On Wed, 2026-10-21 at 10:01 +0200, Nam Cao wrote:
> Gabriele Monaco <[email protected]> writes:
> > Fair enough, I feel to be cautious at redefining what reactors are right
> > now,
> > though. Currently they are nothing but a function call to the set-up action.
> > It's trivial to verify where the code goes without adding the tracing
> > subsystem
> > as a dependency in the path (typically important in some safety critical
> > cases).
> > Sure, handlers are called by the same tracing subsystem nonetheless, so it
> > may
> > not add much value.
>
> I am thinking about dropping reactors entirely and only use
> bpf_printk. I have never been a fan of the panic reactor, crashing the
> system because of an RV violation is a bit much. And the printk reactor
> would be replaced by bpf_printk, just that the messages would be in
> tracing ring buffer instead of kernel log.
The panic reactor comes from the functional safety use case, imagine a system
with redundancy where the linux system is compromised by a violation, the only
safe state is to shut it down (with all vmcores and stack traces panic gives
you) and continue in emergency mode.
Right now that's still a potential use-case, no one that I know is using RV in
that context for a few other reasons.
I wouldn't completely drop reactors. That is, we can avoid implementing them in
BPF, but I wouldn't take design choices making them impossible in the future
(nothing occurred so far).
>
> Or do you already have potential future reactors in mind?
>
Well, I have a lot of ideas, not many requests so far ;)
I think of reactors whenever people want to integrate exotic things to RV.
Actions tied to the error tracepoints (what Tomas suggested, and I think you or
ThomasW also mentioned in the past) would probably work in many use-cases.
This doesn't affect the design, we'd still need something making tracepoints.
> > Let's leave reactors aside for a moment. What I am coming to terms with,
> > instead, is that the current ringbuffer to userspace design isn't what we
> > want.
> > In kernel monitors communicate their status through tracepoints, perfectly
> > integrating to tracing tools, BPF monitors use a custom buffer.
> >
> > Generating a tracepoint here is probably the way to go. bpf_printk does
> > generate
> > one, but as Tomas pointed out, hijacking that for everything (think of
> > monitor
> > events) might be a bit much.
> > Nonetheless, we want RV BPF handlers to generate tracepoints, then attaching
> > actions on error tracepoints (whether we call that reactors or not) can be
> > done
> > later.
> >
> > Summarising, we have 2 potential designs.
> >
> > 1. bpf_printk only:
> > bpf_printk("event: monitor: curr_state x event -> next_state")
> > bpf_printk("error: monitor: event not expected in curr_state")
> >
> > 2. new kfunc(s) calling a tracepoint:
> > trace_event_da_bpf("monitor", "curr_state", "event", "next_state")
> > trace_error_da_bpf("monitor", "curr_state", "event")
> >
> > 1. is simpler and works mostly out of the box, depending on how powerful
> > glob
> > filters are, it can reach the same functionality as 2. Might risk to
> > overload
> > the shared bpf_printk event and perhaps have a higher filtering overhead.
> > 2. is closest to the current in-kernel implementation and offers flexibility
> > to
> > easily filter the type of event (useful for DA, e.g. I want a backtrace only
> > when going from state A to B). But it requires a series of kfuncs (e.g.
> > error
> > and event for each monitor class).
> >
> > In both cases a malicious actor could call the kfunc and make us believe
> > there
> > was a reaction (they cannot mess with the model though). If we own the
> > kfuncs we
> > can at least limit the availability (tracing-only and CAP_SYS_BOOT).
> > This, unless we register BPF monitors in the kernel like in V1.
> >
> > I'm going to test each design once I get again to work on this.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> I vote 1, much simpler (but maybe I just haven't quite got the issue). I
> feel a bit ensure about adding RV kfuncs and would only go that route if
> there is no other way.
We can go down that route and see how it behaves.
Thanks,
Gabriele
