Okay. Shall we introduce an @Internal annotation? Sent from my iPhone
> On 2016/09/08, at 12:52, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I agree that util packages are out of scope for BC. That's especially true in > log4j-api where everything else has BC concerns. > >> On 7 September 2016 at 21:14, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >> I do not think NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM is a good example because >> the Core util package is or should out of bounds for BC. I thought we had >> "agreed" on that. >> >> Gary >> >>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 5:29 PM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> We should make an effort not to break compatibility unless it's >>> unavoidable. There is usually a way to accomplish things without breaking >>> BC. >>> >>> This is doubly true for plugins but should be our policy in general. >>> >>> We should not make breaking changes for aesthetic reasons. For example, >>> NullOutputStream.NULL_OUTPUT_STREAM would have been better named INSTANCE, >>> but this is one thing I would not change at this stage. >>> >>> One of the reasons people (I think on the Spark mailing list) mentioned for >>> putting off upgrading from Log4j 1.2 to Log4j 2 was worries we would make >>> breaking changes. >>> >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>>> On 2016/09/08, at 8:03, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 1:02 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> We really need to document what we want to strive to maintain >>>>> compatibility with in core. Basic components like Appenders and their >>>>> managers, Filters, Layouts, & Lookups or pretty much any Plugin type >>>>> would be at the top of my list. >>>> >>>> Bleh, then we need to mark methods in some @tag-way in Javadocs. >>>> >>>> Gary >>>>> >>>>> Ralph >>>>> >>>>>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 11:05 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 11:41 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> We should do this before starting the 2.7 release. >>>>>>> If we are serious about being the replacement for Log4j 1.2 we should >>>>>>> not break user code for no good reason. >>>>>> >>>>>> What does this have to do with 1.2? >>>>>> >>>>>> Gary >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 7:25 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> I think that would be good. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Based on the number of Jira tickets being filed we are beginning to >>>>>>>> see increased uptake. Programmatic configuration is used surprisingly >>>>>>>> often. Leaving the factory methods in with some reasonable default for >>>>>>>> the missing parameters ensures existing users can smoothly upgrade. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2016/09/07, at 3:03, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> All the commits that removed deprecated factory methods it sounds >>>>>>>>> like. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 6 September 2016 at 13:00, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:31 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> Should we revert those commits? There's still time. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> What commit? Do you mean to add back factory methods? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On 3 September 2016 at 01:12, Ralph Goers >>>>>>>>>>>> <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps we shouldn’t have. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 2, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> We've already removed several deprecated factories in this >>>>>>>>>>>>> upcoming release, though. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2 September 2016 at 06:28, Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mikael.stal...@magine.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Remko, let's keep them unless they are in the way. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can remove all of them in Log4j 3.0. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:31 AM, Remko Popma >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It was mentioned on a mailing list or twitter conversation with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> maintainers of another Apache project that one of the reasons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they hesitate to migrate to Log4j is that they worry we will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> break binary compatibility. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Removing the factory methods just because we deprecated them >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems a bit harsh. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's not like it's a huge maintenance effort to keep them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would not remove the deprecated factory methods unless they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actively prevent us from doing something we want to do. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Remko >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2016/09/02, at 6:29, Ralph Goers >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, Java seems to have a policy of waiting at least 10 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> years, if ever…. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, I don’t think 1 minor release is enough as that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> might very well be the next release. I’d say 2 minor releases >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and at least 6 months. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ralph >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 1, 2016, at 1:42 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that when you add a builder and deprecate the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> factory, you should remove it in the next 2.x release. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Otherwise, deprecation has no point if there's no version >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with the deprecation specified. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 September 2016 at 13:40, Gary Gregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <garydgreg...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When can we delete factory methods that are deprecated by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> builders? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mikael Ståldal >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Senior software developer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Magine TV >>>>>>>>>>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> message >>>>>>>>>>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such >>>>>>>>>>>>>> case, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by >>>>>>>>>>>>>> reply email. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>>>>>> Spring Batch in Action >>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>>>> Spring Batch in Action >>>>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >>>> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >>>> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >>>> Spring Batch in Action >>>> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >>>> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >>>> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory >> >> >> >> -- >> E-Mail: garydgreg...@gmail.com | ggreg...@apache.org >> Java Persistence with Hibernate, Second Edition >> JUnit in Action, Second Edition >> Spring Batch in Action >> Blog: http://garygregory.wordpress.com >> Home: http://garygregory.com/ >> Tweet! http://twitter.com/GaryGregory > > > > -- > Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com>
