Linux-Misc Digest #383, Volume #26               Sat, 25 Nov 00 06:13:09 EST

Contents:
  Re: MP3 players for Linux and napster clients ("Ashwin Bihari")
  Re: LILO boor menu - 2 boots for Linux ("Ashwin Bihari")
  Re: playing video shuts down ppp (J Sloan)
  Re: compiling linux software ("Ashwin Bihari")
  redhat wont boot
  Re: bash scripting question (J Sloan)
  Looking for scsi parts. (B'ichela)
  Storage Plus SP1300-R Scsi Card, What driver to use? (B'ichela)
  Re: bash scripting question (Manfred Bartz)
  Re: RH6.2 login is now broken - how to fix? ( Black Dragon)
  Re: bash scripting question (Erik Max Francis)
  Re: suid (John Hasler)
  linux operating system installable files (nitin sharma)
  Re: bash scripting question (J Sloan)
  Re: Linux / uClinux on Palm Vx ? ("Mick")
  Re: Software RAID (John Nelson)
  Re: Packet sniffer? (E J)
  true type fonts (mark)
  Re: true type fonts (Robert Kiesling)
  rescue boot disk ("Anson Ho")
  Re: rescue boot disk (Robert Kiesling)
  gimp-print won't configure (John Thompson)
  Getting back into Linux ("Martin")

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ashwin Bihari" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: MP3 players for Linux and napster clients
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:21:31 GMT

Most definetly, for a graphical MP3 player, check out XMMS which is a
Linux clone of Winamp. You can get a hold of it at www.xmms.org.

For a Napster interface, there are a few choices. I've tried GNapster and
KNapster. Go to www.linuxapps.com and check these 2 out there and others.
Regards

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ralph Blach"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I am a newbie on this.  are there any graphical MP3 players for linux?
> Are there any graphical Napster interface for Linux?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> --
> Ralph "Chip" Blach KF4WBK Chapel Hill, North Carolina
> 
> 
>

------------------------------

From: "Ashwin Bihari" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: LILO boor menu - 2 boots for Linux
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:24:40 GMT

Jeff,
        "nonfb" means Non FrameBuffer. This is basically a server that runs and
it looks it is incompatible with your video card and as such X-Windows
isn't running. But with it disabled, X is using a different server and
that seems to be working fine. If things are fine with the nonfb option,
then go ahead and continue using it..Regards


In article <8v3bqo$rp6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Jeff Chandler"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hello all,
> 
> I have a question, hopefully someone will be kind enough to answer. Just
> bought Linux Mandrake 7.2 and installed onmy Cyrix PR233 MMX system and
> in the LILO boot menu that comes up, there are 2 different  boot kernels
> there.
> 
> 1. vmlinux - normal graphic boot
> 2. vmlinux-nonfb - text boot
> 
> now from the 1st boot option (which is default after installatin) I
> cannot get the Xwindows to come up after boot completes. Boot goes just
> fine and I see all the boot messages but the video goes dead, monitor
> light goes amber and never comes back after trying to go to Xwindows.
> However, in option 2, everything is fine. What does the nonfb mean in
> this?? Could this be related to the age of my system and the hardware? I
> run S3 VirgeDX video card with 4 meg of memory. Darn it was great when I
> bought it and put it together (so stop laughing!!)
> 
> Thanks in advance, Jeff
> 
>

------------------------------

From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: 
comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: playing video shuts down ppp
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:27:33 GMT

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> hi
>
> i regularly watch .mpg and .rm movies on linux while surfing the net.
> i've noticed that when watching movies, i receive almost no data from my
> ppp interface. i stop playing the movies, and i start receiving data as
> normal. i have a dial up account, using ppp-2.3.11 and interface
> /dev/ppp0.

There is a program I used to use in my ppp days, which
gives the modem serial interrupt the highest priority.
It's called irqtune -

http://www.best.com/~cae/irqtune/

That would probably help in cases like yours.

Also, what kernel are you running? If not sure,
what distribution of Linux are you using?

jjs


------------------------------

From: "Ashwin Bihari" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: compiling linux software
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:28:04 GMT

Firstly, the files that ends in ".tar.gz" or ".tgz" are compressed
TARBALLS of the source files. What you do is to first uncompress them, so
go into a temporary directory and type in "tar -zxvf filename.tar.gz" or
"tar -zxvf filename.tgz" and the contents of that tarball will be
extracted.

Read any README/INSTALL files that were included with that kit. Usually
to compile these programs, you run "./configure" and "./make", then as
root you do "./make install" and it installs the program into
/usr/local/bin so that it can be run as any user.

You don't need to create RPM files if you didn't files as RPM's to beign
with. RPM is just a way of transmitting files, just like ".tgz" et
el..Regards


In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> im new to linux, i currently using redhat 7.0 and the kde desktop, i
> have downloaded many software for linux but they all come in ".gz" 
> ".tgz" and i dont know how to compile these programs, and make rpm 
> packages from it.
> 
> --
> Posted via CNET Help.com http://www.help.com/

------------------------------

From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: redhat wont boot
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:30:08 -0000

i recently copied my . & .. files to /dev/null now my system wont load i 
keep getting error messages that drop into the shell for maintenace,it 
keep saying /dev/null is a directory and wont load ......how can i resolve 
this rpoblem so my system will boot accordingly..........

--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/

------------------------------

From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: bash scripting question
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:32:23 GMT

Manfred Bartz wrote:

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > i need to execute a process and assign it's pid to a variable.
> > eg. if i run xchat, say, and it has pid 1234, how can i store this value
> > in a variable when the process begins execution?
>
> immediately after you have started a program, its PID is stored in the
> shell variable $!

At least on my bash (as well as in perl) the variable is "$$".

Perhaps Manfred is thinking of ksh or something?

jjs


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware
Subject: Looking for scsi parts.
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:09:48 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

        I have an old Storage Dimensions box that holds four Full
hight HDs, Long ago before I got it. you could set the box to a
Scsi-ID and the drives  had Scsi-LUNS. These luns were created by
converting the actual Drive scsi addresses into LUNS by the card
inside the box. When I got the box the original SCSI-ID to Lun card
was lost and the owner never found it.
        I am looking for a replacement that can be retrofitted in to
do the same thing! Either the original Storage Dimensions card or a
generic card.
        What I need is the formal name of this type of thing and who
sells it, either new or used, prefferaby USED. This thing is used under
Slackware Linux 3.9 with a Adaptec
AVA-2825 Vesa Local Buss Scsi host adaptor. Right now the drives are
individualy set to  seperate Scsi IDs using a standard 7 Scsi Device
50 ping cable with Centronics-50 pin connectors on each end.
        Due to the fact that I running out of Scsi-IDs I REALLY want
this  darn adaptor!
        My card is already set under Linux to probe for Scsi LUNs and
I want to use them! Original Dials on back of box allowed me to set
Scsi Ids without opening box. I need those cables too! Silly 9 pin IDE
plug assemblies Plugs are actually a 3 x 3 matrix! Dials still there but
unused right now.
        I appoligize this is off-topic but I really would like to
restore the box to its original  setup. You may post here or email me
with info if you desire.
        I only ask  here as I know Linux people are very resourceful
in finding such items. Being a heavy Linux user I am asking for help
from others who have the knowledge of where to look!

-- 

                        B'ichela


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,linux.dev.scsi
Subject: Storage Plus SP1300-R Scsi Card, What driver to use?
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:30:06 -0500
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

        Before one suggests I contact the Manufactuer I tried, the
company is out of business! This is a 16 bit Scsi-1 or Scsi-2 card
that supports Syncronous Scsi. I have the Msdos drivers disk but I
have NO idea on what driver to use under Linux! Looking at the card
itself shows a VLSI chip with the following numbers.
SP1300/16
CQ09385
609-3400537
9145R

The other VLSI chip has the numbers
SPC2052F0A
F09 150
This chip I believe is the floppy controller chip.

        Card defaults to the following address according to the
manual for the Scsi side.
0x330-0x33F I/O port
0xc8000 Memory address
DMA channel 07
IRQ 15. (that I KNOW lands on my Ne2000 card, can change to IRQ 14!

        Can anyone give me a clue! I really want to try this in my
small workstation so I can plug in a bernoulli box or a few Scsi Hard
drives I have laying around. Do I have to play with ALL of the scsi
drivers as modules in my kernel? My tiny workstation is IDE based
right now.



-- 

                        B'ichela


------------------------------

Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: bash scripting question
From: Manfred Bartz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:49:01 GMT

J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Manfred Bartz wrote:
> 
> > immediately after you have started a program, its PID is stored in the
> > shell variable $!
> 
> At least on my bash (as well as in perl) the variable is "$$".

I don't know perl (and want to keep it that way) but in bash $$ stores
the PID of the current shell.

Some other useful bash variables:

$# number of of arguments given
$? exit status of previous command
$- options given to shell on invocation

> Perhaps Manfred is thinking of ksh or something?

AFAIK, bash uses the same conventions for shell variables as ksh.

-- 
Manfred


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( Black Dragon )
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: RH6.2 login is now broken - how to fix?
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:50:52 GMT


On Fri, 24 Nov 2000 19:29:01 GMT in comp.os.linux.setup,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> `jtnews' said:


: How does one get hacked in redhat 6.2 when you have ipchains up and
: running blocking ports 0-1023, 5432, 6000, and 8080?


Computer security is essentially a living, breathing thing, you must keep
up with the constant change. Good url in another post in this thread.


-- 
Black Dragon

Sign The Linux Driver Petition:
http://www.libralinux.com/petition.english.html

------------------------------

From: Erik Max Francis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: bash scripting question
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:17:18 -0800

J Sloan wrote:

> At least on my bash (as well as in perl) the variable is "$$".

No, that's the pid of the process the script is running as.  He wanted
the process of the last job that the script fired off into the
background, which is indeed $!.

-- 
 Erik Max Francis / [EMAIL PROTECTED] / http://www.alcyone.com/max/
 __ San Jose, CA, US / 37 20 N 121 53 W / ICQ16063900 / &tSftDotIotE
/  \ There is _never_ no hope left.  Remember.
\__/ Louis Wu
    The laws list / http://www.alcyone.com/max/physics/laws/
 Laws, rules, principles, effects, paradoxes, etc. in physics.

------------------------------

From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: suid
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 04:33:28 GMT

Bob Hauck writes:
> Write a C wrapper that cleans the environment and calls the script.  This
> is harder than it might appear to get right.

Yes.  It isn't just the environment: there is a race condition.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI

------------------------------

Date: 25 Nov 2000 05:30:29 +0000
From: nitin sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: linux operating system installable files
Crossposted-To: 
comp.os.linux.powerpc,comp.os.linux.development.system,de.comp.os.unix.linux.misc,no.it.os.unix.linux.diverse,uk.comp.os.linux

kindly specify the files which i should download for the installing linux on my system 
from the corresponding sites.

linuxppc from http://download.sourceforge.net/mirrors/linuxppc/

yellowdog linux from ftp://ftp.yellowdoglinux.com/pub/yellowdog/

debian linux from 
http://www.debian.org/distrib/ftplist

after downloading the files how do you install the operating system on the target 
system? Do u need to write the files on a CD before installation or there is some 
other method?



Chequemail.com - a free web based e-mail service that also pays!!!
http://www.chequemail.com

------------------------------

From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.admin,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: bash scripting question
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 06:01:17 GMT

Manfred Bartz wrote:

> I don't know perl (and want to keep it that way) but in bash $$ stores
> the PID of the current shell.

Damn, you are right.

Too much holiday cheer here, I guess.

> Some other useful bash variables:
>
> $# number of of arguments given
> $? exit status of previous command
> $- options given to shell on invocation

nods

> > Perhaps Manfred is thinking of ksh or something?
>
> AFAIK, bash uses the same conventions for shell variables as ksh.

Bourne-like shells generally do, but ksh has some oddities.

Or bash has some niceties...

jjs



------------------------------

From: "Mick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: 
comp.sys.palmtops.pilot,comp.sys.palmtops,alt.comp.sys.palmtops,alt.comp.sys.palmtops.pilot
Subject: Re: Linux / uClinux on Palm Vx ?
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 14:49:09 -0800


Peter da Silva <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8vhnlo$3i2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Arctic Storm  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >How did you do it? Can you restore Palm OS afterwards? What can you do

Try also:-

http://www.showmelinux.com/112000/feature2.html
and
http://www.agendacomputing.com/

Very interesting...



------------------------------

From: John Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.hardware,alt.linux
Subject: Re: Software RAID
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:14:42 -0800

This one time, at band camp, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
said...

> Tut tut.  No, it doesn't slow it appreciably, provided the disk writes
> are on two separate controllers (ide).  Yes, two commands will be

This is the only "right" way to do RAID1 on IDE/ATA disk drives. Otherwise, if you put 
both drives on the same channel and the master dies, the array dies. Rather defeats 
the 
purpose.



------------------------------

From: E J <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Packet sniffer?
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 07:48:20 GMT

Get ethereal.  It is on the Redhat 7.0 Powertools CD, or download from
the ethereal or Redhat7.0 mirrored website.


John English wrote:

> Can anyone recommend a utility to let me snoop network packets under
> Linux? I'm trying to solve a problem on my home network (machine A
> can ping machine B but B can't ping A). Having replaced cables and
> network cards, I'm completely baffled and I need something low-level
> to find out what's actually going across the network...
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>  John English              | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  Senior Lecturer           | http://www.it.bton.ac.uk/staff/je
>  Dept. of Computing        | ** NON-PROFIT CD FOR CS STUDENTS **
>  University of Brighton    |    -- see http://burks.bton.ac.uk
> -----------------------------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: true type fonts
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 00:34:57 -0800

Hi all

a newbie question, what do i have to do to get true type fonts to work
in my system?
i running redhat 6.1

thanx
mark


------------------------------

Subject: Re: true type fonts
From: Robert Kiesling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 08:44:00 GMT


mark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi all
> 
> a newbie question, what do i have to do to get true type fonts to work
> in my system?
> i running redhat 6.1

xfsft or xfstt, whichever's easist to find.  Instructions are in the
packages.  Also the font related docs on (again)
http://www.linuxdoc.org/.

-- 
Robert Kiesling
Linux FAQ Maintainer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mainmatter.com/linux-faq/toc.html  http://www.mainmatter.com/
---
Tired of spam?  Please forward messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

------------------------------

From: "Anson Ho" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: rescue boot disk
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 15:57:22 +0800

Hi All,

     How can I make a rescue boot disk to /dev/fd0 ? I'm using RH6.2.


Thanks

Anson



------------------------------

Subject: Re: rescue boot disk
From: Robert Kiesling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 08:57:47 GMT

"Anson Ho" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi All,
> 
>      How can I make a rescue boot disk to /dev/fd0 ? I'm using RH6.2.

Theoretically, "dd if=/boot/<name-of-kernel-image> of=/dev/fd0".  In
practice, you also need to make sure that it's set for the correct
root device (read the rdev man page), and also that the kernel image
is constructed to boot from a floppy.  If not, then you'll need to
recompile a kernel, probably using "make bzImage."  Try booting with
the system's kernel image on the diskette before you go to all the
trouble, though.

Unless you meant a root/boot rescue-os-on-a-disk.  Then, look at the
docs on http://www.linuxdoc.org/.

-- 
Robert Kiesling
Linux FAQ Maintainer 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.mainmatter.com/linux-faq/toc.html  http://www.mainmatter.com/
---
Tired of spam?  Please forward messages to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

------------------------------

From: John Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: gimp-print won't configure
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:55:25 -0600

I just downloaded the gimp-print-4.0.2 and have been trying to
configure it to compile on my machine PII/350, RH v6.1 kernel
2.2.16 128MB RAM).  When I run ./configure it dies with the
following less-than-helpful message:

        [clip...]

checking for yacc... /usr/bin/yacc
checking whether to enable maintainer-specific portions of
Makefiles... no
checking for gimptool... /usr/bin/gimptool
checking for GIMP - version >= 1.0.0... no
*** Could not run GIMP test program, checking why...
*** The test program failed to compile or link. See the file
config.log for the
*** exact error that occured. This usually means GIMP was
incorrectly installed
*** or that you have moved GIMP since it was installed. In the
latter case, you
*** may want to edit the gimptool script: /usr/bin/gimptool
configure: error: Cannot find GIMP libs: Please run ldconfig as
root

For some reason, the script thinks I have a version of gimp older
than v1.00, but I don't:

[root@starfleet print-4.0.2]# gimptool --version
1.0.4
[root@starfleet print-4.0.2]# rpm -qa|grep gimp
gimp-libgimp-1.0.4-5
gimp-devel-1.0.4-5
gimp-1.0.4-5
gimp-manual-1.0.0-6
gimp-data-extras-1.0.0-4

As far as I can tell, I have the required packages installed,
gimp is at v1.04 (newer than 1.0.0 I think...) yet the configure
script doesn't recognize this.

The config.log file shows this:

        [clip...]

configure:1751: gcc -o conftest  -O2 -I/usr/X11R6/include
-I/usr/lib/glib/include   conftest.c  -L/usr/lib -lgimpui -lgimp
-
L/usr/X11R6/lib -lgtk -lgdk -rdynamic -lgmodule -lglib -ldl
-lXext -lX11 -lm 1>&5
In file included from /usr/include/bits/posix1_lim.h:126,
                 from /usr/include/limits.h:30,
                 from
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/limits.h:117,
                 from
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/syslimits.h:7,
                 from
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/limits.h:11,
                 from /usr/lib/glib/include/glibconfig.h:13,
                 from /usr/include/glib.h:66,
                 from /usr/include/libgimp/gimp.h:23,
                 from configure:1693:
/usr/include/bits/local_lim.h:27: linux/limits.h: No such file or
directory
configure: failed program was:
#line 1688 "configure"

        [clip...]

Which made me go check to see if limits.h was missing, yet it
appears to exist in abundance:

[john@starfleet john]$ locate limits.h
/home/httpd/html/manual/vhosts/fd-limits.html
/usr/include/limits.h
/usr/include/kpathsea/c-limits.h
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/limits.h
/usr/lib/gcc-lib/i386-redhat-linux/egcs-2.91.66/include/syslimits.h
/usr/lib/bcc/include/asm/limits.h
/usr/lib/bcc/include/limits.h
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.005/i386-linux/Tk/pTk/compat/limits.h
/usr/i386-glibc20-linux/include/limits.h
/usr/i386-glibc20-linux/include/linux/limits.h

Gimp runs fine; I doubt it is incorrectly installed.  I haven't
moved gimp since installing it.  I've run ldconfig as root with
no joy.

What am I missing here?
 
-- 


-John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

------------------------------

From: "Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Getting back into Linux
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:45:37 -0000

I have Linux-Mandrake 7.1 installed on a 25 GB partition on my 30 GB hard
drive.  The Linux partition is on hda2 which contains hda5 (/), hda6 (/usr),
hda7 (/root) and hda8 (swap).

The distribution is from the downloaded ISO images. I might add, tjhat when
I installed Linux-Mandrake from these, it quite simply refused to create a
boot floppy for me, always giving me an error message (which I can't
remember).  Even after I installed, I tried to create a boot floppy, and
still it wouldn't create it.

I installed a CD rewriter (hdc). This worked fine in both Windows Me (hda1 -
5 GB) and in Linux, though X-CD-Roast was pretty frightening with its
insistence on specifiying a partition for the ripped files.  Also, when I
tried to run it as non-root, I got "permission denied."

That's the background.  Here's the point.  yesterday, when I booted into
Linux, a lot of messages were displayed, as normal, but the boot finished
with

   VFS: Cannot open root device 03:05
   Kernel panic: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on 03:95

I have another Linux installation on my SCSI disc, which I was about to
decommision (sda - 4.3 GB, Linux is on sda2 - 2 GB), and I can boot into
that from a boot floppy.  Unfortunately, when I try:

   mount   /dev/hda6   /mnt/new

it says "/dev/hda6 is not a block device" (or similar).

LILO has these options: linux   failsafe   windows   windows2   floppy

None of the non-Windows ones work.

Needless to say, I'd be extremely grateful for any assistance.  I'm having
to use Windows Me to send this, and I hate it!

I'm sure the data are still on my Linux partitions on hda2, I just need to
find a way to get to them.  I blame X-CD-Roast for this.

Martin






------------------------------


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