Correction related to SRv6 as if uses the native IPv6 data plane it does
out of the box support summarization.

A gap still exists for MPLS and SR-MPLS.

Kind Regards

Gyan

On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 7:18 AM Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>
> Aijun Wang
> China Telecom
>
> On Nov 22, 2021, at 18:44, Tony Przygienda <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 
> Just to prop a voice of support to Tony Li's arguments which I have
> nothing further to add really. He basically elucidated ;-) with flourishes
> what I wrote in my short, terse email I think.
>
> As he says "you either make easy choices and get an operationally unstable
> environment at scale/large disturbances or you make hard architectural
> choices & scale much better over time".
>
>
> [WAJ] Easy choices doesn’t definitely get operationally unstable
> environment(we have explained in previous mails). And would you give some
> examples to illustrate “hard architecture but scale much better over time?”
>
> Examples of that are abound in systems design but it's unfortunately often
> RFC1295 (4). As a sidenote: IETF has no intention or mechanism to stop
> people doing unscalable, poorly designed things with their specs
>
>
> [WAJ] like RIFT or flood reflector solutions in IGP?
>
> and that was ok as long people did not try to push them onto the whole
> world without listening to folks who took the scar tissue to get us the
> IETF working specs we have today which seems to have become fashionable in
> last couple of years.
>
>
> And fast flooding is a red herring here IMO, it does nothing but
> accelerate the control loop, if the control loop is positively stable, it's
> good, if the control loops are oscillating or start to negatively amplify
> accelerating things just melts everything faster.
>
>
> [WAJ] There is no control loop oscillation. We track only the down event.
>
>
> Ultimately, having followed this "discussion" my opinion is still that if
> authors would like to abuse IGP as "domain wide broadcast" for liveliness
> notification the "events" draft is far less fragile and convoluted but
> should be kept in a service instance as basically "event based BFD
> substitute" to not start to cause head-blocking on IGP resources.
>
>
> [WAJ] Seems you are not listening other person’s discussion. Please refer
> to Acee’s comments at
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/zzaPetGzjHsu49KcyBrixQlo5G8/
>
> And AFAIR Robert observed it's still not a very good indication compared
> to BFD, a good solution would be e.g. in PE case a (hierarchical) MP2MP BFD
> PMSI (assuming UDP healthy = TCP healthy which is however far less an
> assumption than "flooding feels transport is OK").
>
>
> [WAJ] Current solutions are not aimed only the BGP overlay service, but
> also the tunnel services. For tunnel services how you build MP2MP PMSI?
>
>
> -- tony
>
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 7:55 AM Tony Li <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Les,
>>
>>
>> The problem is that restricting the prefix length does nothing to limit
>> the number of advertisements that get flooded.  In a high-scale situation,
>> when there is a mass failure, it would lead to a flooding spike. That’s
>> exactly not the time to stress the system.
>>
>> *[LES:] As I have stated previously, I share your concern about the
>> behavior during massive events – and some care has to be taken to prevent
>> making a bad situation worse.*
>> *That said, the WG (including you and I)  is taking on enhancements to
>> support much faster flooding – on the order of hundreds (perhaps thousands)
>> of LSPs/second. We believe this can be done safely (though proof has not
>> yet been established).*
>>
>>
>>
>> And the point of doing that was to help improve IGP convergence time…
>>
>>
>> *So, if you believe (as your active participation suggests) that IGPs can
>> support faster flooding – why do you believe they cannot support liveness
>> notification at a similar scale?*
>>
>>
>>
>> … not waste our time by inflating the LSDB by the same amount that we
>> sped up flooding.
>>
>> Also, I don’t see how faster flooding has ANYTHING to do with it. Adding
>> negative liveness information is primary a scale issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> *I get that you consider such notifications as architecturally
>> undesirable – we can agree to disagree on that point.*
>> *But I don’t get why you think the IGP’s ability to handle large scale
>> events is a showstopper in this case.*
>>
>>
>>
>> I am opposed to anything that adds to the scale of the LSDB. Doubly so if
>> it does so during failures, when the IGP is already under stress. As you
>> well know, making an IGP stable during normal operations is one thing.
>> Ensuring that it is stable during worst case topological changes is quite
>> another. Adding scale during a mass failure is pessimal timing.
>>
>> T
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>
> --

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *

*Email [email protected] <[email protected]>*



*M 301 502-1347*
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