> > To do this properly all the way around, you need literally years of > training. People who have had all that training often forget what it > took - including years of being around people who *think* about guns > every day - but as a teacher, that's precisely the thing that I have to > stay aware of, and it's a very large amount of knowledge. >
You may be right. I was raised around guns and spent most of my adult life till middle age immersed in them and various complex and not so complex weapons systems, but I still think that a person of average intellegence could be brought up to speed well enough to defend himself without expending as much ammo as you seem to think. Of course there is the variable implied as to what level of training is considered sufficient. As far as SEALS or SPEC OP training, I do know that there are times when they will burn a lot more, but most of the time they do not. > In a world where the other issues didn't exist, I'd have something > simple and sweet in NATO .308, with a selector switch. Yeah I really liked the M-14. One great weapon. (BTW I loved the M2, dislike the M60, but the one I really hated was the old 20mms, always jammed hot, could never get them to work consistently no matter how much I 'babied' them. Always my fault of course.) BUT even the M-14 was not as reliable as a Mauser bolt action, or not quite as accurate as the 6.5 X 55 round which also out performs the .308 ballisticly. And I agree that there is certainly something to be said for fast full or semi auto fire at times, but a Mini 14 can do that real well close in and is more compact all the way around. I have fired but never really used 'bull pup' designs so will stick with what I know here, or I would recommend them for even more compactness. I don't much care for the M4's record which would be my top choice based on its size and flexibility. For longer ranges I still prefer a bolt action, old fashioned I guess. Besides it's hard to beat that design for reliability and tolerance of abuse. If the auto Ljungman was inherently as accurate as the M96 or 38 (Swede bolt actions) maybe I would go with just one rifle. Or maybe some of the newer short case 6.5's will live up to their potential. But I have had this rifle (Swede 6.5 X 55) aboard at times for many years now and it is well proven in all respects. I would not go for the waterline first if I could get the person steering quickly then knock out the engine fast. Do that and you got 'em right now. Holes in the waterline, even a bunch of them, will take some time to take effect. > > > Home defense is a specialized situation - and it has not one single > thing in common with dealing with piracy on the high seas. I'm not even > sure why you've brought it up. > > Just to make the point that not all situations call for a very high level of constant training. >> Of course I wasn't in >> competition, I know those who were might use the amount mentioned, but >> you don't need to go through that much to be throughly capable of >> defending yourself. >> > > This is, of course, a matter of opinion. I would say that you need to go > through 10 to 20 times that amount, with a good instructor in the > beginning at least, to be _thoroughly_ capable. > Guess it depends on what you mean by that. And again, you may be right, since I am not the most objective observer here, and don't have your experience teaching. I have taught *some*, but those I taught mostly already had some previous experience and training. Most of the ones I taught that did not, it was only a basic 'familiarization' course. But having said that, were I to go to the range and burn some rounds, I would bet I could get the job done plenty adequately, even though I have not fired anything other than my own personal weapons for many years. I may be rusty, but I am sure I have not totally forgotten either. My point here is that I believe if you were trained well to begin with, although you would not be at 100% if you did not keep your practice, nonetheless you should be sufficiently able to defend. As long as you did not get too fat and slow anyway, and I have known a bunch of fat guys who were dead-eye shots. I am not saying that being really up to speed is not better, but I am saying that for most situations with cruising boats where most people would find it difficult if not impossible to keep up that level of training, there can be a workable compromise. > > Statistics from the US Army, ca. Vietnam era: in an average squad of 10 > people when they first come under fire, *one* will have the presence of > mind to shoot back. > > I am sure that things changed in the decades since. I joined just after Nam. At times, we had plenty of $ to spend on ammo and training, other times not, but overall we DID train a LOT, and having seen the results in various situations that demanded it I can say no one I saw did not respond appropriately, even to the point of NOT blowing the drunken foreign national sailors head off with an M 870 shotgun during the security alert when he suddenly dropped down onto the passageway just behind the team members from his hiding place in the dark. You can bet THAT took some restraint! But maybe sailors on different Security Teams and Forces train more than the average infantryman. Anyway as you noted the other issues trump all these considerations so it is really a moot subject. Wish it WERE possible to be able to defend yourself...why shouldn't a law abiding person be allowed to defend with weapons adequate to repel those law breakers when it is the case that the Governments can't or won't? But oh well this is the modern world we live in. -Ken _______________________________________________ Liveaboard mailing list [email protected] To adjust your membership settings over the web http://www.liveaboardnow.org/mailman/listinfo/liveaboard To subscribe send an email to [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] The archives are at http://www.liveaboardnow.org/pipermail/liveaboard/ To search the archives http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] The Mailman Users Guide can be found here http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-member/index.html
