So many good threads on the list today, it is hard to choose. "You started the previous thread with a generic question about finding a PHP debugger."
I took this question to mean, "what programs do people on this list use for php debugging?". I thought Paul was looking for a list of programs, maybe like an 'apt-cache search socallinux:php-debugger' kind of list. I did not think Paul was asking for an unabridged list of every php-debugger on the internet, maybe just the ones the list members use. Let him figure out why they are cool. "As a side note on something I noticed in another email. You might be newer to Linux than some on the list you don't need to refer to yourself as a newbie." Humility is a good thing. "To be honest, there is nothing that has discouraged me from wanting to use Linux more than this user group." Socallinux is awesome. Sometimes Passion gets confused for anger and humor for insults. All in all, the list is awesome. I hope I have not discourage anyone on the list from using Linux; the same cannot be said about Window$. "It is my personal opinion that Mark Shuttleworth, and not a few others, have discarded the antiquated philosophy of RTM/LMGTFY, and that is the secret of their success." Many people conjecture about why Canonical/Ubuntu is so popular. I believe their popularity is due to: - The community is friendly. The ubuntuforums are very nice to noobs and their stupid questions. The forum users also get angry with (and sometimes take action against) nasty responses. - Ubuntu is based on the wonderfully stable Debian and APT/Synaptic are both easy to use and awesome. - The distro maintainers try to keep the most cutting edge versions of applications/drivers in the repositories which is ideal for a desktop user. - They have focused on getting Laptop/Desktop hardware to just work. "I agree--this place is not always the kindest, nor the easiest." Totally disagree, nothing but Socallinux <3... "Second, I think most GNU/Linux advocates/volunteers/users have adopted the general ideals you suggest for us (avoiding RTFM, being nice, etc.)..." On forums or on this list, RTFM is rarely used IMO, as it should be. On an active project developers list/forum, where people are trying to get real work done, there are still a few questions that reek of laziness and a general lack of trying. Occasionally LMGTFY+RTMFM will not even do the worst questions justice. i.e.) " I am a Window$ admin (for 10yrs) and I just started using Linux. In my expert opinion, Linux is way worse than Vista. Can anyone tell me how to change my background?" - a linux forum. "Linux is a business and it is my opinion that Linux should evolve with the trends of the day." Linux=/=Business. Canonical, Novell, Redhat and Hot Topic (TM) are Businesses. I suspect some OSX an Window$ users will not understand this but Linux is an Open Source software project that the business world has an interested in; they are not one in the same. I do not believe that Ubuntu or Linux should move in the direction of Window$. Linspire, Novell, Mandriva and others have tried 'WinLinux' Distros and none of them have turned out well IMO. Maybe Canonical will succeed with their OSX direction but I'm still using Gnome and they are not their yet. Linux evolves, as a project, faster than Window$ and OSX combined. I direct you to Greg Hartman on the Linux Kernel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2SED6sewRw <3 Socallinux, Chris... On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 6:32 PM, Paul Saenz <forensicneoph...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 8:01 AM, Mark Holmquist <marktrac...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> First, Linux is not a business. It is a community project, and it *works* >> that way. Canonical, >RH, Novell, and the like are businesses, but this >> mailing list is a bunch of loosely-organized >volunteers. > > Did I say that SocalLinux was a business? If I said that , then that > was a misstatement. I thought that what I said was that LInux was a > business, and I think it's safe to stand by that statement. Whether > you look at it from the standpoint of kernel development, the > individual distros or GNU or even the user, Linux is conducted as a > serious business. > > Even though it is presented as a community centered project, if I'm > not mistaken, because I could be wrong, but I had the impression that > there are many, if not the majority of significant development > contributors who get paid at least a reasonable if not competitive > tech salary, or contract. Nevertheless, regardless of that they, for > the most part, have a chain of command, goals, and business procedures > to say the least. They treat their business like a job, because they > want to make sure that their salary, or at least their clientèle > continues through to the next year and the year after that. > > I don't think I would be putting my head out on the chopping block if > I were to say that there is a strong possibility that the majority of > Linux users use Linux primarily for business. Regardless of having a > large number of people who would probably fit in the category of > hobbyist, it is still a business. Radio Control cars is a business > even though basically all RC car drivers are hobbyists. > > There are members in this group who qualify, if they do not at least > have a remote potential to contribute to those goals and prerogatives. > I think Ragi and others are bringing out some really good viewpoints > on the discussion of some Linux goals and direction. I know that Linux > is a big community, and it's kind of like far away in a distant land, > but they are having a discussion that at least parts of it would > probably be worthy of at least a once over by the Linux Execs. > _______________________________________________ > LinuxUsers mailing list > LinuxUsers@socallinux.org > http://socallinux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linuxusers > -- "As we open our newspapers or watch our television screens, we seem to be continually assaulted by the fruits of Mankind's stupidity." -Roger Penrose _______________________________________________ LinuxUsers mailing list LinuxUsers@socallinux.org http://socallinux.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linuxusers
