On Fri, 3 Oct 2008 18:18:55 -0400, you wrote: >1. We are dealing with an electrical fire. (Said to be the most likely type of >fire at the start of the discussion) >2. We disconnect the primary electrical source/s. (Eliminating a possible heat >source, and also make it safer to fight the fire) >3. We cannot afford the means to flood the entire compartment with dry chem or >CO2 so we have to apply it directly to the fire. >4. We cannot see the spot where the fire exists because there is so much >smoke. (Again said to be the most likely situation) >5. We must remove the smoke and replace it with air. >6. We blow cool air into the compartment because if we suck the hot air we >might melt down the fan or the duct. >7. We begin to see the spot where the fire exists and blast it with CO2 to >kill it. >8. We survive.Norm might be on the right path. I will wait for the explanation. > >Cheers >Ahmet >SV8827 > I have not actually been in Norm's engine room, but Bob says it is bigger than our whole boat. So maybe it is more like a house fire than a boat fire.
However if it is an electrical fire and we disconnect the electric, how is the fan going to work. >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 17:01:13 -0400From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: >Re: [Liveaboard] FW: RE: TWL2:) Re: ReliablityIn my Captains class we spent a >good portion of day discussing this. We also had a professional Firefighter >in class too. He was a nut about the triangle! Which is why I brought it up. >As for how one should put out a fire in the engine room... The books say an >extinguisher in the engine room, if that fails shoot some in from a handheld >unit from a hole or crack as small as possible to keep the introduction of O2 >as small as possible. Aboard Dulcinea we have 2 Halon Extinguishers (still >good so...) one as a permanent install then a handheld next to the stairs >going to the Aft Cabin. And in tose same stairs a clear plastic covered hole >(2"?) in which to shove the tip of the extinguisher into. Hopefully they will >never be used. After that about 5 small hand helds as well to go through as >well.God forbid you need more!!!!! Or that ! this happens. I have fought some nice grease fires in ovens in restaurants with fire extinguishers. Scary how the intro of O2 creates a flare up. Also, Halon kills, while the newer ones don't immediately so be forewarned as well. I do believe that every owner and crew old enough to handle a fire extinguisher should use one before needing them in an emergency, they have a powerful kick when set off.So Norm, I am vastly curious as to reasoning, way the fans blow etc... as you might have a position/thought that has not occurred to us.NoelN.Y. RUSSELLOffice Coffee Service "Java Powered Service" -----Original Message-----From: "Rosalie B." Sent: Fri, 03 October 2008 15:56:37 I was thinking about this too. You are correct about the legs of the fire triangle. One leg is fuel (the boat itself OR the diesel in the fuel tanks -diesel is not flammable, but it certainly is combustible or it wouldn't work as fuel), one is oxygen and one is heat. So when we want to put out a fire we want to cut one or more fire legs off. When we use water to put out a fire, the water cools, and also may act to cut off the oxygen. A CO2 or foam extinguisher or a freon bottle cuts off the oxygen. Fire breaks or non-combustible insulation act to reduce fuel.In the case of an electrical or fuel fire we don't usually use water. Fuel will float on the water and keep burning. But at the same time we don't want to allow the fire more oxygen so it can burn better. It is true that smoke obscures the fire, but that's often (IMHO because I am not an expert on this)because there's not much air there. There will probably also be (with the smoke) some carbon monoxide, which is more dangerous than the smoke. Opening up the engine room to air may make the fire easier to see, but it may also make it flare up and get hotter and more aggressive. It will be a challenge to see whether you can put out a much bigger fire fast enough when you can see it. Have a picture of a man trying to fight a large house fire with a garden hose.At some point the fire will get too big to fight.I would prefer to enclose the fire and cut all ventilation off if possible. We have a freon extinguisher in our engine room, but it is smaller than Norms is. Also with such an extinguishing system, you would not be able to go into the space at all as if the fire didn't have air, neither would a firefighter. >>From: Arild Jensen >Norm a question here. Would it make more sense to suck >>out the smoke >or bring fresh air into the Engine room full of >>smoke?>>Pushing air into the compartment would mean some of the smoke might >>get >pushed into the rest of the boat such as through the open E/R >>hatch.>>Seems to me that >pulling air from the interior of the vessels and >pushing the smoke directly >outboard might be more effective. And of >course if there is any toxic >components in the smoke, you get it away >from the boat faster.>Arild>Norm of >Bandersnatch wrote:>>> I picked up on the fire issue. >>> snip >>To this end I >have almost completed fabrication and installation of a>> large vent, 4" x >20", with a automotive radiator fan to blow air into the>> engine room to >allow me to enter the space whilst clearing it of most of>> the smoke so can >get to the fire.>> Norm _______________________________________________ Liveaboard mailing list [email protected] To adjust your membership settings over the web http://www.liveaboardnow.org/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The archives are at http://www.liveaboardnow.org/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
