I agree that util packages are out of scope for BC. That's especially true in log4j-api where everything else has BC concerns.
On 7 September 2016 at 21:14, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > I do not think NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM is a good example > because the Core util package is or should out of bounds for BC. I thought > we had "agreed" on that. > > Gary > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> We should make an effort not to break compatibility unless it's >> unavoidable. There is usually a way to accomplish things without breaking >> BC. >> >> This is doubly true for plugins but should be our policy in general. >> >> We should not make breaking changes for aesthetic reasons. For example, >> NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM would have been better named >> INSTANCE, but this is one thing I would not change at this stage. >> >> One of the reasons people (I think on the Spark mailing list) mentioned >> for putting off upgrading from Log4j 1.2 to Log4j 2 was worries we would >> make breaking changes. >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 2016/09/08, at 8:03, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> >> wrote: >> >>> We really need to document what we want to strive to maintain >>> compatibility with in core. Basic components like Appenders and their >>> managers, Filters, Layouts, & Lookups or pretty much any Plugin type would >>> be at the top of my list. >>> >> >> Bleh, then we need to mark methods in some @tag-way in Javadocs. >> >> Gary >> >>> >>> Ralph >>> >>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> We should do this before starting the 2.7 release. >>>> If we are serious about being the replacement for Log4j 1.2 we should >>>> not break user code for no good reason. >>>> >>> >>> What does this have to do with 1.2? >>> >>> Gary >>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:25 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I think that would be good. >>>>> >>>>> Based on the number of Jira tickets being filed we are beginning to >>>>> see increased uptake. Programmatic configuration is used surprisingly >>>>> often. Leaving the factory methods in with some reasonable default for the >>>>> missing parameters ensures existing users can smoothly upgrade. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>> On 2016/09/07, at 3:03, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> All the commits that removed deprecated factory methods it sounds like. >>>>> >>>>> On 6 September 2016 at 13:00, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrot >>>>>> e: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Should we revert those commits? There's still time. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What commit? Do you mean to add back factory methods? >>>>>> >>>>>> Gary >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 3 September 2016 at 01:12, Ralph Goers <ralph.goers@dslextreme. >>>>>>> com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Perhaps we shouldn’t have. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We've already removed several deprecated factories in this upcoming >>>>>>>> release, though. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 2 September 2016 at 06:28, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine >>>>>>>> .com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I agree with Remko, let's keep them unless they are in the way. We >>>>>>>>> can remove all of them in Log4j 3.0. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It was mentioned on a mailing list or twitter conversation with >>>>>>>>>> maintainers of another Apache project that one of the reasons they >>>>>>>>>> hesitate >>>>>>>>>> to migrate to Log4j is that they worry we will break binary >>>>>>>>>> compatibility. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Removing the factory methods just because we deprecated them >>>>>>>>>> seems a bit harsh. >>>>>>>>>> It's not like it's a huge maintenance effort to keep them. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I would not remove the deprecated factory methods unless they >>>>>>>>>> actively prevent us from doing something we want to do. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Remko >>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 2016/09/02, at 6:29, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Well, Java seems to have a policy of waiting at least 10 years, >>>>>>>>>> if ever…. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Seriously, I don’t think 1 minor release is enough as that might >>>>>>>>>> very well be the next release. I’d say 2 minor releases and at >>>>>>>>>> least 6 >>>>>>>>>> months. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think that when you add a builder and deprecate the factory, >>>>>>>>>> you should remove it in the next 2.x release. Otherwise, deprecation >>>>>>>>>> has no >>>>>>>>>> point if there's no version with the deprecation specified. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 1 September 2016 at 13:40, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.co >>>>>>>>>> m> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> When can we delete factory methods that are deprecated by >>>>>>>>>>> builders? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>> <http://www.magine.com/> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >> >> > > > -- > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> > Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > -- Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com>
