Linux-Networking Digest #799, Volume #9           Wed, 6 Jan 99 19:13:30 EST

Contents:
  Charter Communications Cable Modem ("Ingolf Heinrichsen")
  Traffic Shaper (Dennis Pfisterer)
  Re: setting up a gateay for a cable modem (Stuart Lynne)
  PPP server DISASTER!!!!!!!!!!!! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
  Re: SIOCSIFFLAGS: Resource temporarily unavailable (Bernd Eckenfels)
  pppd and ppp speed (Michael Paust)
  Re: Where's RedHat rc.inet1, rc.inet2 files?? ("Adam")
  FTP through IP masquerading (Jeffrey Spiers)
  no dependency information ("Prutser")
  Re: trouble getting two NIC's to work together ("Hervey Wilson")
  Masqeurading HELP (Ingo)
  Connect 2 NIC's to one Samba server? (Kevin Meek)
  Q: Problem with IP Aliasing (Peter =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=FCegg?=)
  Re: Connect 2 NIC's to one Samba server? (Andrew Williams)
  Caldera OpenLinux 1.1 & NE2000 (Dejan Adelsberger)
  Re: euro support in kernel 2.0 (Mike Werner)
  Re: Network Card Sustained Data Transfer Rate? (David 'Septimus' De Ridder)
  Re: AOL as ISP? (Gary Butler)
  Re: Get ip-up and ip-down to "echo" some information (L J Bayuk)
  Re: ftpd won't allow uploads (Warren Mira)
  Mismatched read page pointer (Milan Gabor)
  Re: How to check the status of Firewall. (Hajo Simons)
  Re: ml.org botched MX records: who to talk to? (Vincent Zweije)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ingolf Heinrichsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Charter Communications Cable Modem
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 13:12:11 -0800

Hi there,
I was considering getting a cable modem from Charter Communications, the
cable TV provider for Pasadena. Does anyone know, whether it is easy to get
this up and running under Linux? I have checked the cable modem mini-HOWTO,
but it does not mention Charter.

Thanks a bunch,

Ingolf



------------------------------

From: Dennis Pfisterer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Traffic Shaper
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 09:21:12 +0100
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Hi,
can anyone point me to some information about 
the traffic shaper

thanks dennis

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stuart Lynne)
Subject: Re: setting up a gateay for a cable modem
Date: 6 Jan 1999 08:05:49 GMT

In article <76imp6$pk7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Braad Bros <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>i'm trying to set up a gateway with RH 5.2//Intel so i can share my cable
>modem.
>i have a static ip address for my internet connection... and i want to
>connect 5 windoze (microslave w98) computers to it...
>
>my linux comp has two network cards... 3com 3c900-tpo
>and all my windoze comps has 1 network card... same 3com's
>i can connect to the internet with it, but i cant share the connection.
>
>what do i need to make it work?

For a linux thinserver solution which fits on a single floppy see:

        http://edge.fireplug.net

It an edge router suitable for cable modems that does IP masquerading,
proxing, port forwarding, IP tunnels etc.

Use it as is on a small 486 or as an example of how to set it up on
a full Linux system.

-- 
Stuart Lynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>      604-461-7532      <http://edge.fireplug.net>
PGP Fingerprint: 28 E2 A0 15 99 62 9A 00  88 EC A3 EE 2D 1C 15 68

------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: PPP server DISASTER!!!!!!!!!!!!
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 08:53:59 GMT

Hi all,

I have a hairy one here!!!!!!!!
I am setting up a PPP server that has a router to the world and hence I had to
create a default route statement to be able to talk to the world.

Now that is fine and all works from the server but as soon as I dial in,
the pppd tries to create a defaultroute statement such as:
0.0.0.0        201.41.196.21    0.0.0.0         UG                       ppp0

however this does not work since I ALREADY have a default route and I cannot
browse/talk to the world.

I am able to ping through the ppp link to the server but nowhere else, not
even to the router LAN interface on the same subnet.

My ~/.ppprc looks like this:

-detach
modem
crtscts
lock
defaultroute
proxyarp

My route table is:  netstat -rn Kernel IP routing table Destination  Gateway 
Genmask  Flags  MSS Window  irtt Iface 201.41.196.10  0.0.0.0 
255.255.255.255 UH  1500 0  0 eth0:0 201.41.196.21  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.255
UH  1500 0  0 ppp0 201.41.196.0  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.192 U  1500 0  0 eth0
127.0.0.0  0.0.0.0  255.0.0.0  U  3584 0  0 lo 0.0.0.0  201.41.196.1  0.0.0.0
 UG  1500 0  0 eth0


I really need a world class expert to help me with this as this has bent so
many minds here

If you could e-mail as well as post the reply I would be eternally grateful
and maybe one day I can help out myself

Peter
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

============= Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ============
http://www.dejanews.com/       Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own    

------------------------------

From: Bernd Eckenfels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.binaries.music.mp3,comp.os.linux.setup,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: SIOCSIFFLAGS: Resource temporarily unavailable
Date: 6 Jan 1999 06:45:13 GMT

In comp.os.linux.networking A.G. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> SIOCSIFFLAGS: Resource temporarily unavailable

> What does it possibly mean?

Most likely that the NIC is not configured correctly in the kernel. Since it
is a PCI card it might be possible that the BIOS is set wrong.
Have a look at the output of "dmesg" if the kernel has found your card. 

I think there are some details on 
 http://cesdis.gsfc.nasa.gov/linux/drivers/rtl8139.html

Greetings
Bernd


------------------------------

From: Michael Paust <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: pppd and ppp speed
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 22:12:08 +0000

Linux package: SuSE-Linux 5.2

Trouble with the ppp-speed. Although I have already edited the
/etc/rc.config (modem speed set to 28800bps) the ppp-speed is still only
19200bps. There is an error message in the the protocol /var/log
messages. After the pppd is started it tells me: modem speed is not
supported. Thank you for any hints to tackle this problem

michael paust


------------------------------

From: "Adam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.questions,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Where's RedHat rc.inet1, rc.inet2 files??
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 02:07:36 -0500

redhat keeps its network related stuff in /etc/sysconfig/network.

resolv.conf is simple, it should have two or three lines

nameserver 111.222.333.444
domain example.com

it really only needs the nameserver line, where 111.222.333.444 is the IP
address of your nameserver.

--Adam
adam@virtual-estate[nospam].net
Quality domain hosting from $5/month
http://www.virtual-estate.net




------------------------------

From: Jeffrey Spiers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FTP through IP masquerading
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 00:33:34 -0700
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I can't seem to get my FTP client to work through IP masquerading. I am
running Red Hat 5.1 and trying to use Cute FTP on my Win 95 machine. I
can log in to the server, but it won't accept the LIST command. It just
freezes.

Is there a way around this?

Please help,

Jeff Spiers


------------------------------

From: "Prutser" <twinkelapestaartjegeocities.com>
Subject: no dependency information
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 1999 23:36:43 +0100

I have a problem with my Redhat 5.1

while booting, it says: no dependency information for module
lib/modules/2.0.35/net/ne.o
delaying eth0 initialization

I have included ne in the /etc/conf.modules as follows:
alias eth0 ne
options ne io=0x300

can anybody give me a clue?




------------------------------

From: "Hervey Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: trouble getting two NIC's to work together
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 19:23:37 -0800

I've just done this with two eepro cards and, after some searching around,
found the magic incantation...here's my conf.modules:

alias eth0 eepro
alias eth1 eepro
options eth0 -o eepro0 io=0x000 irq=x
options eth1 -o eepro1 io=0x000 irq=x

It seems you need the "-o <name>" to give the drivers different names when
they are loaded as Linux won't let you load two drivers with the same module
name. Just replace the "eepro" bits above with your driver name.

Hope this helps,

Daddy Rabbit wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>
>conf.modules   (contents)
>
>alias eth0 ne
>options ne io= 0x300 irq=10
>
>alias eth1 ne
>options ne io=0x320 irq=11
>
>





------------------------------

From: Ingo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Masqeurading HELP
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 10:22:09 +0100

Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
==============09D7948CD51B128AAB2B684A
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Does anybody knows a way to masquerade internal ip addresses to exact
one official adresse. So that two computers in the intranet works other
a linux gateway in the internet with TOW DIFFRENT official addresses.
On other os�s it�s called Network Address Translation (NAT). I�m looking
for a way to do that with a linux gateway. In my opinion the
masquerading of linux with ipfwadm only can translate all intranet
addresses to one official address that is bound to the interface of the
linux gateway that is attached to the internet?!

Thanks for any comment

Ingo Hiepler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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n:              Hiepler;Ingo
org:            Networker I.Hiepler
adr:            Otto-Hahn-Str. 50;;;Dreieich;Hessen;63303;Germany
email;internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
tel;work:       +49 6103-935693
tel;fax:        +49 6103-935692
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x-mozilla-html: FALSE
version:        2.1
end:            vcard


==============09D7948CD51B128AAB2B684A==


------------------------------

From: Kevin Meek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,linux.samba,comp.os.linux.setup,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Connect 2 NIC's to one Samba server?
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 14:42:19 -0800

I am trying to build a server using RHL 5.2 and Samba to replace
our Netware 3.11 server.  I'd like to use two network interface
cards; a 3C905 100Mbs and a 3C509 10Mbs.  The intent would be to
connect the 3C509 to a hub and the 3C905 to a single PC using a
direct cable (can't afford a high-speed hub or NIC's for the
entire system right now, but would like one machine with a high
bandwidth access).  The 3C509 was automatically recognized during
the install process, and I was able to activate the 3C905 through
lilo.conf and conf.modules, then adding it as eth1 using Network
Configurator.  3C509 = 192.168.1.254, 3C905 = 192.168.2.254.

Kernel IP routing table
Destination  Gateway  Genmask         Flags   MSS Window  irtt Iface
192.168.1.0  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.0   U      1500 0          0 eth0
192.168.2.0  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.0   U      1500 0          0 eth1
127.0.0.0    0.0.0.0  255.0.0.0       U      3584 0          0 lo

/etc/hosts
127.0.0.1 localhost localhost.localdomain
192.168.1.254 linux.engravers.com linux

I enabled Network Packet Forwarding in the Network Configurator
Routing tab.  My NT workstation can ping and connect to Samba
shares when it's IP address is 192.168.1.1 and connected to the
3C509 via the hub.  But it can only ping the 3C905 when it's IP
address is 192.168.2.1 and directly connected - Samba server is
not browsable.  I was told that enabling IP forwarding would
somehow connect the second NIC to my Samba server, but apparently
I'm still missing something...and obviously I don't understand
how to address and route these things despite reading every how-to
and dejanews article I can find.  Before I give up and resign
myself to using a single NIC, I'd appreciate any advice you have!

Thanks in advance...


------------------------------

From: Peter =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=FCegg?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Q: Problem with IP Aliasing
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 10:28:52 +0100

Hi,

I'm trying to run IP-Aliasing, running a NE2000 comatible card under
Kernel 2.0.36.

I _did_ compile Network Aliasing as well as IP Aliasing into the Kernel.

Still, using ifconfig I get the following error:

rzh1wln001:~# ifconfig eth0:0 193.193.142.130
net_alias_dev_create(eth0:0): unregistered family==2
SIOCSIFADDR: Invalid Argument

Has anybody an Idea what I'm doing wrong?

Thanks,

        Peter

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 23:44:53 +0100
From: Andrew Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,linux.samba,comp.os.linux.setup,linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Re: Connect 2 NIC's to one Samba server?

I have not bothered reading this properly (it's late) but you want:
interfaces = 192.168.1.254/24  192.168.2.254/24
The /24 means 24 x '1'-bits in the Genmask

Kevin Meek wrote:

> I am trying to build a server using RHL 5.2 and Samba to replace
> our Netware 3.11 server.  I'd like to use two network interface
> cards; a 3C905 100Mbs and a 3C509 10Mbs.  The intent would be to
> connect the 3C509 to a hub and the 3C905 to a single PC using a
> direct cable (can't afford a high-speed hub or NIC's for the
> entire system right now, but would like one machine with a high
> bandwidth access).  The 3C509 was automatically recognized during
> the install process, and I was able to activate the 3C905 through
> lilo.conf and conf.modules, then adding it as eth1 using Network
> Configurator.  3C509 = 192.168.1.254, 3C905 = 192.168.2.254.
>
> Kernel IP routing table
> Destination  Gateway  Genmask         Flags   MSS Window  irtt Iface
> 192.168.1.0  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.0   U      1500 0          0 eth0
> 192.168.2.0  0.0.0.0  255.255.255.0   U      1500 0          0 eth1
> 127.0.0.0    0.0.0.0  255.0.0.0       U      3584 0          0 lo
>
> /etc/hosts
> 127.0.0.1 localhost localhost.localdomain
> 192.168.1.254 linux.engravers.com linux
>
> I enabled Network Packet Forwarding in the Network Configurator
> Routing tab.  My NT workstation can ping and connect to Samba
> shares when it's IP address is 192.168.1.1 and connected to the
> 3C509 via the hub.  But it can only ping the 3C905 when it's IP
> address is 192.168.2.1 and directly connected - Samba server is
> not browsable.  I was told that enabling IP forwarding would
> somehow connect the second NIC to my Samba server, but apparently
> I'm still missing something...and obviously I don't understand
> how to address and route these things despite reading every how-to
> and dejanews article I can find.  Before I give up and resign
> myself to using a single NIC, I'd appreciate any advice you have!
>
> Thanks in advance...

--
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect, especially on my
       http://www.germany.net/teilnehmer/101,69082/samba.html
Simple Samba Solutions web page



------------------------------

From: Dejan Adelsberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Caldera OpenLinux 1.1 & NE2000
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 23:48:41 +0100


==============E05321CEE1A65ED4FB0D12A8
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Hello!

    I am writing to this list because I have a problem. I am a beginner
with Linux and I want to connect it to my local network (Windows 95/98
and Novell). My problem is that I don't know how to install network
adapter. I have a Pentium 150 MHz, 32 RAM, 1,6 HDD ... and NE2000
Compatible network adapter (ISA). I must say that I am a beginner and I
donut know much about Linux so if anybody has time I would like to ask
that person to tell me how can I do that (details prefer).

Thant You,

    Dejan
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Hello!
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I am writing to this list because I have a problem.
I am a beginner with Linux and I want to connect it to my local network
(Windows 95/98 and Novell). My problem is that I don't know how to install
network adapter. I have a Pentium 150 MHz, 32 RAM, 1,6 HDD ... and NE2000
Compatible network adapter (ISA). I must say that I am a beginner and I
donut know much about Linux so if anybody has time I would like to ask
that person to tell me how can I do that (details prefer).
<p>Thant You,
<p>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Dejan
<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href="mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]">[EMAIL PROTECTED]</a></html>

==============E05321CEE1A65ED4FB0D12A8==


------------------------------

From: Mike Werner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: 
alt.os.linux.caldera,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.m68k,comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.powerpc,comp.os.linux.setup,comp.os.linux.x,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: euro support in kernel 2.0
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 17:55:58 -0500

ftp://ftp.freshmeat.net/pub/euro-patch/
It exists.  Contains replacement keymaps, fonts for both console and
X11, and some docs.  66kb download, so it's even small.
-- 
Mike Werner  KA8YSD           |  "Where do you want to go today?"
ICQ# 12934898                 |  "As far from Redmond as possible!"
AIM Screen Name Reznaeous     |
'91 GS500E                    |
Morgantown WV                 |

=====BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK=====
Version: 3.1
GU d-@ s:+ a- C++>$ UL++ P+ L+++ E W++ N++ !o w--- O- !M V-- PS+ PE+
 Y+ R+ !tv b+++(++++) DI+ D--- G e*>++ h! r++ y++++
======END GEEK CODE BLOCK======


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David 'Septimus' De Ridder)
Subject: Re: Network Card Sustained Data Transfer Rate?
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 10:20:59 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Whereto with speedy words [EMAIL PROTECTED] repli'd :


>  That is a general rule I know of for Ethernet.  You start talking ATM, FDDI  it is 
>usually pretty close to the actual
> posted speed.

 Dream on. Overhead in ATM is *huge*.

 Regards,


+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
  David 'Septimus' De Ridder       <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

"A rat in the trap will even bite the cat."

+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
  

------------------------------

From: Gary dot Butler at ibm dot net (Gary Butler)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: AOL as ISP?
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 17:34:18 -0600
Reply-To: Gary dot Butler at ibm dot net

On Fri, 1 Jan 1999 13:49:50 -0500, JD said:
>What did you expect? .. AOL is for kids.. or people that are new to
>computers.. or don't care to learn an insane a lot about them... for anyone
>even remotely serious about computers it's a joke...
>
Accessing the Internet via AOL is like viewing the universe through a
toilet paper tube.


------------------------------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (L J Bayuk)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.setup
Subject: Re: Get ip-up and ip-down to "echo" some information
Date: 6 Jan 1999 23:39:25 GMT

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Bernd Eckenfels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> In comp.os.linux.networking Chee Choon Cheng (remove "removethis" to e-mail me) 
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > I am trying to get ip-up and ip-down scripts run by pppd to echo
>> > something. From the man pages, I know that these scripts are run with
>> > output to /dev/null. Is there a simple way to work around this, so
>> > that these scripts can display some information, like connection
>> > speed, etc.?

Here's another solution which I think is cleaner than the other suggestions.
It assumes you are using a script to start pppd. Have the script create
a named pipe (FIFO) with something like "mkfifo /tmp/ppp.fifo" before
starting pppd. After starting pppd, the script does "cat < /tmp/ppp.fifo".
Meanwhile the ip-up script takes whatever it wants to say to the front-end
and writes it to /tmp/ppp.fifo in a single operation, like:
  (  date; echo PPP is up from $IPLOCAL to $IPREMOTE" ) >/tmp/ppp.fifo

The only trouble is if the connection doesn't go through, then
ppp-up never runs, and the front-end waits forever. This can be fixed by
playing with the ppp connect command line.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Jan 1999 02:16:01 -0800
From: Warren Mira <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ftpd won't allow uploads



"Lee A. Janssen" wrote:

> I've set up wu-ftpd on RedHat 5.1 and am logging in as a real user.
>
> /etc/inetd.conf ->  ftp stream tcp nowait root /usr/sbin/tcpd in.ftpd -l -a
> /etc/passwd -> janssenL:<password>:500:500:l a j ,,:/home/janssenL:/bin/bash
> /etc/ftpaccess -> upload /home/janssenL /home/janssenL yes root root 0666
>
> I can login and download from any directory on the machine, but when I try to
> upload (to my home directory), I get "permission denied".  What have I left out?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Lee A. Janssen
>
> PS, the password is encrypted.

check permission on the directories you want to upload to


------------------------------

From: Milan Gabor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mismatched read page pointer
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1999 10:44:32 +0100

Hi!

I am getting this strange error from my network card :
Mismatched read page pointer 1 vs 57

What is wrong ?
Driver or card ?

Please cc to my mail too !

Tnx !

bye,
MIlan
-- 
   +----------------------------------------------------+
    |  MILAN GABOR                                      |
    /)             [EMAIL PROTECTED]                |
   / )  http://storm.uni-mb.si/docs/personal/milan      |
 _( (+--------------------------------------------------+
(((\ \)  /_)  Window$ is living proof of Murphy's Law
(\\\\ \_/ /     LINUX-The choice of a GNU generation
 \       /
  \   __/          Those who do not understand Unix
   |   |             are condemned to reinvent it,
         
Java could allow computer users to run numerous applicatons without
Windows, a
scenario Bill Gates once said "scares the hell out of me."
                           - Dan Goodin, CNET News

------------------------------

From: Hajo Simons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: How to check the status of Firewall.
Date: 6 Jan 1999 21:29:14 GMT

coa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We are not sure if we have a firewall software in our linux server. What is
> the best way to check it? If it is not, what is a reasonable firewall
> software?

Check the manpage for ipfwadm:
man ipfwadm

--
Hajo

------------------------------

From: Vincent Zweije <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ml.org botched MX records: who to talk to?
Date: 5 Jan 1999 14:10:53 +0100

In article <8y6k2.395$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Stephen van Egmond
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

||  The problem is that they have mangled my MX record for my domain:
||
||  cr322781-a:~$ host bang.ml.org
||  bang.ml.org has address 24.112.37.89
||  bang.ml.org mail is handled (pri=0) by cr322781-a.ym1.on.wa
||
||  Whereas it should say:
||
||  cr322781-a:~$ host bang.ml.org
||  bang.ml.org has address 24.112.37.89
||  bang.ml.org mail is handled (pri=0) by cr322781-a.ym1.on.wave.home.com
||
||  ... and no, `host` is not truncating.
||
||  So the original question is, who do I get in touch with at ml.org?

Try "host -C ml.org" (maybe bang.ml.org).  It should show you something
like

    ml.org                  NS      ns.ml.org
    ns.ml.org       hostmaster.ml.org       (<some numbers>)

This tells you to contact [EMAIL PROTECTED]  If not, try nslookup with
query type SOA or any.

Then just hope they'll answer there.

Ciao.                                                           Vincent.
-- 
Vincent Zweije <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>    | "If you're flamed in a group you
<http://www.xs4all.nl/~zweije/>      | don't read, does anybody get burnt?"
[Xhost should be taken out and shot] |            -- Paul Tomblin on a.s.r.

------------------------------


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