Am 13.04.2013 01:34, schrieb Tim E. Real: > (I tend to disagree about no parts on the Input and Output tracks though. > I would enjoy parts on them so automation could be easily grouped and > moved around.)
Meh, if you like to... I have no problem with those parts, I just don't see their sense :) > > Synths are technically both midi devices and audio tracks > ( that is they inherit BOTH classes). [...] > Don't forget it was probably easier for the original dev to do it this way > due to the midi editor graphs and lack of unified audio+midi controllers. > Well at least we can hide synths from view for now. > Operating their audio controllers from a midi editor involves more > stuff related to the unified controllers, or instead presenting both > audio and midi controllers to the user there. Even if they're technically/internally the same: Intuitively they are not. And we want to create a User-friendly DAW and not a Developer-friendly one, right? I BTW also disagree about synthes being Tracks internally. No doubt this is the way it's currently done, but IMHO synthes should be not tracks. They should be at a similar level in the class hierarchy as Midi outputs (i think MidiDevice is the class name?) Synthes should be just "things where you can stuff note and controller information into". Not less and not more. Of course, controller graphs MUST be drawn in the MIDI tracks then, because there is no synth track to hold them any more. But i'd like that anyway. > One problem is that if we allow audio controllers inside parts, then we > need some kind of part editor to open the parts and show the automation. > Because it's difficult to allow the user to draw points /inside/ the parts > directly on an audio track (consider overlapping parts headaches, > and selected parts are solid black etc). I'd do this similarly to the MIDI controllers: add a controller editor on the bottom of the window. Overlapping parts (which are at editing-time a headache anyway) would be handled by just opening a wave editor for *one* wave part, and not for all (remember, you can display only some MIDI parts in your pianoroll editor. The Waveeditor can do the same). > > Consider group tracks: They are not midi so opening any proposed > Group track 'parts' in the midi editor makes no sense. > Nor are they Wave tracks, so adding audio controller graphs to the > Wave Editor would be welcome but make no sense here either. > Perhaps a new separate 'automation' graph editor. Make it embeddable > so that we can re-use it inside both the Midi Editor and the Wave Editor ! > > (Strangely enough, related to Geoff's question about Groups in another > thread, I propose that Group tracks might be able to handle midi as well. > Imagine. Maybe Midi Group tracks? Not saying it'd be easy but still...) Group-Midi-Tracks sound nice, we should do this. Note that i don't want to fully abandon track-controllers. (I just want to abandon synth-controllers, which ought to be in MIDI parts/tracks instead, and i want that *every* kind of track offers track-controllers AND part-controllers; at least if there are parts.) In my imagination, the use-case for part controllers is: - In a MIDI track, enrich a tune with volume, pan and effect changes - In a Wave track, enrich a recording with volume, pan and effect change - When moving the part, these changes move together with it, because they're stored in the part. - When parts are overlapping, and have a disjunct set of controllers, just apply all of their controller settings. (I often tend to create one MIDI part with just melody, and an overlapping part with volume, and another overlapping part with pan. No problem here) - When parts are overlapping, and have contradicting controller values (i.e. when one part says "set volume to 100%" and the other says "set volume to 20%", then the behaviour is undefined, basically the last controller event is honored. This is already done with MIDI, and there is no way to gracefully handle that. Just don't do that, musicians!) Summary: part-controllers are for and only for enriching tunes or recordings with effects. The use-case for track-controllers is: - First a definition of "mixing" controller values: Depending on the controller type (volume and pan need to be treated differently), multiply (and normalize) the controller values (vol), or average both values (pan). - Track-controllers are always mixed with the part-set controllers. - In a MIDI track with lots of parts having loudness changes, slowly fade out (as in quieten) the whole track, over a time of 30-120 secs. - Same in a Wave track This also means, that Group Tracks may have Track-controllers, but I can see no sense in part-controllers for group tracks. > > Wow, there's so much material to cover here, so many angles, overlapping > points and ideas, gives-and-takes. > I could go on for pages but it gets too long so I'll cut it short for now. Indeed! Greetings, flo > > Tim. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Precog is a next-generation analytics platform capable of advanced > analytics on semi-structured data. The platform includes APIs for building > apps and a phenomenal toolset for data science. Developers can use > our toolset for easy data analysis & visualization. Get a free account! > http://www2.precog.com/precogplatform/slashdotnewsletter > _______________________________________________ > Lmuse-developer mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/lmuse-developer >
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