Are you saying this draft is useless ?

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-srv6-extensions/

Thx,
R.


On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 2:54 PM Gyan Mishra <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Correction related to SRv6 as if uses the native IPv6 data plane it does
> out of the box support summarization.
>
> A gap still exists for MPLS and SR-MPLS.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Gyan
>
> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 7:18 AM Aijun Wang <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Aijun Wang
>> China Telecom
>>
>> On Nov 22, 2021, at 18:44, Tony Przygienda <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Just to prop a voice of support to Tony Li's arguments which I have
>> nothing further to add really. He basically elucidated ;-) with flourishes
>> what I wrote in my short, terse email I think.
>>
>> As he says "you either make easy choices and get an operationally
>> unstable environment at scale/large disturbances or you make hard
>> architectural choices & scale much better over time".
>>
>>
>> [WAJ] Easy choices doesn’t definitely get operationally unstable
>> environment(we have explained in previous mails). And would you give some
>> examples to illustrate “hard architecture but scale much better over time?”
>>
>> Examples of that are abound in systems design but it's unfortunately
>> often RFC1295 (4). As a sidenote: IETF has no intention or mechanism to
>> stop people doing unscalable, poorly designed things with their specs
>>
>>
>> [WAJ] like RIFT or flood reflector solutions in IGP?
>>
>> and that was ok as long people did not try to push them onto the whole
>> world without listening to folks who took the scar tissue to get us the
>> IETF working specs we have today which seems to have become fashionable in
>> last couple of years.
>>
>>
>> And fast flooding is a red herring here IMO, it does nothing but
>> accelerate the control loop, if the control loop is positively stable, it's
>> good, if the control loops are oscillating or start to negatively amplify
>> accelerating things just melts everything faster.
>>
>>
>> [WAJ] There is no control loop oscillation. We track only the down event.
>>
>>
>> Ultimately, having followed this "discussion" my opinion is still that if
>> authors would like to abuse IGP as "domain wide broadcast" for liveliness
>> notification the "events" draft is far less fragile and convoluted but
>> should be kept in a service instance as basically "event based BFD
>> substitute" to not start to cause head-blocking on IGP resources.
>>
>>
>> [WAJ] Seems you are not listening other person’s discussion. Please refer
>> to Acee’s comments at
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/zzaPetGzjHsu49KcyBrixQlo5G8/
>>
>> And AFAIR Robert observed it's still not a very good indication compared
>> to BFD, a good solution would be e.g. in PE case a (hierarchical) MP2MP BFD
>> PMSI (assuming UDP healthy = TCP healthy which is however far less an
>> assumption than "flooding feels transport is OK").
>>
>>
>> [WAJ] Current solutions are not aimed only the BGP overlay service, but
>> also the tunnel services. For tunnel services how you build MP2MP PMSI?
>>
>>
>> -- tony
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 22, 2021 at 7:55 AM Tony Li <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Les,
>>>
>>>
>>> The problem is that restricting the prefix length does nothing to limit
>>> the number of advertisements that get flooded.  In a high-scale situation,
>>> when there is a mass failure, it would lead to a flooding spike. That’s
>>> exactly not the time to stress the system.
>>>
>>> *[LES:] As I have stated previously, I share your concern about the
>>> behavior during massive events – and some care has to be taken to prevent
>>> making a bad situation worse.*
>>> *That said, the WG (including you and I)  is taking on enhancements to
>>> support much faster flooding – on the order of hundreds (perhaps thousands)
>>> of LSPs/second. We believe this can be done safely (though proof has not
>>> yet been established).*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And the point of doing that was to help improve IGP convergence time…
>>>
>>>
>>> *So, if you believe (as your active participation suggests) that IGPs
>>> can support faster flooding – why do you believe they cannot support
>>> liveness notification at a similar scale?*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> … not waste our time by inflating the LSDB by the same amount that we
>>> sped up flooding.
>>>
>>> Also, I don’t see how faster flooding has ANYTHING to do with it. Adding
>>> negative liveness information is primary a scale issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *I get that you consider such notifications as architecturally
>>> undesirable – we can agree to disagree on that point.*
>>> *But I don’t get why you think the IGP’s ability to handle large scale
>>> events is a showstopper in this case.*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am opposed to anything that adds to the scale of the LSDB. Doubly so
>>> if it does so during failures, when the IGP is already under stress. As you
>>> well know, making an IGP stable during normal operations is one thing.
>>> Ensuring that it is stable during worst case topological changes is quite
>>> another. Adding scale during a mass failure is pessimal timing.
>>>
>>> T
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>
> <http://www.verizon.com/>
>
> *Gyan Mishra*
>
> *Network Solutions A**rchitect *
>
> *Email [email protected] <[email protected]>*
>
>
>
> *M 301 502-1347*
>
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