Hi, Anup:

The advantage of PUA over BFD is that the operator needs not deploy o(n^2) BFD 
sessions for the services that rely on the IGP reachablity. 
Such comparisons have been discussed on the list.

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

> On Jun 18, 2022, at 12:55, Anup MalenaaDu <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> BGP uses BFD to track the remote PEs. 
> So, how does PUA really help?
> 
> To be precise, 
> 1. what are the advantages of having PUAs for IGPs 
> 2. what are the advantages for services like BGP, Tunnels, LSPs etc going 
> over IGPs
> 
> Thanks,
> Anup
> 
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 7:41 PM Voyer, Daniel 
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Gunter, see [DV]
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" 
>> <[email protected]>
>> Date: Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 6:38 AM
>> To: Robert Raszuk <[email protected]>
>> Cc: Gyan Mishra <[email protected]>, Dan Voyer <[email protected]>, 
>> "[email protected]" 
>> <[email protected]>, 
>> draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement 
>> <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" 
>> <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [EXT]RE: [Lsr] Thoughts about PUAs - are we not over-engineering?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hi Robert, Peter, Bruno
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> You wrote:
>> 
>> “Aas there is no association between node_id (perhaps loopback) and SIDs 
>> (note that egress can use many SIDs) UPA really does not signal anything 
>> about SIDs reachability or liveness. “
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Sure, but UPA signals that a locator is unreachable, would that not result 
>> for the SRv6 SID to become unreachable as well?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I understood that UPA have increased value add benefit when using with SRv6. 
>> If suddenly a locator becomes unreachable, then it I guess the associated 
>> 128 bit SIDs become unreachable too, causing an event for something to 
>> happen in the transport network to fix the problem.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> That being said, Peter makes a good point stating that UPA is not solving 
>> the problem of partitioning areas, and hence, maybe my use-case is not 
>> overly relevant.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> So progressing, an operator using ABR based summarization then there are few 
>> options:
>> 
>> No summarization at all at ABRs
>> Summarize on ABR all prefixes that can be summarized
>> Summarize all prefixes that are not associated with PEs and remain 
>> advertising individual PE addresses
>> Summarize all prefixes and use UPA’s to advertise unreachability of 
>> protected prefixes
>>  
>> 
>> [DV] if “an operator using ABR based summarization” then option 1 is out, 
>> right ? Also, option 4 is the point of this draft – but furthermore, if an 
>> aggregation device, inside a domain, is also being summarized – as the 
>> entire domain get summarized – but this agg device doesn’t have any 
>> services, because it’s an aggregation device, “then it’s up to the operator 
>> designing the network to implement” a form of policy/filter. So if that agg 
>> device reload, due to a maintenance, we don’t care about the unreachability 
>> advertisement (adding unnecessary LSP in the LSDB).
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> We all know that option 1 -3 work well and has been working well for long 
>> time. Behavior is very well understood
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> With the new option 4, to add value, applications need to get what is being 
>> referenced as ‘vendor secret sauce’ … I can already see the fun caused by 
>> inconsistent behavior and interop issues due to under specification.
>> 
>> [DV] not sure I am following your “secret sauce” point here. Following the 
>> RFC5305/RFC5308 should be clear.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The question I remain to have is if the UPA provide higher benefit as the 
>> tax it introduces. I can see operators suffer due to under specification, 
>> causing interop and inconsistent behaviors.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I agree with Bruno’s statement “If you believe that all you need is 
>> RFC5305/RFC5308 I guess this means that we don't need 
>> draft-ppsenak-lsr-igp-ureach-prefix-announce”
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> [DV] well, “draft-ppsenak-lsr-igp-ureach-prefix-announce”, is describing a 
>> use case/architecture and what you can do w/ RFC5305/RFC5308 – its 
>> “informational” 😊
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> G/
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Robert Raszuk <[email protected]> 
>> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2022 11:54 AM
>> To: Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp) <[email protected]>
>> Cc: Gyan Mishra <[email protected]>; Voyer, Daniel 
>> <[email protected]>; 
>> [email protected]; 
>> draft-wang-lsr-prefix-unreachable-annoucement 
>> <[email protected]>; [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Thoughts about PUAs - are we not over-engineering?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Gunter,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> (1) Multiple-ABRs
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I was wondering for example if a ingress router receives a PUA signaling 
>> that a given locator becomes unreachable, does that actually really signals 
>> that the SID ‘really’ is unreachable for a router?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Aas there is no association between node_id (perhaps loopback) and SIDs 
>> (note that egress can use many SIDs) UPA really does not signal anything 
>> about SIDs reachability or liveness. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  For example (simple design to illustrate the corner-case):
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> ingressPE#1---area#1---ABR#1---area---ABR#2---area#3---egressPE#2
>> 
>>      |                                                      |
>> 
>>      |                                                      |
>> 
>>      +--------area#1---ABR#3---area---ABR#4---area#3--------+
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> What if ABR#4 would loose connectivity to egressPE#2 and ABR#2 does not?
>> 
>> In that case ABR#4 will originate a UPA/PUA and ABR#2 does not originate a 
>> PUA/UPA.
>> 
>> How is ingressPE#1 supposed to handle this situation? The only thing 
>> ingressPE#1 see is that suddenly there is a PUA/UPA but reachability may not 
>> have changed at all and remains perfectly reacheable.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Valid case. But PE1 should only switch when alternative backup path exists. 
>> If there is a single path it should do nothing in any case of receiving UPA. 
>> We have discussed that case before and as you know the formal answer was 
>> "out of scope" or "vendor's secret sauce" :). 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The justification here is that switching to healthy backup is better then 
>> continue using perhaps semi-sick path. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> R.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> External Email: Please use caution when opening links and attachments / 
>> Courriel externe: Soyez prudent avec les liens et documents joints
>> 
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