Linux-Misc Digest #975, Volume #27 Tue, 29 May 01 09:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Kwrite for Gnome? (James Richard Tyrer)
FREE 90 day Groupware evaluation for Linux (Teamware Linux)
Re: Desktop Environments ("muzh")
Re: Is it worth upgrading kernel? (Corne Beerse)
Re: Is it worth upgrading kernel? (Corne Beerse)
Move a partition up (Ester Ahoodem)
Re: Why does Linux / OSS community love mailing lists and hate news (pip)
Re: Sensor module for via686 motherboard (K133A) ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Why does Linux / OSS community love mailing lists and hate news servers?
("Floyd L. Davidson")
Re: Best Window Manager. ("Joel")
Re: Simple Mail Transfer Protocol(SMTP) (hong seung wan)
Re: shutdown quirk (faeychyld)
quakeworld (SammyTheSnake)
Re: manipulating /etc/passwd + /etc/group ("Eric")
Re: Move a partition up ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: Resize the swap file? (Bernhard Mogens Ege)
Re: Why does Linux / OSS community love mailing lists and hate news (pip)
Re: Strange GCC problem on LINUX box ("Dave Korn")
"makewhatis" gives errors ("Tom Edelbrok")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: James Richard Tyrer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: redhat.general,linux.redhat.misc,comp.os.linux.help
Subject: Re: Kwrite for Gnome?
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 11:10:22 GMT
LRW wrote:
> I LOVE KDE's kwrite as a super-notepad; but I can't quite find something
> like that in Gnome's applications. What I mean is, kwrite allows you to
> change color tagging depending on what style you want--HTML, Pearl, C,
> etc, and I LOVE that. But I can't find that feature in either of Gnome's
> native word editers.
>
> I ask because I'm going to be using a workstation that only have Gnome
> and no KDE, otherwise I'd just use kwrite even in Gnome.
In case you didn't quite get this from the other posts, you can run Kwrite
in GNOME.
I have Gno-RPM and Gedit running quite well in KDE.
You will just have to install the needed packages to support it.
Currently it appears to only be available in the Kdebase package.
So unless disk space is an issue ... .
> Oh, BTW, what are people's opinions between KDE and Gnome? Just
> wondering. =)
Haven't tried the newest version. Had problems with it when I installed
Red Hat 6.1 so have always been a KDE user.
JRT
------------------------------
From: Teamware Linux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FREE 90 day Groupware evaluation for Linux
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:09:28 +0300
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------------------------------
From: "muzh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Desktop Environments
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 23:15:19 +1200
In article <9etmaq$qqe$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "David Dorward"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It seems that on Mon, 28 May 2001 05:14:26 +0100, someone claiming to be
> "Tyron Washington" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> typed this: (Follow ups
> set)
>
>> I have a couple of questions about desktop environments and stuff (I'm
>> using RedHat 7.0):
>> [1] What is the relationship between GNOME and the desktop environments
>> featured on themes.org (afterstep, blackbox, enlightenment, fvwm, gtk+,
>> icewm, kde, litestep, sawfish & wm)? Or is GNOME just another desktop
>> environment?
> Gnome and kde are dekstop environments. The others are window managers.
> A window manager puts nice borders around windows and lets you move them
> around. It often also provides a nice menu. Desktop environments give a
> consistant look to your desktop and include applications, file managers,
> etc. KDE must use its own window manager. Gnome can use any, but some
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> are better then others (becuase the window manager can talk to Gnome if
> it knows how).
>
KDE does *not* have to use kwm, its own windowmanager.
On my Suse7.1 system KDE runs happily using Windowmaker as a window
manager, and I believe one can tweak Enlightenment, Ice and a few others
to be "KDE-aware" also.
--
Never trust a man in a suit --
cll
------------------------------
From: Corne Beerse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is it worth upgrading kernel?
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:19:19 +0200
Peet Grobler wrote:
> >>I'm in the process of upgrading all the software on this machine, so if I
> >>need to upgrade e.g. glibc, or similar, I'm doing it anyways. Won't create
> >>more work for me.
> >>
> >>What do you guys think??
> >[-]
> >Since you're in the process upgrading pretty much else at the moment
> >I'd even more not upgrade to a new kernel release. You've your work
> >cut out already and in the meantime could let 2.4.x ripen a bit more.
>
> I'm not planning on upgrading the kernel immediately. I want to upgrade the
> rest of the software, and once that is done, the kernel.
>
Nice you picked your upgrade track. I'd change the order: First the
kernel (if the compiler is good enough), then the compiler (if not done
before the kernel) and finaly the other tools, since some tools depend
on functionallity in a kernel.
--
Everything should be as simple as possible but not simpler - A. Einstein
Corne' Beerse | Alcatel Telecom Nederland
------------------------------
From: Corne Beerse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Is it worth upgrading kernel?
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:13:28 +0200
Peet Grobler wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
> >So you read the changes, can you considder them as upgrades to your
> >platform? If no, then there's no need to upgrade there. You might
> >considder upgrades in the 2.2.x range if available.
>
> That's the thing. What did they change? Is there a way to find out before
> downloading the entire kernel? I know they've changed the module for my SCSI
> card, but what were the changes?
Have a look at http://www.kernel.org/ or http://www.kernelnotes.org/. If
you want to know more, yes, you have to download some source. If it is
only in some modules, you can also have a look in the current source if
there is some alternate webaddress for your modules and only update the
modules. On this track, be sure to stick with the 2.2.x kernel or 2.4.x
kernel track.
>
> >
> >>
> >> Would these changes justify me downloading the kernel, and installing it?
> >> Would it be faster? Since this is an old machine, I won't benefit much
> from
> >> changes made to the kernel to include newer hardware. Heck, this machine
> >> doesn't even have a monitor. X not installed. Just the basic software.
> >>
> >> I'm in the process of upgrading all the software on this machine, so if I
> >> need to upgrade e.g. glibc, or similar, I'm doing it anyways. Won't
> create
> >> more work for me.
> >>
> >
> >well, if you are upgrading and it gets more and more like re-installing,
> >then yes, I'd upgrade to the best available (not the newest!). Then
> >upgrading to a 2.4.x is something. Have a look at 2.4.x distributions
> >and the websites for the upgrades from the suppliers. Take it the easy
> >way, start with the 2.4.x distribution from your current supplier.
> >
>
> The problem here is - I'm not on a standard distribution. It used to be a
> Linux From Scratch system, whereafter I installed the "rpm" package from a
> Mandrake system, and installed quite a lot of rpm's using that. This all got
> very confusing, and, as a better alternative, I've collected the source for
> everything on the machine. If I do a "cd /usr/src" and "make", it'll
> re-build the whole system. Why? I don't know. I set it up like that while
> building the system (the second time). Besides, if anything is already
> compiled, it won't do it again.
>
> So, if I want to upgrade the kernel, I'll have to download the source, and
> re-compile. Like everything else.
see above: http://www.linux.org/ e.a.
--
Everything should be as simple as possible but not simpler - A. Einstein
Corne' Beerse | Alcatel Telecom Nederland
------------------------------
From: Ester Ahoodem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Move a partition up
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 11:30:06 -0000
I have a 40gig drive with two partitions on it arranged as follows:
8gigs
32gigs
I want to delete the 8gig partition and resize the 32gig partition to
fill up the entire drive. I used parted to delete the 8gig partition
but its resize command won't do anything with it when i try to resize
it to the begining of the drive. The move command won't translate it
upward either. What should I do?
Thanks.
--
Posted via CNET Help.com
http://www.help.com/
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why does Linux / OSS community love mailing lists and hate news
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 12:38:47 +0100
wade blazingame wrote:
> Signing up for mailing lists is a hassle. Getting off some of them can be
> a freakin nightmare. Your in-box is stuffed with every message whether
> you're interested in the subject or not. Threading is almost never
> supported as well in mail clients as it is in news readers. If the
> mailing lists are archived at all, they're archived using terrible HTML
> interfaces that are illogically presented, painful to use and inflexible.
>
> This really discourages participation and strengthens the misperception
> that OSS packages are difficult and unapproachable.
>
> Why must it be this way? Can someone explain this to me?
Well a number of points:
1) I fully agree that most HTML maillist archives are crap. That is
because no one has bothered to come up with something better. But they
ARE usable and you can get the info you are looking for.
2) Yes, I think that threading issue is a pain. Maybe Netscape can't
handle threads properly but following conversations in for example the
Kernel mailing list is a pain (especially as some key developers use
VERY tight cutting, which makes threading essential - yet the threading
does not work!)
Anyway, I think this is a minor point. If you can't subscribe to a
mailing list and follow it (even if the threading is a bit out) then
should you really be there ? This is an eye candy issue.
If there is a better way however, the community is all ears to good
ideas!
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Sensor module for via686 motherboard (K133A)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 05:40:13 +0600
In article <9evvde$ofr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Joe
Leherbauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Wayne Osborn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi all, just upgraded to an Epox 8KTA3 mobo / 1Ghz AMD and can't find
>> the sensors module for this mobo in the kernel...
>>
>> Running sensors-detect (lm_sensors rpm package) tells me to load the
>> kernel module via686a but this module is not in my distro (RH7.0).
>>
>> Anyone using AMD/VIA K133A chipset and using temp sensors? Please
>> help.
>
> I'm using kernel 2.2.16 on an MSI K7T Pro mobo (VIA KT133 chipset). I
> fetched lm_sensors and i2c from http://www.netroedge.com/~lm78/,
> compiled and installed them separately as modules, then did
I did the same for an 8KTA3 mobo and various versions of the 2.4.*
kernels, except that i2c is built in to 2.4, so I only had to fetch
lm_sensors. IIRC, I just removed the lm_sensors RPM before installing
the kit that I downloaded from the site that you mentioned.
Wayne, I'm curious about your expericenes with that mobo, though. I and
a number of other people on linux-kernel have had nothing but trouble
with it, and Alan Cox has all but given up on getting it fixed without
a hint from VIA about what the problem is.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Floyd L. Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why does Linux / OSS community love mailing lists and hate news servers?
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 03:57:28 -0800
"pip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> wade blazingame wrote:
> > Signing up for mailing lists is a hassle. Getting off some of them can
be
> > a freakin nightmare. Your in-box is stuffed with every message whether
> > you're interested in the subject or not. Threading is almost never
> > supported as well in mail clients as it is in news readers. If the
> > mailing lists are archived at all, they're archived using terrible HTML
> > interfaces that are illogically presented, painful to use and
inflexible.
> >
> > This really discourages participation and strengthens the misperception
> > that OSS packages are difficult and unapproachable.
> >
> > Why must it be this way? Can someone explain this to me?
[snippage]
> If there is a better way however, the community is all ears to good
> ideas!
Ahem, this isn't exactly front page news these days... ;-)
Today I am borrowing someone else's computer, and I'm reading
news using Outlook Express running under Win98. If I had to use
software like this on a regular basis, I would wonder about how or
why anyone would read Usenet at all, much less want to subscribe
to mailing lists! I set it up to read all of six newsgroups, and even
that seems to put it into overload mode.
The point? It's your choice of software that makes email, mailing
lists, and/or Usenet more or less difficult.
I prefer XEmacs and read news and mail with GNUS. The problems
being described for mailing lists simply do not exist. There simply is
no difference between the way I read email and the way I read Usenet.
OK?
--
Floyd L. Davidson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Joel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Best Window Manager.
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 07:19:40 -0500
Thanks for the ideas of those smaller window managers. I was getting quite
annoyed by the constant hard drive activity, and slow programs. KDE is
worse than GNOME. I installed Window Maker, but how can I set it up so that
I can load to it when I log in? The X login box has the GNOME logo on it,
but you can choose which type of session you want, but how do I get Window
Maker, (or any other window mamager), on this list? Thanks again.
"Carlie Coats" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9ev5n2$d47$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <9eukog$hlm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Joel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi. I'm kinda new to linux. What window manager do you guys like best?
I
> > like the GNOME desktop, but it seems kinda slow (slower than Windows
98). I
> > only have 32 megs of ram. I installed the WindowMaker rpm, and I tried
have
> > GNOME use that instead of Sawfish, and it is faster, but It's still
slower
> > than windows. I have Redhat 7.1. Also, On the login dialog, how can I
add
> > Window Maker to the list of session types to start. Thanks in advance.
>
> As others have said, more memory is a great idea... with an older machine
> (like yours or mine), you may not find the memory locally but you _can_
> get it on the net from Micron's memory division --
>
> http://www.crucial.com/
>
> And you might try even lighter-weight window managers like icewm or xfce
> as well...
>
> --Carlie Coats
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (hong seung wan)
Subject: Re: Simple Mail Transfer Protocol(SMTP)
Date: 29 May 2001 05:26:39 -0700
Thanks for your reply... Uhring..
Now, I find out the solution on smtp protocol ...
#vim /etc/xinetd.d/smtp
service smtp
{
disable = no
socket_type = stream
wait = no
user = root
server = /usr/sbin/sendmail
server_args = -bs
log_on_success += USERID
log_on_failure += USERID
}
I just do this method.. Then , I can open "smtp protocol"...
Dave Uhring <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> hong seung wan wrote:
>
> > Hi.
> >
> > I have installed "redhat 7.1(2.4.2)" and try to optimize my PC...
> > On the my way, I can't open smtp port....despite of opening the other
> > ports(http,telnet,ftp...)
> >
> > Shall I handle "/etc/xinetd.d/" for opening smtp port???
> >
> > please give me a method.....
> >
> > Thank you ...
> >
>
> smtp on RedHat-7.1 is sendmail. sendmail is not started from xinetd, it is
> started from /etc/rc.d/init.d/sendmail by a symlink in /etc/rc.d/rc3.d or
> /etc/rc.d/rc5.d depending whether your default init level is 3 or 5.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 22:27:06 +1000
From: faeychyld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: shutdown quirk
John Thompson wrote:
>
> faeychyld wrote:
>
> > With all the redhat installations I have
> > done, I have noticed initialy, that shutdwon
> > can be called from the command line by user and root.
> >
> > After some time as the system ages, it suddenly refuses
> > user access to shutdown and declares root use only.
> >
> > Subsequent to this, shutdown then requires the full path
> > " /sbin/shutdown " before it will work.
> >
> > I know this can be fixed by changing the permissions
> > of 'shutdown' and editing the path statement to include
> > 'sbin'.
> >
> > But it did initialy work!!! anyone?
>
> I haven't seen that on my RedHat systems here, but I suspect the
> problem may be that pam is configured to allow only the console
> owner to run shutdown. Perhaps pam is getting confused about who
> owns the console?
>
> --
>
> -John ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
I have since discovered that I could assign myself
shutdown priviledge with linuxconf.
Interestingly, now the shutdown is complete, turning the
machine off instead of leaving the console up with the
halted message.
--
-
-
-
Regards F
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (SammyTheSnake)
Subject: quakeworld
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:19:42 +0100
I'm having some 'fun' trying to get quakeworld to work propperly. Having
used wine and a lot of weird fiddling to extract the .pak files from the
quake CD and successfully installed the svga and x11 versions of quakeforge
(from .deb packages, I use debian) I now have the following problems:
1) qw-client-svga doesn't grok my mouse, I've edited /etc/vga/libvga.conf a
squillion times, specifying the correct mouse type and device, I've tried
using the repeater function of gpm, I've tried killing X, I've tried killing
gpm, I've tried specifying gpm as the mouse type. Whatever I do, svga quake
always claims "no mouse found" with no more info...
2) qw-client-x11 groks the mouse, but is buggery slow (overheads and such) I
don't really want to run it in its own X server at a more friendly
resolution, though that option is looking a little more tempting... The main
problem is that whenever I press a mouse button, the game pauses! I try to
jump and it only works if I'm standing still, I can only fire a single shot
at a time because all the time my mouse button is pressed, the rest of the
players can just blow me up!
has anyone here had more success and less fun than me with these?
I'm guessing that the svgalib problem is trivial to sort out if you just
happen to know what I'm doing wrong, but I don't! grr!
some further info...
gpm correctly detects and interfaces with my mouse, type ms, device file
/dev/mouse and also correctly exports it again as /dev/gpmdata type ms
again. X then correctly picks this up and uses it.
TIAFAH
Cheers & God bless
SammyTheSnake
--
Sam.Penny @ Ntlworld.com | Looking for a computer related
Linux, Hardware & Juggling specialist :-) | job, if you can help, e-mail me :)
Wheels: bike, 'ickle bike, and unicycle. | /o \/ Working on 3-5 ball tricks
Boxen: K6-266@300, dual Celery500 & Nx486 | \__/\ 6 balls and 7/8-ball exercises
------------------------------
From: "Eric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: manipulating /etc/passwd + /etc/group
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:44:33 +0200
> No, this is a (bad) redhatism. Usually, users will belong to larger
> groups, such as "students", "staff", etc. There is nothing wrong with
> having two users in the same group. It is even normal. That's the point
> of groups .. that they should contain more than one user.
>
> I believe RH invented some scheme for fine control via groups that
> depended on everyone having a singular primary group. Anyone recall
> what it was?
I got triggered by your question, and went looking for it,
I always considered it an annoying RedHat thing, but it does make some
sense.
http://www.europe.redhat.com/documentation/rhl6.1/ref-guide-en/s1-sysadmin-u
sr-grps.php3
Eric
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Move a partition up
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 14:33:14 +0200
Ester Ahoodem <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a 40gig drive with two partitions on it arranged as follows:
> 8gigs
> 32gigs
> I want to delete the 8gig partition and resize the 32gig partition to
> fill up the entire drive. I used parted to delete the 8gig partition
> but its resize command won't do anything with it when i try to resize
> it to the begining of the drive. The move command won't translate it
downward? You mean?
> upward either. What should I do?
Back it up, delete it, remake it.
What? You don't have enough space to back it up to? :-) Why, I think
you just discovered one of the reasons NOT to make gigantic partitions!
Don't Do That Then (tm).
And if you must do it, you need a really good reason, and being smart
enough to come up with a Really Good'Un, you're also smart enough to
come up with a way of doing it! Tell us about it later.
Less humourously ... if you can't do this, then you don't want to,
and you're being shown one of the reasons why not. If you really really
think you want to, then I'd investigate the LVM or RAID rather than
mucking around with ginourmous partitions.
Peter
------------------------------
From: Bernhard Mogens Ege <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Re: Resize the swap file?
Date: 29 May 2001 14:55:39 +0200
>>>>> "Michael" == Michael Meissner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> LRW <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Well I wouldn't think so, but I didn't know if Linux had some builtin
>> partition utility that would do it. I don't think Partition Magic will
>> will it?
> Partition Magic revision 4 will resize Linux ext2 partitions. I expect later
> revisions will work just as well or better (revision 4 was released before
> Linux supported swap files bigger than 128 megabytes, and will only create swap
> partitions that big, I don't know if later versions fixed this). Note, if you
> resize or move the partition the kernel is on (either the / or /boot partitions
> depending on your setup), you must boot from floppy or rescue disk, since the
> disk addresses LILO has put into the master boot record will have changed.
Partition Magic 6.0 will allow swap files larger than 128Mb (just
tried it). Too bad Partition Magic 6.0 doesn't know how to handle
LILO.
Bernhard
------------------------------
From: pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why does Linux / OSS community love mailing lists and hate news
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:58:07 +0100
"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote:
> I prefer XEmacs and read news and mail with GNUS. The problems
> being described for mailing lists simply do not exist. There simply is
> no difference between the way I read email and the way I read Usenet.
>
> OK?
Is the threading problem ( esp on klm ) caused by Netscape ? I would not
be surprised - It does however not have a problem with NG's.
------------------------------
From: "Dave Korn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.gcc.help
Subject: Re: Strange GCC problem on LINUX box
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 12:38:53 +0100
Tiikuli wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>On Fri, 25 May 2001 11:28:57 -0400, "Jonathan G. Campbell"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Another case is that of MS-DOS/Windows. There, in physical files, lines
>>are terminated with '\r' '\n'. However, C insures that a program never
>>sees the '\r'.
>
>You mean, C gets rid of '\r's during i.e. fgets()?
Look up the fopen command. It takes a string which specifies the open
mode. As well as read/write/append, this string also specifies whether a
file should be treated as binary - so every byte is read verbatim - or as
text, in which case cr's and lf's are translated to whatever standard the
local system uses.
DaveK
--
They laughed at Galileo. They laughed at Copernicus. They laughed at
Columbus. But remember, they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Edelbrok" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: "makewhatis" gives errors
Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:04:58 GMT
When I run makewhatis I now get the following errors that I never used to
get:
[root@blade init.d]# makewhatis
Read file error: ./bunzip2.1 No such file or directory
Read file error: ./bzcat.1 No such file or directory
./bunzip2.1.gz: No such file or directory
./bzcat.1.gz: No such file or directory
Can anyone tell me what has caused this problem and how to fix it? The rest
of my Redhat 6.0 system is working perfectly.
Thanks in advance,
Tom
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Misc Digest
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