Thanks for your critical as well as nice remarks. I take all remarks as they come but as they are quite personal, I will not reflect on them on-list.
Some short remarks though: - I was not pointing to anyone in particular, not you and not Mark, but tried to pinpoint a general trend. - I did not want to play a wilting violet but wanted to indicate that the discussions on the list have gone in a particular direction that leaves increasingly less space for the 'FOSS crusaders'. I do not know whether this is good or bad. - I regret that you bring the explorer/development/.... discussion into play. That was not necessary. V On Wed, Oct 12, 2011 at 9:41 AM, Paul Bagyenda <[email protected]> wrote: > Eh, but Victor you are too big a man, with measurable contributions to the > development of OSS and this country, to start playing wilting violet (a.k.a. > "[I] feel alone"). And equally you are too intelligent a man to make such a > false leap as to term what is a normal desire for self advancement > "egocentric". Surely man wants improve his quality of life, does he not? > Surely even when you talk about "sustainability" and "development" you are > talking about improving the lot of people. How can it be bad/wrong for Mark > to want to use his money that he works for to improve himself as he sees > best? > > I have flogged my case for balance in this battle between the Jobsians > and the Stallmanites to death, so I will not go there any more, except to > say that lets not behave like men who meet in a bar and start talking about > their wives, and the one gets so annoyed and starts a fight, because all > the others refuse to agree that his wife is the most beautiful in the world! > If he thinks she is, that's fine, until he starts trying to impose that > view, evidence no matter, on the rest. > > And since you've been here (Uganda) long enough, and I truly believe you > have made great, measurable contributions to our development, I will tell > you what grates. Latter-day HM Stanleys. These ride in like they are here > to save the natives from themselves. Like their 19th century forbears, they > have an active disdain for the history and cultural context of the place, > and they try to make up for their gaps by talking loudest and disregarding > facts or logic (even in their own presentations). Except that this is the > 21st century. Where we are far more educated in the ways of the wider world, > and can tell Bovine Remains from the real thing. Actually, even the real HM > Stanley found here well-developed societies and a people well in command of > their environments. For that matter, people who understood (for instance) > antiseptic surgical methods well before his own people did. But of course > extreme left-brainedness did not allow his kind to understand that world, so > instead they tried to arbitrarily reshape it. > > But, I digress. > > If you want to turn your entire life into a crusade, more power to you. But > surely it is a little pompous to demand that all do the same, in every > detail. (Moreover for something as mundane as IT.) I am an OSS man. > Verifiably so. But I will state here, clearly, when I think the Evil Empire > (a.k.a Microsoft, Apple, Oracle, etc.) has gotten things right. And when > OSS has done a terrible job, I will say so. I don't want to become a drone, > for one cause/empire or the other. > > P. > > On Oct 11, 2011, at 20:04, Victor van Reijswoud wrote: > > What a sad and at the same time egocentric conclusion: "Everybody wants a > better quality of life for *themselves*" (emphasis on "themselves"). I > have always operated, and spent the last 10 years promoting Linux and open > source, under the impression that there is more than just the greedy > individual. There is a need to develop a nation, a continent and a majority > of people that cannot afford gadgets. They needs access to information and > data manipulations tools to move to the next level in development. > > Like Reinier, appropriateness and sustainability have been my drivers (see > also my publications in the area). Openness is an other important driver > (see also my book on FOSS4D). Apple technology is not sustainable nor open > (moreover, increasingly closed over the past years) and disqualifies as an > appropriate development tool. > > I still believe that open software, open data and affordable hardware are > the way forward for development, but I increasingly feel alone (especially > on this list). > > V > > > > On Tue, Oct 11, 2011 at 5:04 AM, Mark Tinka <[email protected]>wrote: > >> On Friday, October 07, 2011 05:59:20 PM Reinier Battenberg >> wrote: >> >> > somehow, in our local market, you would hope things like >> > 'appropriateness' or 'cost' or the classic >> > 'sustainability' would play a bigger factor when people >> > choose their toolbox. >> >> Everybody wants a better quality of life for themselves, >> regardless of economic or social circumstances. Most people >> can only wish, but they'll seize an opportunity as soon as >> it drops. >> >> Mark. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug >> >> Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: >> [email protected] >> Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >> Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug >> To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug >> >> The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: >> http://www.infocom.co.ug/ >> >> The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including >> attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in >> any way. >> > > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. > > > > _______________________________________________ > The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug > > Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: > [email protected] > Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ > Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug > To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug > > The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: > http://www.infocom.co.ug/ > > The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including > attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in > any way. >
_______________________________________________ The Uganda Linux User Group: http://linux.or.ug Send messages to this mailing list by addressing e-mails to: [email protected] Mailing list archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ Mailing list settings: http://kym.net/mailman/listinfo/lug To unsubscribe: http://kym.net/mailman/options/lug The Uganda LUG mailing list is generously hosted by INFOCOM: http://www.infocom.co.ug/ The above comments and data are owned by whoever posted them (including attachments if any). The mailing list host is not responsible for them in any way.
