"Robert M. Hyatt" wrote:
>
> On Sat, 10 Apr 1999, Doug Ledford wrote:
> > To be fair to Dell, they sell Red Hat Linux 5.2 pre-installed on these
> > systems. If Red Hat Linux 5.2 doesn't support SMP, then neither do
> > they. Expecting something different from Dell is no different than
> > expecting Dell to ship an SMP version of Win98. To that extent, Dell
> > not shipping an SMP capable kernel is because we haven't released one
> > for Red Hat Linux 5.2 and is our failing. The fact that they will still
> > sell you multiple CPUs is in anticipation of being able to use the extra
> > CPUs if you want to do a manual kernel compile or the day that we
> > release an SMP kernel RPM that can be applied to the machine.
>
> I don't think you can 'be fair' to Dell here. This is a totally stupid
> policy, and would be just a dishonest as selling a quad xeon box with
> win98 installed. And then letting _you_ figure out how to use all four
> cpus (hint: spelled win NT server).
>
> If they sell a dual box, with a non-SMP linux kernel installed... that
> is totally stupid... And it will cause a little dissatisfaction with
> Linux when the problem is the morons at Dell that are shipping such
> nonsense.
>
> >
> > We decided not to ship an SMP kernel with Red Hat Linux 5.2 because we
> > knew that there were some problems with 2.0.36 SMP. There were lots of
> > people that could do OK with it, but then there were other systems that
> > simply wouldn't work at all. Then there were the occasional lock up
> > problems. Then there was the occasional SCSI sub-system goes belly up
> > problem with my driver that's in the stock 2.0.36 (which I fixed in the
> > 5.1.12 driver version just recently).
> >
> > Originally, if we released a 2.0.36 SMP kernel RPM, people would be mad
> > that we shipped something that wasn't 100% "up to snuff" so to speak. I
> > would also feel like we fell down if we did that. People rely on us to
> > not only package things up, but to try and reasonably make sure those
> > packages work. Shipping a known busted package would violate that
> > expectation. At this point in time, with all of the patches there are
> > for 2.0.36 it *might* be possible to do an SMP kernel and finally feel
> > good about it.
> >
>
> all good points... but it doesn't excuse dell shipping a SMP box that
> won't do "SMP" stuff. that's insane and a good way to lose customers.
Without getting into the details of this particular case, in other cases
I know it has been made clear that the current Red Hat Linux offering on
their boxes doesn't do SMP and the customer has said "I don't care, I
want multiple CPUs anyway". This makes a certain amount of sense for
two reasons. One, there is reason to expect an SMP release of the Red
Hat Linux product at some point in time (presumably not the 3 years you
would need to wait for the next Windows release). Two, the customer has
the option of compiling their own SMP kernel. Given those things,
buying the multiple CPUs that the customer wants now avoids any stepping
issues or availability issues later. You are also going to need the
specific heatsinks and such that fit the Dell motherboards, so you can't
just run down to the corner computer store and buy CPUs later to fit
these Dell machines, so that's another reason to buy the CPUs now.
In short, Dell is part of our Beta testing program and (as anyone can
find out by looking at the RawHide product) we are already shipping SMP
kernels in our beta stuff. So, their practice is not nearly so insane
as you make it sound. In this particular case you could claim that
there might have been a breakdown in communications in that Dell didn't
explicitly tell the customer that the current Red Hat Linux is not SMP
capable out of the box, but I think that's the worst you could accuse
them of.
Furthermore, you have to admit that if Dell is dealing with you or
Robert Brown at Duke, then I'm sure you would be rather put off if they
refused to sell you the extra CPUs because the current stuff doesn't
support them considering you know how to compile your own kernel.
Unlike Win98, you could fix your linux installation to use SMP. So
where do you draw the line for Dell on when they should or shouldn't
sell the extra CPUs?
Honestly, I think there may have been a breakdown in communications on
that sell. I also think that the problem can be remedied. I don't
think Dell should hold the hard line you suggest for the reasons I
listed. So, I think you are being unfairly harsh on them.
--
Doug Ledford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Opinions expressed are my own, but
they should be everybody's.
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