Thanks Luigi and Alberto for your subsequent comments. 

> On Oct 19, 2017, at 5:10 AM, Luigi Iannone <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Just stating my personal opinion here…

I encourage others to provide their opinion as well. I will wait until this 
weekend to send another update. 

We need more comments! So please write to the list!

Dino

> 
> 
>> On 19 Oct 2017, at 02:01, Alberto Rodriguez-Natal <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> 
> 
> [snip]
> 
>>>> The router then prepends an "outer" IP header with one of its globally
>>>> routable RLOCs in the source address field.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] There are several references to RLOCs being “global” through the
>>>> document, probably coming from the original Internet use-case. I would
>>>> suggest removing mentions to “globally routable” and replace them with
>>>> something along the lines of “routable in the RLOC space” or “routable
>>>> in the transit/underlay network”, etc.
>>> 
>>> Response (2).
>>> 
>>> Working group, what do you think the correct wording should be. I suggest:
>>> 
>>> o “routable”
>>> o “routable in the underlay”
>>> o “routable in the RLOC space"
>> 
>> [AR2] My personal preference is "routable in the underlay", but any of
>> the three works for me.
> 
> I would prefer “routable in the RLOC space” since this is what is needed. 
> 
>>> 
>>>> The EID-to-RLOC map-cache is a short-lived, on-demand table in an ITR that 
>>>> store
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] We probably should remove the note on the map-cache being
>>>> “short-lived” since that may not be the case in some deployments.
>>> 
>>> Response (3).
>>> 
>>> But it is in other deployments if you don’t want to use any of the update 
>>> mapping techniques, like map-versioning, SMRs, pubsub, and Map-Notify 
>>> messaging.
>> 
>> [AR2] I would suggest that at least we rephrase the sentence to say
>> something like: "The EID-to-RLOC map-cache is a (generally
>> short-lived) on-demand table in an ITR that stores…"
> 
> I agree with AR, we do not need to state how long the mappings are kept in a 
> cache, this is a management/implementation issue.
> 
> 
> 
>>> 
>>>> The same database mapping entries MUST be configured on all ETRs for a
>>>> given site.  In a steady state, the EID-Prefixes for the site and the
>>>> Locator-Set for each EID-Prefix MUST be the same on all ETRs.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] Is this still the case when overlapping prefixes and/or
>>>> merge-semantics are in place?
>>> 
>>> Response (3).
>>> 
>>> Well, yes. Let me answer with an example. Say there are two xTRs A and B 
>>> and they are connecting the LISP site for 10.0.0.0/8. Say 10.1.0.0/16 moves 
>>> out to another LISP site, a LISP site that is multihomed with xTRs A’ and 
>>> B’. Both A’ and B’ need to be configured (i.e. in this case discover) that 
>>> the /16 moved into their site.
>> 
>> [AR2] My question was more with regard to the Locator-Set. Let's say
>> that two different ETRs serving the same site are registering only
>> their own RLOCs and are leveraging on the merge-semantics capability
>> of the Map-Server to build a unified mapping. These two ETRs are in a
>> steady state but their Locator-Set is different for the same
>> EID-Prefix.
>>> 
>>>> Address Family Identifier (AFI):  AFI is a term used to describe an
>>>> address encoding in a packet.  An address family currently pertains to
>>>> an IPv4 or IPv6 address.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] Although in some points the document mentions LCAF or other
>>>> address types for EID/RLOC, in most of the cases it assumes only
>>>> IPv4/v6. I think we should update the document to be more flexible and
>>>> relax those IP-only mentions (specially for EID cases).
>>> 
>>> Response (1).
>>> 
>>> I changed to “An address family that pertains to the data-plane, can be an 
>>> IPv4, IPv6, or MAC address.”
> 
> Why you do not simply state “An address family that pertains to the 
> data-plane.” and that’s it.
> 
> 
>>> 
>>>> Data-Probe:  A Data-Probe is a LISP-encapsulated data packet where the
>>>> inner-header destination address equals the outer-header destination
>>>> address used to trigger a Map-Reply by a decapsulating ETR.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] Is anyone using data-probes? I’d like to suggest removing this text.
>>> 
>>> (3) response.
>>> 
>>> Early on in the LISP design, service providers thought this was useful. We 
>>> have carefully doctored the text to make it security safe, but it does 
>>> avoid packet loss when setting up a first-time round-trip packet exchange. 
>>> The initiator’s packet causes the mapping database lookup, but the return 
>>> packet does not need a lookup.
>>> 
>>> There might be specialized applications that may make use of it.
>>> 
>>>> The ETR(s) at the destination LISP site are the first to send
>>>> Map-Replies to the source site initiating the connection.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] We may want to clarify here that this is the common case, but may
>>>> not be always (e.g. proxy-reply)
>>> 
>>> Response (1).
>>> 
>>> I changed to "The ETR(s) at the destination LISP site may be the first to 
>>> send Map-Replies to the source site initiating the connection".
>>> 
>>>> In order to avoid excessive packet overhead as well as possible
>>>> encapsulation loops, this document mandates that a maximum of two LISP
>>>> headers can be prepended to a packet.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] It seems that a maximum of two headers is an arbitrary value.
>>>> Therefore, I suggest we replace "mandates" with "recommends”.
>>> 
>>> Response (1).
>>> 
>>> Changed to recommend.
>>> 
>>>> When multiple organizations inside of a LISP site are using private
>>>> addresses [RFC1918] as EID-Prefixes, their address spaces MUST remain
>>>> segregated due to possible address duplication.  An Instance ID in the
>>>> address encoding can aid in making the entire AFI-based address
>>>> unique.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] This text is used to introduce the concept of Instance-IDs. I
>>>> don't think we should mention private addresses here. Instance ID may
>>>> be used even when not private addresses are in place or for purposes
>>>> other than possible address duplication. If anything, the private
>>>> addresses duplication should be an example only.
>>> 
>>> Response (1).
>>> 
>>> Making a reference to private addresses is actually very important. There 
>>> are a lot of container and VMs within cloud provider deployments that use 
>>> it. It is probably the most popular use-case of LISP.
>> 
>> [AR2] My intention was to state that we should not tie Instance-IDs to
>> the address duplication problem of private addresses. Indeed,
>> preventing address duplication is one of the major use-cases for
>> Instance-IDs but they are applicable beyond that particular use-case.
> 
> I agree with AR. private addressing is a use case not the reason. Text should 
> be more generic. 
> 
> 
>>> 
>>> I made a reference to the VPN spec which is now a WG draft.
>>> 
>>>> An ITR SHOULD only set the E-bit in an encapsulated data packet when
>>>> it knows the ETR is
>>>> enabled for echo-noncing.  This is conveyed by the E-bit in the
>>>> Map-Reply message.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] There should be probably a mention to merge-semantics and/or
>>>> proxy-reply here.
>>> 
>>> Response (3).
>>> 
>>> Why? Merge semantics only apply to Map-Registers. Not the Map-Reply an ETR 
>>> sends to an ITR. That is when it conveys it can support echo-noncing.
>> 
>> [AR2] My point was that merge-semantics and proxy-reply may affect the
>> E-bit process. For instance, if the MS is merging different
>> Map-Registers, (some with the E-bit set, some without), which value
>> for the E-bit should the MS return in a Map-Reply?
>>> 
>>>> Since the LISP architecture uses a caching scheme to retrieve and
>>>> store EID-to-RLOC mappings, the only way an ITR can get a more
>>>> up-to-date mapping is to re-request the mapping.
> 
> wouldn’t be simpler to change the sentence in “….the only way an ITR can get 
> a more
> recent mapping is to update the mapping by any means available in the control 
> plane.”
> 
> This should be generic enough to cover the pub/sub case.
> 
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] We could relax this constrain and/or reference PubSub here.
>>> 
>>> Response (2).
>>> 
>>> Want the WG to decide if this individual submission should be referenced. I 
>>> think the pubsub design is simple and can work but we have little 
>>> implementation experience with it thusfar.
>>> 
>>>> When adding a new Locator record in lexicographic order to the end of
>>>> a Locator-Set, it is easy to update mappings.  We assume that new
>>>> mappings will maintain the same Locator ordering as the old mapping
>>>> but will just have new Locators appended to the end of the list.  So,
>>>> some ITRs can have a new mapping while other ITRs have only an old
>>>> mapping that is used until they time out.  When an ITR has only an old
>>>> mapping but detects bits set in the Locator-Status-Bits that
>>>> correspond to Locators beyond the list it has cached, it simply
>>>> ignores them.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] Probably we could complement this paragraph with something like
>>>> "It is RECOMMENDED to notify the ITRs that they should update their
>>>> Map-Caches, e.g. via an SMR.”
>>> 
>>> Response (3).
>>> 
>>> We say this in other sections about updating mappings. In this paragraph, 
>>> there is a primary focus on locator-status-bits.
> 
> It should harm to repeat it. 
> 
>>> 
>>>> When a Locator record is removed from a Locator-Set, ITRs that have
>>>> the mapping cached will not use the removed Locator because the xTRs
>>>> will set the Locator-Status-Bit to 0.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] Since LSB are not mandatory and not used in many deployments we
>>>> should recommend notifying the affected ITRs via SMRs or PubSub.
>>> 
>>> Response (3).
>>> 
>>> The WG should discuss this. If you want to keep the locator-set in tact in 
>>> the ITR, using LSBs is a faster way to convey to not use a subset of the 
>>> set.
>>> 
>>>> As a result, an ETR will solicit Map-Requests (called an SMR message)
>>>> from those sites to which it has been sending encapsulated data for
>>>> the last minute.  In particular, an ETR will send an SMR to an ITR to
>>>> which it has recently sent encapsulated data.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] We should mention that this only works when the ETR is also an ITR.
>>> 
>>> Response (1).
>>> 
>>> Added text to support your suggestion.
>>> 
>>>> It is important to note that a locator address in any LISP control
>>>> message MUST be a globally routable address and therefore SHOULD NOT
>>>> contain [RFC1918] addresses.
>>>> 
>>>> [AR] The Internet use-case is less relevant today, therefore I’d
>>>> suggest removing the sentence regarding RFC1918.
>>> 
>>> Response (1).
>>> 
>>> I think we should add that there ARE allowed if run in a local environment.
>>> 
> 
> I agree with AR. Sentence should be removed. It is consistent with the very 
> first comment about RLOCs being routable in the RLOC space.
> If your RLOC space is the Internet then you cannot use RFC1918 addresses.
> 
> Ciao
> 
> L.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>>> Minor/Editorial:
>>>> 
>>>> Expand the RTR acronym on its first appearance.
>>> 
>>> Response (1)
>>> 
>>> I moved it up right before the first RTR reference.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Dino
>>> 
>> 
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> 

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