I do not think NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM is a good example because the Core util package is or should out of bounds for BC. I thought we had "agreed" on that.
Gary On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote: > We should make an effort not to break compatibility unless it's > unavoidable. There is usually a way to accomplish things without breaking > BC. > > This is doubly true for plugins but should be our policy in general. > > We should not make breaking changes for aesthetic reasons. For example, > NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM would have been better named > INSTANCE, but this is one thing I would not change at this stage. > > One of the reasons people (I think on the Spark mailing list) mentioned > for putting off upgrading from Log4j 1.2 to Log4j 2 was worries we would > make breaking changes. > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 2016/09/08, at 8:03, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> > wrote: > >> We really need to document what we want to strive to maintain >> compatibility with in core. Basic components like Appenders and their >> managers, Filters, Layouts, & Lookups or pretty much any Plugin type would >> be at the top of my list. >> > > Bleh, then we need to mark methods in some @tag-way in Javadocs. > > Gary > >> >> Ralph >> >> On Sep 7, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> We should do this before starting the 2.7 release. >>> If we are serious about being the replacement for Log4j 1.2 we should >>> not break user code for no good reason. >>> >> >> What does this have to do with 1.2? >> >> Gary >> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:25 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I think that would be good. >>>> >>>> Based on the number of Jira tickets being filed we are beginning to see >>>> increased uptake. Programmatic configuration is used surprisingly often. >>>> Leaving the factory methods in with some reasonable default for the missing >>>> parameters ensures existing users can smoothly upgrade. >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>> On 2016/09/07, at 3:03, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> All the commits that removed deprecated factory methods it sounds like. >>>> >>>> On 6 September 2016 at 13:00, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Should we revert those commits? There's still time. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What commit? Do you mean to add back factory methods? >>>>> >>>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 3 September 2016 at 01:12, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com >>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Perhaps we shouldn’t have. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We've already removed several deprecated factories in this upcoming >>>>>>> release, though. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 2 September 2016 at 06:28, Mikael Ståldal <mikael.staldal@magine >>>>>>> .com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I agree with Remko, let's keep them unless they are in the way. We >>>>>>>> can remove all of them in Log4j 3.0. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It was mentioned on a mailing list or twitter conversation with >>>>>>>>> maintainers of another Apache project that one of the reasons they >>>>>>>>> hesitate >>>>>>>>> to migrate to Log4j is that they worry we will break binary >>>>>>>>> compatibility. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Removing the factory methods just because we deprecated them >>>>>>>>> seems a bit harsh. >>>>>>>>> It's not like it's a huge maintenance effort to keep them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I would not remove the deprecated factory methods unless they >>>>>>>>> actively prevent us from doing something we want to do. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Remko >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2016/09/02, at 6:29, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Well, Java seems to have a policy of waiting at least 10 years, if >>>>>>>>> ever…. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Seriously, I don’t think 1 minor release is enough as that might >>>>>>>>> very well be the next release. I’d say 2 minor releases and at least >>>>>>>>> 6 >>>>>>>>> months. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think that when you add a builder and deprecate the factory, you >>>>>>>>> should remove it in the next 2.x release. Otherwise, deprecation has >>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>> point if there's no version with the deprecation specified. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 1 September 2016 at 13:40, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> > wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> When can we delete factory methods that are deprecated by >>>>>>>>>> builders? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> [image: MagineTV] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal* >>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Magine TV* >>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>> <http://www.magine.com/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this >>>>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message >>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you >>>>>>>> may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case, >>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>> <ggreg...@apache.org> >>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >>>>> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >> <ggreg...@apache.org> >> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >> <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> >> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> >> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> >> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >> >> >> > > > -- > E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org > Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition > <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> > JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> > Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> > Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com > Home: http://garygregory.com/ > Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > > -- E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/bauer3/> JUnit in Action, Second Edition <http://www.manning.com/tahchiev/> Spring Batch in Action <http://www.manning.com/templier/> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com Home: http://garygregory.com/ Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory
