no
evidence that Linux had actually crashed in any of the situations
you describe.
2. There is a fundamental potential problem with software that
interacts with the flakey video hardware that is typically
sold with PCs.
PC video chipsets seem to be largely designed based on what
kind of K001 eyecandy they offer gamers, as opposed to being
designed to fundamentally Be Robust.
As a result, they _are_ fairly flakey, and it's not too tough
for them to get into unfortunate states that can only be
resolved by outright powering them off.
In effect, while it may be that Netscape/Mozilla are doing
something "challenging," the problem isn't with the app, it
is that the hardware is getting "wedged up," which is a
_hardware_ problem.
It's a bit more ambiguous than that because the hardware might say,
"...But you weren't supposed to submit that combination of graphics
requests!"
The real point is that when the recriminations start, there is
plenty of blame to go around, and at least _part_ of it spills in
the direction of the hardware.
3. Interactions with hardware are the prime place of vulnerability.
If the hardware outright sucks, you can't have robust results.
If the hardware is of dubious provenance, you can't rely on it for
anything terribly "life-critical," and that is indeed true for a
whole lot of PC hardware.
4. There Is No Rule 4.
5. It's still not evident from what you described that Linux itself
had any problem at all.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
"Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it
every six months." - Oscar Wilde
------------------------------
From: "D. D. Brierton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How can one app crashing bring down whole system?
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:54:21 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Tony Lawrence"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> X isn't Linux.
True. But then if one app is not meant to be able to bring down
another, why is it that a badly behave X app can bring X itslef to its
knees? If generally one app crashing/hanging whatever doesn't affect
the others, and X is itself just more apps I don't understand how
Netscpae and Mozilla manage to so effectively hose a work session.
> And even though you think you couldn't CTRL-ALT-F1, you probably
> could:
>
> You need to have run "savetextmode" BEFORE you have a problem.
> Therefore, the obvious thing to do is to put it in one of the startup
> scripts. Then, if you are locked in X, do the CTRL-ALT-F1 and then:
>
> press CTRL-U and then CTRL-J.
>
> Login, taking it on faith that the "Password" prompt will be displayed
> even though you can't see it. It wouldn't hurt to count to three after
> typing your "root" just to give it time to come up. Press enter a few
> times, and then carefully type "textmode"
> (again, surrounded by CTRL-J's) to restore your screen.
>
> (If you were already logged in on F1, skip the login- duh!)
Thanks for the tip. When you say I should put "savetextmode" in one of
the startup scripts do you mean one of mine (me qua user) or in one of
the systen startup scripts?
Best,
Darren
--
======================================================================
D. D. Brierton Department of Philosophy, University of Edinburgh
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cogsci.ed.ac.uk/~ddb
======================================================================
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Misc Digest
******************************
