Linux-Misc Digest #632, Volume #26               Sun, 24 Dec 00 20:13:01 EST

Contents:
  Can't find library as user (Bob van der Poel)
  Need help in running ic over a remote X display. (Madhusudan Singh)
  TTY Login With Dynamic (Predefined) Password (Young4ert)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (Doink)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (Diinji)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (zz)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (Xippy)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (Deherrr)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (Bill Unruh)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (Bill Unruh)
  Re: Does killing processes leave hung resources? (Bill Unruh)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (John the Non-Baptist)
  Re: help-newbie-Storm Linux (Charles Young)
  Re: GNOME freeze on RH7.0 ("Scott M. Navarre")
  Re: Linuxgruven ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (email address here)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (Surch)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (Surch)
  Re: Palm emulators for Linux? (Stefan Braun)
  Re: how to detect when a CDROM is loaded? (Tom Hoffmann)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (John Hasler)
  Re: DVD software for Linux yet? (Hartmann Schaffer)
  Re: Where are the terminal TYPES set in Linux? (Eachep)
  Re: Embedded character (phil)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob van der Poel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Can't find library as user
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 14:47:23 -0700


I've never had this kind of problem and don't really know where to look
for an answer... I recently 'upgraded' my system to Mandrake 7.2. Now,
the application 'xmcd' will not run when I'm a user; it does run when I
logged in as root. 

        bob$ xmcd
        xmcd: can't load library 'libxalflaunch.so.0'

The library does exist, and it's permissions seem to be okay:

        bob $ ls /usr/lib/libxalfl* -l
        lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           22 Dec 10 07:44
/usr/lib/libxalflaunch.so.0 -> libxalflaunch.so.0.0.1*
        -rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root         5304 Oct  3 16:20
/usr/lib/libxalflaunch.so.0.0.1*

So, could a library calling this be the problem??? Any ideas
appreciated!

BTW, xmcd uses:

        [root@localhost xmcd]# ldd /usr/bin/X11/xmcd
        libXt.so.6 => /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib/libXt.so.6 (0x40015000)
        libX11.so.6 => /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib/libX11.so.6
(0x40053000)
        libc.so.5 => /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib/libc.so.5 (0x400e5000)
        libSM.so.6 => /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib/libSM.so.6 (0x401ae000)
        libICE.so.6 => /usr/i486-linux-libc5/lib/libICE.so.6
(0x401b6000)

What's even strange is that xmcd is a SUID program...hmmm, maybe it
doesn't get changed until after all the libraries are opened?


-- 
Bob van der Poel ** Wynndel, British Columbia, CANADA **
EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WWW:   http://users.uniserve.com/~bvdpoel


------------------------------

From: Madhusudan Singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mentor
Subject: Need help in running ic over a remote X display.
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 16:50:11 -0500

Hi
    I have a Linux (~Red Hat 6.1) machine in my office. IC (Mentor
Graphics) is installed on Sun workstations. I tried to run it remotely
after exporting display but the program quit after errors (see below).
    I think that it is a fonts problem. (I might be wrong on this). Any
advice on how to get IC running over the remote display would be
extremely welcome. The machine is on the LAN, so speed is (hopefully)
not a problem.

Thanks in advance,

Madhusudan Singh.

===================================================


bash-2.04$ ic
//  ICgraph  v8.7_2.4 (C2 p2027)  Mar  8 1999 09:03:44
//  EDDM  v8.6_2.6  Tue Oct  6 18:59:00 PDT 1998
//  Falcon Framework  v8.6_2.1 Tue Mar  16 17:21:48 PST 1999
//
//  Copyright (c) Mentor Graphics Corporation, 1982-1998, All Rights
Reserved.
//                       UNPUBLISHED, LICENSED SOFTWARE.
//            CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY INFORMATION WHICH IS THE
//          PROPERTY OF MENTOR GRAPHICS CORPORATION OR ITS LICENSORS.
//
//  Mentor Graphics software executing under Sun SPARC Solaris.
//

//
// WARNING:    Font loading failed. Please see the following notes for
more info
rmation.
// NOTE:       Xhost            = 'pla.engin.umich.edu',
// NOTE:       Xserver          = 'guo.eecs.umich.edu',
// NOTE:       font name        = 'ic.icons',
// NOTE:       font package     = 'registry'.
// Fonts are configured incorrectly
// Cannot initialize device driver.
//  Error: Invalid font requested (from: Core/VFONT/vfont 09)
Getting traceback info ...
Unable to read ELF header section.
Unable to read ELF header section.
Unable to read ELF header section.
Unable to read ELF header section.
Unable to read ELF header section.
Unable to read ELF header section.
Unable to read ELF header section.
Traceback
Function Name+offset [PC] filename
=======================================================
core_traceback__Fv(0xeeb9301c, 0x0, 0xefffe090, 0xefffe038, 0x0,
0x39)+0x4  [pc
= 0xef239a5c] libbase_lib.so
core__xcpt_handler__FP11Core_statusP15Core_xcpt_hndlr(0x0, 0xefffe210,
0xef43df3
c, 0x109c620, 0xef259360, 0x109b2f0)+0x29c  [pc = 0xef236770]
libbase_lib.so
raise__15Core_xcpt_hndlrP11Core_statusQ215Core_xcpt_hndlr32Core_xcpt_hndlr_raise

_permission(0xef4ea4f4, 0x1, 0x0, 0x0, 0xeffff790, 0x0)+0x4c  [pc =
0xef25e830]
libbase_lib.so
ui__init__FiiP16Vdd__window_info(0xeffff810, 0x0, 0xef512ba0,
0x7fffffff, 0x7fff
ffff, 0x0)+0xf5c  [pc = 0xef43df48] libbase_lib.so
main(0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0)+0xfd4  [pc = 0x24e8b4] ic
bash-2.04$

------------------------------

From: Young4ert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: TTY Login With Dynamic (Predefined) Password
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:14:46 GMT

Hi,

For security purposes, I am interested in having the user's password 
automatically changed to a list of predefined password once the user has 
remotely logged on to the Linux machine.  In other words, the user has a 
list of his own (or a predefined) password and if s/he does a successfull 
login onto a Linux machine, the machine will automatically change his 
password to the one next on the (predefined) list.  If I am not mistaken, 
there should be such a package/script for Linux machine.

If you know of such a software/script package, please kindly post the 
pointer.  TIA.


------------------------------

From: Doink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:42:14 -0800

On 24 Dec 2000 11:51:22 GMT, Pineapple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>Companies which sell these softwares have to pay for the license 
>to use it, hence so have the home-users. I can't see how this excludes 
>linux-users somehow. 


They only have to pay if they believe the lie.  That you need a
license to build a DVD player.  No copyright.. No patent ..no problem!

Just reading stuff off the net allows you to know a lot about the
content scrambling system on the DVD.  That along with a good hard
look a few DVDs and the DVD is cracked!

I am hoping that some bright electronics maker builds a hardware
version of the Linux software player.  That would break the monopoly
the movie studios have on DVD players.  That would mean that the
functions of the players would be governed by the market and not by
the movie studios.


------------------------------

From: Diinji
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:47:03 -0800

On Sun, 24 Dec 2000 16:40:24 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rod
Smith) wrote:

>Rod Smith, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.rodsbooks.com
>Author of books on Linux & multi-OS configuration


Hey Ron  Just checked out your web page.  Does the newest DVD software
for Linux even use the stuff from DeCSS?  Just wondering.

Diinji




------------------------------

From: zz
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:50:13 -0800

On 24 Dec 2000 17:15:26 GMT, Pineapple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>.But its really great that intellectual property is free to steal and rip. 
>This really eases my mind, being a programmer and making my living doing 
>it. It's so nice to know that anyone can reverse-engineer my product and 
>rip it and use it for free. I'm sure there will be hundreds of programmers 
>and companies which will develop and distribute free (and therefor 
>unprofitable) software..


What PROPERTY?  You don't own anything if they can rip it!  You
probably think you own something but you probably don't.  What is it
that you own?

------------------------------

From: Xippy
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:53:04 -0800

On 24 Dec 2000 17:19:07 GMT, Pineapple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>Maybe because the manufacturer of the drive isn't responsible for your 
>choise of OS or compatibility of the drive you bought. 

Maybe I didn't sign an agreement with the manufacturer of the drive.
I don't owe anyone anything!  I can do what I want with it.



------------------------------

From: Deherrr
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 18:04:52 -0800

On Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:17:48 GMT, John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>What Compaq et al actually did was "clean-roomed"
>it.

They reverse-engineered it!  The technique of deniability is called
"clean-roomed".  One (non-compaq employee)/contractor looks at the
actual code from a dump of the BIOS and writes up a paper describing
it in detail, but without actual code references.  He then gives that
to another (non-compaq employee)/contractor to write a BIOS that does
the same thing.  Compaq of course has hired both these people so they
can deny having touched the actual code.  The knowledge has passed
through a clean room of deniability.

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh)
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: 24 Dec 2000 23:18:01 GMT

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Pineapple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>>Don't bother with non-free software.  Keep Linux DVD players free!

>I always wondered what gives a linux user a right not to pay for dvd-
>player, even through everyone else is paying for them ?

?? If someone supplies it for free why not use it. Linux users have no
more right to use commercial stuff for free than anyone else. But
theLinux community enjoys producing stuff that other OS users have to
pay for for free. Are you jealous?

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh)
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: 24 Dec 2000 23:25:27 GMT

In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Pineapple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

]>Wondering about the reason why Linux users won't pay for watching DVD
]>movies is not the question. The REAL question is why anybody MUST pay to
]>watch DVD movies. NOBODY SHOULD have to pay for watching DVD's contents,
]>or you aren't you already paying for the content (movie) itself ?

]You can't watch your laserdiscs or vhs-tapes for free. You also pay for 
]your cd-player, md-player and even for your c-casette deck. Where is it 

Noone has yet produced a free DVD reader. When they do, and if it is as
good as ones that cost money I am sure many will buy it. Furthermore all
linux users also buy their dvd disks just like everyone else. 

]defined that dvd sould be free ? Paying for dvd-content does give you a 
]right to own it and the media it's on - it doesn't include the license for 
]a playing software. 

No. The person who wrote the software gives that license. Or are you
trying to say that just because I have bought the DVD I am not allowed
to read the bytes off it? That the purchase of the DVD is different from
the purchase of the right to actually use and read the DVD? Weird.

]Also DVD-rom drive may include a software license for windows-software but 
]that doesn't include a right to use similliar software on another platform 
]or OS. DVD-decoding is a licenseable technique and isn't free. 

That license if for that particular program. It does not restict your
right to use other programs.  DVD decoding is NOT a licenseable
technique. DVD decoding is just reading it. This is like saying reading
the letters in a book is a licenseable product and that you must buy a
special license to read the letters even after you have purchased the
book. While there are people who might like this novel legal stance,
most of us are prefectly justified in treating it witht he contempt it
deserves.


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bill Unruh)
Subject: Re: Does killing processes leave hung resources?
Date: 24 Dec 2000 23:29:08 GMT

In <MWf16.33663$[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Tom Edelbrok" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

]Does killing processes (either with kill or killall) leave hung resources in
]Linux? Or is Linux too smart for that?

It depends onwhat the kill was and what the process was. In general no
but if youfor example just kill it, the program can trap the signal and
do other things including hanging. Kill -9 is untrappable. 

]Also, if you remove files while a daemon is running, does that muck up the
]disk or permanently leave some parts of the disk unreadable to Linux? For
]example, deleting /var/log/messages.

If a file is open when it is removed, the directory entry is removed,
but the inode entry to which the program using the file is actually
attached remains until the file is closed. Then the inode is freed as
well. Thus if you remove /var/log/messages, and a daemon (like syslog )
has the file open it will keep it open, and keep writing to it.

killall -1 syslogd
will free the inode.

]Thanks,
]Tom



------------------------------

From: John the Non-Baptist
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 18:42:21 -0800

On Sun, 24 Dec 2000 17:42:14 -0800, Doink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> That would break the monopoly
>the movie studios have on DVD players.


Not for long

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/15620.html

Think the next time you want to copy files from your hard disk it'
will require authentication from a central server.

------------------------------

From: Charles Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: help-newbie-Storm Linux
Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 05:40:32 -0600

Got it!  Read the print before it shunted me off into the (nono)$
business, and it contained the answer.  There was a file that I was
required to remount rw.  After doing so I was able to edit and
restore the fstab file.

Thanks for answering.

John Hasler wrote:

> Charles Young writes:
> > Now I can get in only in the command line and anything I try to do with
> > the /etc/fstab file is rejected.  (edit, replace from backup, etc).
>
> Tell us _exactly_ what you did and _exactly_ what happened.  Post exact
> copies of all commands and all error messages.  Don't be afraid to be
> verbose.
> --
> John Hasler
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Hasler)
> Dancing Horse Hill
> Elmwood, WI


------------------------------

From: "Scott M. Navarre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: GNOME freeze on RH7.0
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:44:57 GMT

  Well, that was my problem... it froze so bad that ctrl+alt+F? did not
work!  I couldn't get out of tty7.  Luckily I was able to 'su' on a serial
terminal (even though root login was blocked), to kill all the processes
involved.

"Bagpuss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:cao16.12715$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Scott M. Navarre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:bqJ%5.13746$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Hello,
> >
> <snip>
> >
> >
>
> Umm, dunno what could have caused the freeze. But if it happens again,
> ctrl+alt+backspace is the command to kill the X server. It usually works
for
> me but sometime it doesn't. Even then, you can use ctrl+alt+F2 to switch
to
> another local terminal (or F3, F4 etc)
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Bagpuss
> Your friendly cloth cat
> Linux user 192745
> Take the rubbish out before replying
>
>



------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linuxgruven
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:42:54 GMT

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
  "David B. Henning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone is familiar with Linuxgruven.  Had a job
interview
> with them and would like any input.
>
> Thanks
>
>
Well, I think it is a good opertunity.  It offers good money and they
are growing fast.  Linux is a big part of the future computing industry
and there is no one quite like linuxgruven


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

------------------------------

From: email address here
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:06:31 -0800

On 24 Dec 2000 17:15:26 GMT, Pineapple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>
>Actually PC-technology is open and there is no need for reverse 
>engineering. 


This just shows your ignorance.  IBM vs Compaq



------------------------------

From: Surch
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:10:14 -0800

On 24 Dec 2000 11:48:28 GMT, Pineapple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>Paying for dvd-content does give you a 
>right to own it and the media it's on - it doesn't include the license for 
>a playing software. 

License You have a license?  You don't need a license to watch a DVD.
You don't even need a license to use Windows on your computer.
Microsoft just tells you that so you believe it!

Surch



------------------------------

From: Surch
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 19:17:24 -0800

On 24 Dec 2000 11:48:28 GMT, Pineapple <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

>Also DVD-rom drive may include a software license for windows-software but 
>that doesn't include a right to use similliar software on another platform 
>or OS. DVD-decoding is a licenseable technique and isn't free. 

I just read the rest of this drivel.

DVDs are objects being sold. I buy the object.  I didn't sign a
contract.  I didn't apply for a license.  Now if i could decode a DVD
with a Cap'n Crunch decoder ring, what is wrong with that.  

A license implies that I need     
"Official or legal permission to do or own a specified thing." .   

I don't need permission to decode a DVD. I own it!

Thank you.


Surch

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:43:30 +0100
From: Stefan Braun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Palm emulators for Linux?

Matt O'Toole wrote:
> 
> Are there any Palm emulators available for Linux?  I'd like to be able to
> run and test Palm applications, and take screenshots to stick into printed
> docs and web pages.
> 
> Matt O.

There is a UNIX version of the POSE (Palm OS Emulator). You'll find it
at the Palm site: http://www.palmos.com/dev/tech/tools/emulator/

Stefan

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tom Hoffmann)
Subject: Re: how to detect when a CDROM is loaded?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:32:46 GMT

>... but if the user inserts an audio CD ...

audio CD? What script would you want to run against an audio CD?

------------------------------

From: John Hasler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:41:24 GMT

Deherrr writes:
> They reverse-engineered it!  The technique of deniability is called
> "clean-roomed".  One (non-compaq employee)/contractor looks at the actual
> code from a dump of the BIOS...

I have an IBM book titled _Technical_ _Reference_ _Personal_ _Computer_.
The first edition of this book became available within months of the
release of the IBM pc.  It contains a BIOS source listing as well as
complete schematics, timing digrams, and specifications: all the basic
information needed to build a pc.  I did not have to sign any kind of NDA
to buy this book: I just forked over $39.95 (or somesuch).  It would have
been extremely foolish of Compaq not to use this book.  As subsequent
events have proven, Compaq is not managed by fools.

Some of the earliest clone manufacturers (Columbia, for example) didn't
bother with the clean-room technique.  They just ripped off the IBM BIOS.
IBM eventually threatened them with lawsuits, but by then alternatives were
available.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hartmann Schaffer)
Crossposted-To: alt.video.dvd,alt.video.dvd.software
Subject: Re: DVD software for Linux yet?
Date: 24 Dec 2000 16:20:56 -0500

In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Pineapple  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
>Actually PC-technology is open and there is no need for reverse 
>engineering. 

actually, the bios had to be reverse engineered.  the hardware was open

>..But its really great that intellectual property is free to steal and rip. 
>This really eases my mind, being a programmer and making my living doing 
>it. It's so nice to know that anyone can reverse-engineer my product and 
>rip it and use it for free. I'm sure there will be hundreds of programmers 

well, the point of dvd is reading the discs (in order to play whatever
is on it).  as long as they don't provide the software for people to
do it in the environment of their choice, they force somebody to
rengineer it.

>and companies which will develop and distribute free (and therefor 
>unprofitable) software..

you can be sure, because it is happening already

hs

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Eachep)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Where are the terminal TYPES set in Linux?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 01:05:50 GMT

On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:45:50 GMT, Scott M. Navarre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> insisted:
> I was wondering where the terminal types get set in Linux so that when you
> log into a terminal it will be set to what you want it.  In SCO Openserver,

Define "terminal."  Fire up an rxvt and TERM=rxvt.  Set TERM in
~/.bash_profile and TERM is that until overlaid by the next program's
re-definition of TERM.


> they are contained in /etc/ttytype in the following format:

/etc/termcap or terminfo in Linux.



-- 

 Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
     TopQuark Software & Serv.  Contract programmer, server bum.  
    [EMAIL PROTECTED] Give up Spammers; I use procmail.

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (phil)
Subject: Re: Embedded character
Date: 25 Dec 2000 02:11:32 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Dave Brown -[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]- spewed forth 
the following lines of wisdom:
>In article <Ia416.33529$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Tom Edelbrok wrote:
>>How can I embed a control character in a bash script.
>>
>>For example, if I want to pass a control character to a process that is
>>reading a script or data file that has been created with pico. I want to
>>place a CTRL X or a CTRL Z or some such thing in the file. Obviously
>>pressing the actual CTRL character is going to cause the wrong thing to
>>happen.
>
>I can't say about pico.  But in the shell, and in the vi editor, a 
>ctrl-V is an "escape mechanism" which prevents the interpretation of 
>the next keystroke.  So to put a "control-Z" character into a file, you 
>would type "control-V control-Z". 

pico doesn't support escape characters, you need to use plain text, or just
use an editor that does.
echo "\033[0;36m" for colours etc.
\033 is the code for Escape.. do the same thing with control, (man 7 ascii)
or use a different editor like joe, vi or ViM that support escape and control
characters.
Phil.

------------------------------


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