Hugo, my question: > > What are you doing on the clug group? was a bit tough.
I am sorry for that comment, and will endeavour to think three times before writing. However, (in my defense) I note a certain sadness. We read often of comments, "linux is ready for the desktop" and the like. Yet, if people on the linux list are advocating that "my parents" get a mac, then clearly those comments on the readiness of linux are wrong linux has to improve its usability. Indeed, watching the recent spate of emails from our Hari Krishna friend, I have to agree with you Hugo. Linux is not ready for "my parents" to use ================================= I also agree with you Hugo. > Hmm, well i don't want to start another Mac-Vs-Linux flamewar... I don't want a linux/mac flamewar. Indeed, flamewars are for people with too much spare time. Derek. ========================================================================= On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Hugo Vincent wrote: > Derek, > > Hmm, well i don't want to start another Mac-Vs-Linux flamewar... > > I use both Mac and Linux daily (and in my opinion, Mac is better :) but > that is irrelevant, the point is that a Mac is undoubtedly easier to > use for beginners, and you did say that: > >>> a) they are in Invercargill > >>> b) cannot be bothered with joining a *lug group > >>> c) expect to have something that "just" works. > Part (c) in particular just cries out "get a Mac" - they just work day > in day out. > > An eMac is about NZ$1500 i think and I can personally guarantee that it > will last longer than cheap PC hardware. Or you could get a second hand > one - my brother uses a 450MHz G4 as his main machine and it is very > fast and very usable. > > I am on the CLUG group because I work with embedded linux and as such > inevitably use Linux on a variety of machines. > > Hugo > > On 29/11/2004, at 12:49 PM, Derek Smithies wrote: > > > Hugo, > > the implication from your suggestion, "Get them a Mac" > > is that > > a) I have lots of money (false) > > > > b) Mac is superior in many ways to linux > > > > What are you doing on the clug group? > > > > Derek. > > > > On Mon, 29 Nov 2004, Hugo Vincent wrote: > > > >> Get them a Mac. > >> > >> > >> On 29/11/2004, at 12:09 PM, Derek Smithies wrote: > >> > >>> Hi, > >>> For the sake of the discussion, I will use the phrase, "my > >>> parents". > >>> In fact, I am referring to a potential new linux user, who maybe > >>> any age. The reason I ask, is that I have had this conversation with > >>> many people, and wondered what the consensus is. > >>> > >>> My parents have a win 95 machine, that is loaded down with avg etc > >>> etc, > >>> and cannot send email. > >>> > >>> what do you think would best suit my parents. > >>> semi computer literate. > >>> long term exposure to windows 95 > >>> notion of folders/directories is a bit vague > >>> > >>> they need a)email, b)webbrowsing, c)office. " > >>> > >>> Here is the sticky bit: > >>> However, given that > >>> a) they are in Invercargill > >>> b) cannot be bothered with joining a *lug group > >>> c) expect to have something that "just" works. > >>> > >>> > >>> Let me explain the requirements. > >>> They are in Invercargill, so a support trip is not easy. For that > >>> matter, > >>> they could be in Christchurch, but I cannot see them for the next 4 > >>> days. > >>> So, the actual amount of my support required better be low low. > >>> > >>> The are not going to joing *lug group to get help. No way are they > >>> going > >>> to download 10-100 messages a day, filter out the non useful answers > >>> etc. > >>> yes, filters "work", but they cannot be bothered with > >>> installing/using > >>> them. > >>> Worse, some of the answers are intensely time consuming. > >>> Video problems? Ah, go read www.xfree86.org, or, search google > >>> > >>> When you buy an appliance from the store, you take it home, plug it > >>> in, > >>> and it just works. Breadmakers, video recorders, cars take minimal > >>> effort > >>> to get going. > >>> Why is the same not true of computers? > >>> > >>> > >>> ================================== > >>> In an offline discussion, Nick made the comment:: > >>> > >>> yes its annoying that they haven't made a computer that just works > >>> yet. > >>> > >>> certainly microsoft is not the answer for them, given this post i > >>> read > >>> this morning on nzlug. > >>> > >>> http://www.linux.net.nz/lists/NZLUG/2004/11/0394.html > >>> > >>> Its that damn flexibilty thing, it implies complication. > >>> > >>> I wiuld try ubuntu, it gives them a straight up sensible defaults for > >>> browsing (firefox) , email (evolution) and it has OOo. They do not > >>> need > >>> to choose between konqueror, mozilla and firefox, nor between kmail, > >>> evo > >>> and mutt, nor between abiword, lyx and OOo. > >>> > >>> Its the sort of thing that would require a newer computer if they > >>> bought > >>> their last one with w95. Its also the sort of thing that you'd want > >>> to > >>> spend the weekend with them installing and explaining, but they > >>> should > >>> be able to grok firefox, evolution and OOo if they have used the MS > >>> fare. > >>> > >>> Are guis ever going to change? apart from getting prettier, the > >>> point. > >>> click, drag concept has been pretty constant for a while now..... > >>> > >>> ============================= > >>> Derek. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Derek Smithies Ph.D. This PC runs pine on > >>> linux for email > >>> IndraNet Technologies Ltd. If you find a virus > >>> apparently from me, it has > >>> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] forged the e-mail > >>> headers on someone else's machine > >>> ph +64 3 365 6485 Please do not notify > >>> me > >>> when (apparently) receiving a > >>> Web: http://www.indranet-technologies.com/ windows virus from > >>> me...... > >>> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > > Derek Smithies Ph.D. This PC runs pine on > > linux for email > > IndraNet Technologies Ltd. If you find a virus > > apparently from me, it has > > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] forged the e-mail > > headers on someone else's machine > > ph +64 3 365 6485 Please do not notify me > > when (apparently) receiving a > > Web: http://www.indranet-technologies.com/ windows virus from > > me...... > > > > > -- Derek Smithies Ph.D. This PC runs pine on linux for email IndraNet Technologies Ltd. If you find a virus apparently from me, it has Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] forged the e-mail headers on someone else's machine ph +64 3 365 6485 Please do not notify me when (apparently) receiving a Web: http://www.indranet-technologies.com/ windows virus from me......
