Linux-Misc Digest #177, Volume #26 Sun, 29 Oct 00 08:13:01 EST
Contents:
Re: Red Hat on Sparc - Questions (John Hasler)
Re: Linux vs Windows 2000 for a statewide computer system? (Byron A Jeff)
Printing the addressbook in netscape ("Rudy Tuypens")
Re: Triple boot with NT in second drive ("Rudy Tuypens")
Problems formatting SCSI hard drive (Gregory Propf)
Re: Gnome Panel Crash in RH 6.2 (ray)
Re: Nameserver IP update ("Micer")
Registered Linux User? ("Micer")
Re: Registered Linux User? (Andreas =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=E4h=E4ri?=)
boot sector virus after installation?!? ("gina")
SENDMAIL has no timeout? ("Micer")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Red Hat on Sparc - Questions
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:00:50 GMT
Jabes123 writes:
> I am thinking of wiping out my hard drives and installing Solaris and
> StarOffice and being done with it...
Why not try Debian? With Debian non-Intel architectures are not
afterthoughts.
www.debian.org
--
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Byron A Jeff)
Subject: Re: Linux vs Windows 2000 for a statewide computer system?
Date: 29 Oct 2000 06:50:40 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Gary Carlson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
-I need help in making a decision whether our statewide (several hundred
-users spread out geographically over the entire state) should opt for a
-Linux OS or a Windows OS. I serve on the steering committee for the
-program. We currently use OS/2 as our OS, but intend to migrate off.
-The application software itself is being rewritten in JAVA.
There seems to be a couple of pluses right off the bat. Since the current OS
is OS/2, there is not an actual nor perceived legacy committment to one or
the other choices yet. And Java can be system neutral.
-
-The application is question is the Wisconsin Circuit Court Automation
-Program (CCAP). Local users (for the most part, clerks of court,
-although also judges, registers in probate and others) input data on new
-case filings, court hearings, scheduling calendars, juror information,
-and dispositions. Interfaces with other agencies, such as the district
-attorneys, departments of revenue and transportation, etc., either exist
-or are in the planning stages for the transfer of data. Local data is
-transmitted on a hourly basis to the state capitol in Madison. The
-database is obviously huge. We maintain a website for access to a
-mirror site with the public data on a near statewide basis at
-http://ccap.courts.state.wi.us - the website is averaging 250,000 hits
-per day at last count.
Sounds like an excellent system.
-
-In addition to the CCAP programming, our users also need an office suite
-for word processing, spreadsheets, etc. Judges have software that
-enables them to have court reporters provide "realtime" translation of
-court proceedings to their notebooks. Email and internet access
-(Netscape) is available for all users. In local court offices, public
-terminals are made available free for users to access the local county
-database.
Questions: What system does the realtime translation software run on? And are
the judges notebooks subject to this Linux/Windows decision?
-
-Disclaimer:
-
-1. Please don't let this thread degenerate into an "I hate windows" or
-"I hate linux" mentality. This is a real decision that will have to be
-made and I need real answers based on fact.
You'd probably get such a thread if you had posted it to comp.os.linux.advocacy
because that's what they do. But be forewarned that since you posted to a
linux newsgroup, you'll generally get information posted with a Linux slant.
-2. I am a circuit judge in Wisconsin; I am fairly competent on the
-computer but certainly not a programmer; please bear with any perceived
-ignorance on my part. I have read a fair amount of the posts on this NG
-already. If you have questions I can try to answer them.
-
-Questions:
-
-1. Some of our users are worried about going to Linux. They fear a
-learning curve exaggerated by the fact that those who own home computers
-are most likely on WinXX and transference of skills will be minimal.
-What do you believe the average computer user (the ones who go to
-BestBuy or Gateway Country to buy a home computer) will experience in a
-shift to Linux?
A couple of things:
1) As pointed out in (2) below, they won't have the exact same applications
they run at home. Many novice and some intermediate users associate Word
with wordprocessing, Excel with spreadsheets, etc. Meaning that any other
software that performs simular tasks will never be "just right".
2) Some look an feel issues will be a bit different. Little things like the
fact that KDE doesn't require the user to double click on a icon takes some
getting used to. Or as someone else pointed out, many of the well ingrained
keyboard shortcuts will be missing.
However as I pointed out above since the system is currently running on
OS/2, the userbase should at least be aware of such differences.
-
-2. They are also concerned that going to Linux will create a wall
-between them and other programs perceived to be beneficial that will
-only be available on WinXX. From the state's point of view, this may be
-good because we prohibit the downloading to or loading onto the state
-computers programs other than those provided. What has been your
-experience in the availability of new and exciting programs?
The availablity of new windows software is obviously an issue. New linux
software is rampant.
BTW if you wish for your users not to download and use new Linux software
it's easily done by mounting the users' directories without exec privileges.
The can download new software, but they can't run it from their home
directories. This sets up a mechanism where new software can be managed and
not executed completely unsupervised.
-
-3. Are there WinXX emulators that will allow us to use programs we
-already have, such as the court reporter software (CaseViewII by
-Stenograph) or legal research programs (WestLaw, LOIS), or will going to
-Linux require us to abandon those programs? How difficult are
-workarounds?
Linux's primary Windows emulator is Wine (www.winehq.com). Be forewarned that
it's a perpetual work in progress that does some activities well, and fails
on others. Wine actually emulates Windows so that Windows isn't required to
run the application.
The best machine emulator is VMWare. Instead of emulating the OS, VMWare
emulates the underlaying machine. This means that you'd have to install
windows in VMWare in order to get access to the applications.
Wine would require extensive testing of software. VMWare works well but
requires an investment for both it and the copy of Windows that it runs.
Another possibility would be to run a Windows Application Terminal Server
using Citrix Java client for display. The terminal server would be an
actual windows box that allows for multiple users to run windows applications.
They least stable possibility is to run dual boot actually switching between
OSes to get to the needed windows applications.
Note that costwise everything other than Wine requires Windows proper and its
associated costs.
The ideal solution for legal research would be to move to a web based solution
where an internet server is contacted for the information. You may want to
check to see if Internet based versions of the software are available.
-
-4. Is Linux stable enough to be able to handle a network of several
-hundred users, potentially over a thousand in a couple of years, spread
-out over hundreds of miles across Wisconsin (we have 72 counties, 69 of
-which are currently using all or part of CCAP)?
Yes. Given proper hardware, proper installation, and at least a modicum of
support.
-
-5. Is Linux, in the long run, really cost effective? Moving to Win2000
-would result in a financial hit to our program of $4.4 million
-"initially" and, of course, ties us to Microsoft. But is Linux really
-that robust that it is going to be around into the future, or are we
-just getting into another IBM OS/2 situation? (BTW, when we first went
-into OS/2 it was because we needed multitasking and Windows--at that
-stage--just didn't cut the mustard--but let's not talk about whether
-going to OS/2 initially was good, bad or ugly.)
This is where Open Source helps. Since everything you'll use is available at
the source level, It'll be possible to maintain and extend your software as
necessary as time progresses. You'll have no dependancy on a particular outfit
for updates.
That's of course the most scary idea about Microsoft. Being committed to them
means that you are subject to their whims. For example Windows 3.1 and 3.11
are flat out not supported anymore. In less than 10 years they've been
abandonded. And if you remember the transision wasn't easy.
However with the addition of a couple of libraries (that by default I don't
load), I can still run libc4 a.out applications from 1992 under Linux kernel
1.0.9. In fact if I got desparate enough, I could actually download a
Slackware/RedHat CD from that era and install it.
OpenSource frees the support issue. If everyone else turns in a direction
not of your liking, you can generally stay the course without too much
hassle.
-
-6. Have there been Linux compatibility problems with any particular
-hardware, particularly IBM (desktops, notebooks) and Hewlett-Packard
-(printers), that I should be aware of?
Linux incompatibilities general come with peripherals. And you'll have to
check each one individually. And in almost every case where Linux is
incompatible it's because the hardware manufacturer refuses to release
the interface specification for the device.
If I remember correctly (IIRC) IBM Mwave modems currently have no driver.
-
-7. Our techies are encouraging the use of Linux, but admit that going
-to Win2000 would probably make their jobs easier at this point. Their
-concern is more "down the road" and getting tied into Microsoft. Are
-these legitimate concerns?
Yes. see above.
Question: Will your techies be the ones setting up and maintaining the systems?
If so then this is a very positive point. No matter which route you go there
will be a lot of work, and quite a bit of frustration. It's the nature of the
beast. However if your support community is committed, it makes the
transition much more manageable.
-
-8. Some members of our steering committee have suggested that moving to
-Linux is okay because even if it doesn't work out for some reason, it
-isn't a big deal to shift over to Win2000 later on. The reason is that
-our application is written in JAVA which, theoretically, is OS
-transparent. But I also have heard the Microsoft has its own version of
-JAVA and I'm concerned about having to rewrite hundreds of lines of code
-to work with MS if that is the ultimate result. Would it be that
-difficult?
I'd ask two questions first: 1) is there a publicly available specification for MS C#?
Two is there a publicly available implementation that's not done by
MS. Sun Java has both which means they are committed to their spec and one
isn't dependant on Sun for the system.
If not, I wouldn't even consider rewriting to C#.
BTW I disagree with your members on this point. If it's clear that Linux
is currently unable to cover all of the tasks required of the system, and
Windows 2000 can, then you choose the solution that can solve the problem, not
setup Linux to fail, only to be "rescued" by MS. It's too much of a time and
effort investment not to make the right decision from the jump.
-
-9. Are there other issues that I don't even know about or think about
-that you think I should know before this decision is made? If so,
-please tell me. If you have additional resources that you tick would be
-valuable, please tell me. I've already tracked several other Linux
-newsgroups and read several FAQ.
My take on it is that Linux can work in this system in general. The only real
pitfall is the specific Microsoft based apps your folks really need. A careful
investigation of Wine, VMWare, or switching to internet based interfaces will
need to be examined in those cases.
But don't fall into the trap of thinking that because you won't have as large
a capital outlay, that you'll then be able skimp on the setup and maintinance
costs. Some reinvestment of some of those dollars to ease the transition
(such as replacing equipment that is unsupported, training of users on the
new technology, and training of users on the new technology [important enough
to repeat]) will go a long long way in creating a success. Also if you
decide the Linux route, it would be wise to commit to a Linux expert during
the setup and planning phases.
Remember that using Open Source software and data formats gives you the
freedom from the market dragging your system around by its nose.
Good Luck in your decision, and please let us know what's decided and how it
turns out.
BAJ
------------------------------
From: "Rudy Tuypens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Printing the addressbook in netscape
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:07:59 +0100
Hey,
1 How can I print my address book in Netscape (linux version)?
2 Is Suse Linux a good linux version (I can buy a 6 CD-ROM box for a good
price)? Until now I found that Red Hat is - without any doubt - the best
linux version (between Mandrake, Open Linux Caldera & Red hat)
Thank in advance
------------------------------
From: "Rudy Tuypens" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Triple boot with NT in second drive
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 13:21:52 +0100
Hey,
A very good solution to your problem is BOOTMAGIC (with Partion Magic) from
POWERQUEST.
Rudy
Brendan Heading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, BO
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
> >Hi all,
> >
> >I have a PC running Caldera Linux and Win98(dual boot) with "grub" as my
> >boot loader. Not iam planning to have another HDD with WinNT installed in
> >it. Could you please advice me how i can do that and whether to use
"grub"
> >or NT as my boot loader.
>
> I found it easiest to do this with (spit) the NT boot loader and Lilo;
> clean and flawless, and it gives you a natty menu.
>
> There is a mini-Howto explaining in detail how it is done. Basically you
> edit your lilo.conf so that the bootsector goes onto the first sector of
> the partition (NOT the master boot record). Then you peel off that
> sector and write it into a file. A quick modification to NT's "boot.ini"
> file allows you to have a third menu option which loads in the boot
> sector and kicks off Lilo.
>
> --
> Brendan Heading, Belfast, Northern Ireland
>
> T�s maith leath na hoibre...
------------------------------
From: Gregory Propf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.admin
Subject: Problems formatting SCSI hard drive
Date: 28 Oct 2000 16:11:09 -0400
I have an old Mac with a 1 gig SCSI drive. I recently moved it into an
intel Linux machine and decided to reformat it for Linux. I made a
partition table on it with fdisk and then I tried to check it for
badblocks. This caused a kernel panic repeatedly. Then I just tried to
just build a filesystem without doing the read-write badblocks check
(but still using a read-only test). This seemed to work and I was able
to mount the new filesystem. I then tested the disk by copying a few
large files over and checking their md5sums to see if they had made it
over OK. They did not, the md5sums didn't match, indicating that the
files had become corrupted.
My question is: Am I doing this right at all? I don't really know much
about SCCI disks under Linux. Is it OK to use standard fdisk or do I
need a special formatting tool just to SCSI disks? What about building
the filesystem and checking for badblocks? Any special tools needed
there? The disk is pretty old and might have gone bad but I need to know
if I'm jumping through all the right software hoops before I throw the
disk out - Greg
------------------------------
From: ray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Gnome Panel Crash in RH 6.2
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 12:19:09 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I have a really annoying crash of the gnome control panel. THis does
> not take the X-Server down but will hang some of the apps I may have
> running (example is running BlueJ java IDE which was started through the
> GNOME menu). I usually have the start panel set to auto hide and when
> it crashes it remains visible and I can kill the panel by right clicking
> and choosing annihilate. So far looking through the processes (ps -ef)
> I have not identified the process which is crashing so I can restart it.
> Any ideas on where I should look? Thanks Ray
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
That annoyed me too, for a while. Simply typing panel & in an xterm
will get it back, but the crash is soooo inconvenient. The issue was
apparently corrected by the developers, but I don't know when or where.
I haven't had it in many motnhs now. I stay up to date from helix gnome,
and it got fixed somewhere along the line. Might try upgrading the stuff
to newer versions, maybe. I wish I knew more about the exact libs, or
whatever, that got fixed, but I don't.
--
Ray R. Jones
Errors have been made. Others will be blamed.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
HTTP://www.raymondjones.net
------------------------------
From: "Micer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Nameserver IP update
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:39:59 -0800
I assume you mean Linux Router Project. Seems to me you could use something
from www.dynu.com (Dynamic DNS registration) and throw away your bind, but
then I'm not really familiar with LRP. Just pay someone else about $25 a
year to do your DNS for you. Why even bother with bind if someone else can
do it for you very economically? There must be 20 or 30 Dynamic DNS
offerings on the web at initial count, however DYNU was the only one I've
bumped into so far that has a Linux client for auto-registration of IP (most
seemed to focus on Windows clients).
PS: maybe I'm off track - I'm still getting familiar with all this stuff!
Micer
P. Ekkebus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>Hi
>
>We have a domain with a dynamic ip number.
>Our gateway is a router (lrp) and a bind is running
>on a internal server.
>And we need to change the external ip of the router in the
>dns zone files on the server. What is the best way to do this?
>
>
>
>--
> Groeten,
> Piet.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> _
> __ (_)
> / / __ __ __ __ __ __ __
> / /__ / / / /|/ / / /_/ / \ \/ /
>/____/ /_/ /_/ |_/ /_____/ /_/\_\
------------------------------
From: "Micer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Registered Linux User?
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 04:45:42 -0800
What on earth is a Registered Linux User? (Registered with who? And for what
reason?).
Micer.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andreas =?iso-8859-1?Q?K=E4h=E4ri?=)
Subject: Re: Registered Linux User?
Date: 29 Oct 2000 13:49:40 +0100
In article <YRUK5.17659$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Micer wrote:
>What on earth is a Registered Linux User? (Registered with who? And for what
>reason?).
>
>Micer.
>
>
<URL:http://counter.li.org/>
/A (registered Linux user 48810)
--
Andreas K�h�ri, Uppsala University, Sweden
========================================================================
"If you leave now, you're going to miss the real experience."
-- Richard M. Stallman, Stockholm 1986. Visit www.gnu.org
------------------------------
From: "gina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: boot sector virus after installation?!?
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 21:05:10 +0800
Hi,
I'm a newbie in Linux, pls help.
I have just installed SuSE Linux on a partition in my WINNT4.0 Server
harddisk. LILO was installed on a floopy to boot Linux from there.
Installation has completed successfully.
However, when I tried to boot to Linux for the first time, the system
prompted a boot sector virus and prevented me from going further. No virus
information was provided. I'm not sure if this is a CMOS message or Linux
message, but a funny sound was played from the system.
When I booted into Winnt, no virus was informed.
Pls help as to how I can remove the virus or is this a false alarm?
Thanks!
------------------------------
From: "Micer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: SENDMAIL has no timeout?
Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2000 05:02:02 -0800
During my Linux training I have installed sendmail, but I don't have a
permanent internet connection, (I use a dial-up ISP via PPP). Whenever I
reboot my Linux Redhat 6.0 box it hangs forever at the "Starting SENDMAIL"
message, and never says [OK]. But the moment I connect my default gateway to
the web (another Linux box running RedHat 6.0, and NAT via ipchains) then
SENDMAIL picks up and loads, so that the Linux boot continues on
successfully.
I checked this out on the web and found that many other people have the
problem that sendmail demands a valid nameserver IP in resolv.conf.
But since my home Linux base is for training and setting up customer systems
to ship out, I don't have a permanent nameserver IP (my NAT box is not
always fired up). I tried adding 127.0.0.1 to the resolv.conf but that
didn't help.
Is there someplace in sendmail that I can set a timeout? I don't really care
sometimes if sendmail doesn't work as long as the machine boots without
intervention. At other times I will want sendmail to work so I can play with
it, ie: I want both.
Thanks,
Micer
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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