Hi Dino,

Thanks for your responses. See below for some comments (starting with
[AR2]). On those responses I have not commented, I agree with your
resolution or with your request for WG discussion.

Thanks,
Alberto

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:44 AM, Dino Farinacci <[email protected]> wrote:
> I actually had time earlier in this week to respond. See the rfcdiff.html 
> diff file attached. I have responded with 3 different types of responses:
>
> (1) Made the change, working group please ack. Is in diff file.
>
> (2) Did not make the change, requesting working group to discuss. Not in diff 
> file.
>
> (3) Solely my opinion that the change should not go in. Not in diff file.
>
>> On Oct 14, 2017, at 12:08 PM, Alberto Rodriguez-Natal 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> EIDs MUST NOT be used as LISP RLOCs.
>>
>> [AR] I think this sentence should be reworded, especially when it is
>> latter followed by sentences like: "In theory, the bit string that
>> represents an EID for one device can represent an RLOC for a different
>> device.”
>
> Response (1).
>
> I have removed the sentence.
>
>> The router then prepends an "outer" IP header with one of its globally
>> routable RLOCs in the source address field.
>>
>> [AR] There are several references to RLOCs being “global” through the
>> document, probably coming from the original Internet use-case. I would
>> suggest removing mentions to “globally routable” and replace them with
>> something along the lines of “routable in the RLOC space” or “routable
>> in the transit/underlay network”, etc.
>
> Response (2).
>
> Working group, what do you think the correct wording should be. I suggest:
>
> o “routable”
> o “routable in the underlay”
> o “routable in the RLOC space"

[AR2] My personal preference is "routable in the underlay", but any of
the three works for me.
>
>> The EID-to-RLOC map-cache is a short-lived, on-demand table in an ITR that 
>> store
>>
>> [AR] We probably should remove the note on the map-cache being
>> “short-lived” since that may not be the case in some deployments.
>
> Response (3).
>
> But it is in other deployments if you don’t want to use any of the update 
> mapping techniques, like map-versioning, SMRs, pubsub, and Map-Notify 
> messaging.

[AR2] I would suggest that at least we rephrase the sentence to say
something like: "The EID-to-RLOC map-cache is a (generally
short-lived) on-demand table in an ITR that stores..."
>
>> The same database mapping entries MUST be configured on all ETRs for a
>> given site.  In a steady state, the EID-Prefixes for the site and the
>> Locator-Set for each EID-Prefix MUST be the same on all ETRs.
>>
>> [AR] Is this still the case when overlapping prefixes and/or
>> merge-semantics are in place?
>
> Response (3).
>
> Well, yes. Let me answer with an example. Say there are two xTRs A and B and 
> they are connecting the LISP site for 10.0.0.0/8. Say 10.1.0.0/16 moves out 
> to another LISP site, a LISP site that is multihomed with xTRs A’ and B’. 
> Both A’ and B’ need to be configured (i.e. in this case discover) that the 
> /16 moved into their site.

[AR2] My question was more with regard to the Locator-Set. Let's say
that two different ETRs serving the same site are registering only
their own RLOCs and are leveraging on the merge-semantics capability
of the Map-Server to build a unified mapping. These two ETRs are in a
steady state but their Locator-Set is different for the same
EID-Prefix.
>
>> Address Family Identifier (AFI):  AFI is a term used to describe an
>> address encoding in a packet.  An address family currently pertains to
>> an IPv4 or IPv6 address.
>>
>> [AR] Although in some points the document mentions LCAF or other
>> address types for EID/RLOC, in most of the cases it assumes only
>> IPv4/v6. I think we should update the document to be more flexible and
>> relax those IP-only mentions (specially for EID cases).
>
> Response (1).
>
> I changed to “An address family that pertains to the data-plane, can be an 
> IPv4, IPv6, or MAC address."
>
>> Data-Probe:  A Data-Probe is a LISP-encapsulated data packet where the
>> inner-header destination address equals the outer-header destination
>> address used to trigger a Map-Reply by a decapsulating ETR.
>>
>> [AR] Is anyone using data-probes? I’d like to suggest removing this text.
>
> (3) response.
>
> Early on in the LISP design, service providers thought this was useful. We 
> have carefully doctored the text to make it security safe, but it does avoid 
> packet loss when setting up a first-time round-trip packet exchange. The 
> initiator’s packet causes the mapping database lookup, but the return packet 
> does not need a lookup.
>
> There might be specialized applications that may make use of it.
>
>> The ETR(s) at the destination LISP site are the first to send
>> Map-Replies to the source site initiating the connection.
>>
>> [AR] We may want to clarify here that this is the common case, but may
>> not be always (e.g. proxy-reply)
>
> Response (1).
>
> I changed to "The ETR(s) at the destination LISP site may be the first to 
> send Map-Replies to the source site initiating the connection".
>
>> In order to avoid excessive packet overhead as well as possible
>> encapsulation loops, this document mandates that a maximum of two LISP
>> headers can be prepended to a packet.
>>
>> [AR] It seems that a maximum of two headers is an arbitrary value.
>> Therefore, I suggest we replace "mandates" with "recommends”.
>
> Response (1).
>
> Changed to recommend.
>
>> When multiple organizations inside of a LISP site are using private
>> addresses [RFC1918] as EID-Prefixes, their address spaces MUST remain
>> segregated due to possible address duplication.  An Instance ID in the
>> address encoding can aid in making the entire AFI-based address
>> unique.
>>
>> [AR] This text is used to introduce the concept of Instance-IDs. I
>> don't think we should mention private addresses here. Instance ID may
>> be used even when not private addresses are in place or for purposes
>> other than possible address duplication. If anything, the private
>> addresses duplication should be an example only.
>
> Response (1).
>
> Making a reference to private addresses is actually very important. There are 
> a lot of container and VMs within cloud provider deployments that use it. It 
> is probably the most popular use-case of LISP.

[AR2] My intention was to state that we should not tie Instance-IDs to
the address duplication problem of private addresses. Indeed,
preventing address duplication is one of the major use-cases for
Instance-IDs but they are applicable beyond that particular use-case.
>
> I made a reference to the VPN spec which is now a WG draft.
>
>> An ITR SHOULD only set the E-bit in an encapsulated data packet when
>> it knows the ETR is
>> enabled for echo-noncing.  This is conveyed by the E-bit in the
>> Map-Reply message.
>>
>> [AR] There should be probably a mention to merge-semantics and/or
>> proxy-reply here.
>
> Response (3).
>
> Why? Merge semantics only apply to Map-Registers. Not the Map-Reply an ETR 
> sends to an ITR. That is when it conveys it can support echo-noncing.

[AR2] My point was that merge-semantics and proxy-reply may affect the
E-bit process. For instance, if the MS is merging different
Map-Registers, (some with the E-bit set, some without), which value
for the E-bit should the MS return in a Map-Reply?
>
>> Since the LISP architecture uses a caching scheme to retrieve and
>> store EID-to-RLOC mappings, the only way an ITR can get a more
>> up-to-date mapping is to re-request the mapping.
>>
>> [AR] We could relax this constrain and/or reference PubSub here.
>
> Response (2).
>
> Want the WG to decide if this individual submission should be referenced. I 
> think the pubsub design is simple and can work but we have little 
> implementation experience with it thusfar.
>
>> When adding a new Locator record in lexicographic order to the end of
>> a Locator-Set, it is easy to update mappings.  We assume that new
>> mappings will maintain the same Locator ordering as the old mapping
>> but will just have new Locators appended to the end of the list.  So,
>> some ITRs can have a new mapping while other ITRs have only an old
>> mapping that is used until they time out.  When an ITR has only an old
>> mapping but detects bits set in the Locator-Status-Bits that
>> correspond to Locators beyond the list it has cached, it simply
>> ignores them.
>>
>> [AR] Probably we could complement this paragraph with something like
>> "It is RECOMMENDED to notify the ITRs that they should update their
>> Map-Caches, e.g. via an SMR.”
>
> Response (3).
>
> We say this in other sections about updating mappings. In this paragraph, 
> there is a primary focus on locator-status-bits.
>
>> When a Locator record is removed from a Locator-Set, ITRs that have
>> the mapping cached will not use the removed Locator because the xTRs
>> will set the Locator-Status-Bit to 0.
>>
>> [AR] Since LSB are not mandatory and not used in many deployments we
>> should recommend notifying the affected ITRs via SMRs or PubSub.
>
> Response (3).
>
> The WG should discuss this. If you want to keep the locator-set in tact in 
> the ITR, using LSBs is a faster way to convey to not use a subset of the set.
>
>> As a result, an ETR will solicit Map-Requests (called an SMR message)
>> from those sites to which it has been sending encapsulated data for
>> the last minute.  In particular, an ETR will send an SMR to an ITR to
>> which it has recently sent encapsulated data.
>>
>> [AR] We should mention that this only works when the ETR is also an ITR.
>
> Response (1).
>
> Added text to support your suggestion.
>
>> It is important to note that a locator address in any LISP control
>> message MUST be a globally routable address and therefore SHOULD NOT
>> contain [RFC1918] addresses.
>>
>> [AR] The Internet use-case is less relevant today, therefore I’d
>> suggest removing the sentence regarding RFC1918.
>
> Response (1).
>
> I think we should add that there ARE allowed if run in a local environment.
>
>> Minor/Editorial:
>>
>> Expand the RTR acronym on its first appearance.
>
> Response (1)
>
> I moved it up right before the first RTR reference.
>
> Thanks,
> Dino
>

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