Jari,
Your comments about LTSP-4.2 are understandable, and I'll attempt to
shed some light on where my head is at with all this LTSP-4.2, LTSP-5 stuff.
LTSP-4.2 is built in a way that makes it impossible to integrate into a
distro. In fact, like Scott pointed out in another message, it IS a
distro. Other distros just can't use it. They've all got their package
management systems and support mechanisms. They aren't keen on adopting
a whole slew of packages that don't fit into their framework.
So, we came up with the MueKow spec, which is an entirely different way
to build LTSP. Lots of info about that on the MueKow wiki page.
Over 2 years ago, Mark Shuttleworth approached me, because he wanted
LTSP to be integrated into Ubuntu. We had the specifications and the
"thin client know-how" and he had the resources.
Starting over from the beginning is hard work. Especially when you have
to do it in 6-month release cycles. You can't make major changes. You
can only bite off what can be chewed in that short amount of time. The
result so far has been something that works, but it's not quite as
full-featured as LTSP-4.2. I really thought it would happen alot
faster, but, as I've seen, these things take time.
In fact, LTSP-4.2 was so good, I was pretty disappointed with early
releases of LTSP-5. It was pretty hard to get excited about it. But,
I've been working with the Ubuntu guys continuously, and it's definately
getting better.
There's still a number of issues with LTSP-5. Including:
- It's only in Debian and Ubuntu.
Fedora is trying to work on it, but I'm not sure
they've been able to commit the necessary resources to it.
There's been some Opensuse/LTSP activity lately, but I'm
not sure how far they've gotten.
We do have tarballs on the download page that can be
installed on any distro, but you miss out on some of
the functionality, like local devices and audio.
- Boot time is slow. We're sitting in Sevilla, Spain right
this very minute, working on the boot speed issue. It's a
serious problem and we've got 5 guys looking at it.
- Running X over SSH is slow. There's a huge tradeoff between
security and Performance. We're working on various ways of
having both.
There's more, but those are the big ones.
Each release gets better, and I'm confident that in another release or
two, LTSP-5 will be up to par with what people have found in LTSP-4.2.
Meanwhile, LTSP-4.2 is still out there, and people are using it. While
it is possible that someone could take over maintainership of the
LTSP-4.2 codebase, I think it's just not the right way to go. I'm
talking from a purely technical point of view. If there were someone
who wanted to take it over, I wouldn't have a problem with it at all.
LTSP-4.2 has been fairly stable for quite a while. But, i'm not
entirely opposed to putting out a minor update, to handle some of the
latest hardware that is out there. It's quite easy to build a new
kernel package. In fact, I've already built a 2.6.20.9 kernel, I just
need to do some more testing of it. I'd consider offering that as a
package on the LTSP package repository.
As for bigger changes, take Xorg for example, that would be a HUGE
undertaking, to get the latest Xorg into LTSP-4.x. The problem is, the
version of X.org that is in LTSP now, is 6.9.0. That release was the
last 'Monolithic' build of Xorg. Newer versions use the modular build,
and it would take a massive effort to set that up within the LBE. I just
don't have the time to tackle that project at this time. But, if
someone else wanted to take a stab at getting it built within LBE, I'd
definitely consider putting it out as an official package in LTSP. If
anyone is interested, lets talk about that.
Meanwhile, we're going to continue putting our efforts behind LTSP-5,
because we believe it's the right approach to getting Thin clients into
all distros. If you have any contacts at your favorite distro, and they
haven't integrated LTSP-5, then please contact them, and see if you can
apply some pressure.
Jim McQuillan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Jari Turkia wrote:
> Andrew Ziem wrote:
>>> Official support for LTSP 4.2 is pretty much gone.
>>>
>> Any interest in compiling the latest X.org for LTSP 4.2? Probably not,
>> but I had to ask. :)
>>
>>
> I can relate to what you're experiencing with your Dells. I'm running a
> few HP:s and they have similar symptoms on various issues.
>
> This is IMHO / two cents worth / you-can-ignore-my-mad-blabbering:
> 4.2 to 5.0 is way too big jump. 5.0 requires some level of support in
> the distro itself. The support may come from distro vendor or from a 3rd
> party. Ok, Ubuntu/Debian is the most popular distro there is, but what
> about rest 70% of us? The guys at LTSP are doing a great job, but this
> current development of "must-have-Ubuntu" makes me wanna spit!
> End-of-mad-blabbering.
>
> The only reasonable thing to do is to extend support for 4.2 somehow.
> Project's resources are tied up into 5.0 so, the only viable thing would
> be to create a spin-off project. This, however, is likely to fail due to
> lack of developer interest. A working community is required and building
> one is not that easy.
>
> In my imagination a spin-off LTSP 4.3 could be done if at least five
> able and willing developers could be found to collaborate. That would mean:
> - improving already abandoned LBE (the LTSP build environment /
> cross-compiler)
> - making LBE to run on GCC 4.x
> - upgrading LBE parts, glibc, binutils
> - making LBE run properly on various distros Ubuntu / RHEL / Fedora /
> SuSE / Gentoo / etc.
> - upgrading LTSP software
> - latest X, latest kernel, latest Perl, latest Samba, latest <name
> your favorite part>
>
> I¨m not calling a mutiny here. This does not mean any disrespect to
> project or developers and their decisions. All I'm saying is that I
> cannot go to the direction they're pointing to and there is pretty much
> nothing I can do about it.
>
> Regards,
> Jari Turkia
>
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